Clefairy Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 i don't really agree, i will still play heavy come the following weeks.really, you just can't sit in one place, always move...best thing you can do as a heavy. don't just sit and spindown. Spinning down to re-locate is somewhat impractical while there are people still alive and shooting at you at mid-range, in my opinion. Long range is fine; the falloff makes most weapons do insignificant damage, and if it's a sniper you're probably dead anyway without support. Close-up combat resolves itself expediently enough, again making the issue irrelevant. Mid-range is where the problem lies. Being a Heavy, you can at best find cover and try to escape from there, because your fat behind isn't outrunning anybody. And my point about the class spam stands. Your team, being both imperfect and unaccustomed to this new form of opposition, cannot and will not get all the snipers/spies. You will die. You will die more often, possibly significantly more often. It is mathematically inevitable.
Hemophiliac Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 take note my heavy has NO mid-range because i do not use a shotgun. always better to move rather than shoot with the minigun and hope that you hit. also my definition of mid-range is probably larger then yours.
Clefairy Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 take note my heavy has NO mid-range because i do not use a shotgun. always better to move rather than shoot with the minigun and hope that you hit. also my definition of mid-range is probably larger then yours. Fair enough. The problem I take with that scenario is that to any competent player, it will be obvious what you are doing. And if they know you're already hurt or tactically vulnerable, they will push forward and kill you. Of course, we're discussing this in a vacuum without any regard for how well, or how poorly, our hypothetical Heavy and his opponent are being supported by their respective teams. However, in my experience with the pub-hoppers we get, support/teamwork is badly lacking all around.
Bleck Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 the minigun should do much more damage at a distance - if you think about it, the heavy is just a bigger, slower pyro, which is kind of terrible
zircon Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Well... the point of the Heavy is also that he has a ton of HP. He has way more than a Pyro. It's hard to kill a Heavy even with direct pipe bombs/rockets, especially if they know what they're doing. You NEED to focus fire them, whereas a Pyro is pretty light in comparison. Furthermore, the Minigun is way more powerful than the flamer and at least CAN hit at farther than very short ranges.
Powerlord Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Well... the point of the Heavy is also that he has a ton of HP. He has way more than a Pyro. This is exactly why Valve removed the +50 HP bonus from the backburner... it upset this balance.
Tensei Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 IMO: close-range = Everything the flamethrower covers. mid-range = One end of the bridge at 2fort to the other. long-range = Distance between the 2fort Sniper balconies. That said, the miniguns effectiveness extends well into mid-range, though of course there's a huge drop-off in damage. Comparing the heavy to a pyro is pretty lol because apart from the fact that both are combat classes, and both are at their best at close range, they should be played completely differently. Again, mid-range minigun still does significant damage and only soldiers/demo's who know what they're doing will consistently outperform heavies at this range. Like Zircon said, the heavy, especially when paired with a medic, is a huge damage sponge, and IMO also has a partial role of drawing away some of the enemy fire. The Heavy + Medic combo should be the 'mobile command post' around which the rest of the team should focus. A pyro's relative nimbleness suggests that he's meant to be more of an ambush/shock class, so he really does not play as a heavy at all.
The Derrit Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 some stuff Clefairy is a sweet tag. You're officially cool in my book
Clefairy Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Hm... You know, watching Meet the Spy again, Heavy busts out a shoulder charge to break down the door to the intel room. There's a first-person shot immediately after that which makes it pretty obvious he's spun up. Yeah, yeah I know. Rule of Cool. But still. A temporary speed boost with the ability to spin up while you're running could definitely allow him to close the distance and apply himself optimally. It would also require a new keybind and could very well make the number of Heavies or Heavy/Medic pairs a given team can field the deciding factor in any match. Still, interesting to consider. Edit: hahaha, thanks Derrit.
Abyss Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I was looking at the Blue's giant announcement board thing, and I noticed something... Red Spy is on there twice. Look one row down and two columns to the left from the lit up Red Spy, and there's another one!
Powerlord Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I was looking at the Blue's giant announcement board thing, and I noticed something... Red Spy is on there twice. Look one row down and two columns to the left from the lit up Red Spy, and there's another one! It seems he is not the only Spy!
Abyss Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Anybody want to work for Valve? Now would be the time. They have 500 openings.
BardicKnowledge Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I found that FaN for Scout does still have a useful purpose -- allows for defensive harassment and spy-assisting. Just finished playing, and knocked a few pyros into the waiting knife of our spy...clears the point nicely in a pinch also (though admittedly not nearly as good as pyro's airblast).
Abyss Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Huh, I hadn't thought about using the FaN for that purpose. I've only used it to either keep enemies away from me, or to push them into some environmental hazard... like a ten meter tall ghost. I'll have to keep a closer eye on my teammates when I'm scouting now.
Abyss Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Say, I just noticed that the Escapist Magazine is holding a TF2 tournament on the 27th. Five person teams, the 22nd is the last day to sign up. I'm thinking that OCR could make a showing there, I'm sure we could get two or three teams in the tournament. I know we have some good players...
Vahn_Paktu Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 Also no unlocks. [ZUZ] will be trying to set a team up. If anyone wants to practice, Wish still has a server up so give us a ring if you want to scrim on it. We'll set it up for you. Its empty constantly.
Nekofrog Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I wouldn't mind getting in on some team stuff, but iono if I'm good enough
FireSlash Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 For those who missed it in IRC, I've thrown up a working psychostats install here: http://ocrstats.fireslash.net/ This covers all of the server logs, so it should be historically accurate, but it might differ from hlstats in ranking as the calculations are probably different. Anyway, check it out, let me know if you love/hate it.
Bahamut Posted May 19, 2009 Author Posted May 19, 2009 Is there a way to alter the calculation of stats? I had the stats calculation altered with HLStatsX because there were complaints that it shouldn't count for new people unless they became regulars for sure.
Random Hajile Posted May 19, 2009 Posted May 19, 2009 I'll be playing a good bit of this soon . Added server to favorites
Bahamut Posted May 19, 2009 Author Posted May 19, 2009 Add me to friends when you see me sometime on the server, so I can add you to the reserved slots then.
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