Powerlord Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Problem is how can you improve the scout's arsenal? Also the slingshot sapper is an awesome idea now that I think about it. It would make engineers need to rethink their positions of sentries. Well, if it didn't remove their disguise, it'd make it much easier to sap things even in a small space like 2Fort's intel room. Right now, the wrench is the Engie's best defense against Spies... other than having other players (Pyros!) around. Also Engie's should get an upgrade that replaces a Dispenser with an anti-spy radar. It won't show exact positions, would just beep faster as a spy approached. That'd be great. I do wonder what they could replace the teleporters with, though... maybe a special teleporter exit that you could give to someone else to place... but you couldn't capture points or intel while carrying it. Maybe a two-way teleporter that takes longer than normal to recharge... However, since all the building upgrades would be unlocked via the same achievement, either they'd all change at once, or have only one of them change. Actually, I think they should just switch a wrench upgrade for a second building upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tensei Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Engies really don't need anything to help them against spies. Seriously, spies have a hard enough time taking down sentries as is, despite it being one of their intended roles (or they wouldn't have the sapper), why the HELL would you buff engies against them? The much needed tweak for engies is to make them more viable as a serious offensive class; I'd love to see a throwable (able to stick on walls), instantly deployable, unupgradable level 1 turret as an alternative to the standard turrets. A jump pad/spring would be great as a replacement for the teleporter (would allow your team to get to positions that aren't normally reachable) As for the scout, something along the lines of an assault rifle (effective at mid-range, similar to the sniper SMG, but more accurate and powerful) would be a great tweak IMO because it would allow scouts to be more effective/playable in crowded, spammy maps, where it becomes really hard to get close to people without dying. Something like a health detector (lol, scouter), that's able to show health bars of the enemy team would make a nice replacement for the pistol and, again, tweak the role of the scout a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted October 13, 2008 Author Share Posted October 13, 2008 Spies need a building disguise (that dispenser is a spy!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerol Oplan Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I've heard speculation that the spy and engi updates are to come out concurrently, each with an upgrade that counters the other (for example a throwable sapper vs. a sapper-removing pistol), since upgrading one class without the other would result in a huge imbalance between the updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgeCrusher Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Is there any way to mod the rtv set up to where you can't rtv like, as soon as you start the round of a new map? I've played 2fort about 10 times today, cause that seems like that's all thats on the server. Finally join and get to play cave for 1 minute, rtv fags put it on 2fort again. Seriously. There should at least be a minimum play time per map before people can vote it out, unless an admin changes it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushfire Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Edge, I assure you that if I were playing, Cave would be played until the round was over. I have no regard for people who want to play 2Fort forever cause that map kinda blows after about 1 round. Not enough people have gotten on the "Cyberpunk-but-low-gravity-Matrix-Morpheus-jumping-scout-bat-battle" bandwagon yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Agent Man Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Additionally, you should not be able to vote for a map that the server just switched from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I doubt either the Spy or the Engy update will create any balance issues. After all, did the Medic, Heavy or Pyro packs (minus the overpowered Backburner which was fixed) create balance issues? No. Half the time I don't even use the weapon "upgrades" because they're mor like sidegrades or alternatives. Generally Valve doesn't make items that are obvious switches over existing ones, unless they are very situational - eg. the Axtinguisher or Ubersaw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xerol Oplan Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I doubt either the Spy or the Engy update will create any balance issues. After all, did the Medic, Heavy or Pyro packs (minus the overpowered Backburner which was fixed) create balance issues? No. Half the time I don't even use the weapon "upgrades" because they're mor like sidegrades or alternatives. Generally Valve doesn't make items that are obvious switches over existing ones, unless they are very situational - eg. the Axtinguisher or Ubersaw. No, but none of those classes has a synergy with any other particular class like the spy and engineer do. The only thing that even comes close so far is the Ubersaw which isn't really useful enough to change the game. I can't think of a way they can upgrade either of these classes without changing the game dynamic in some way, and at the same time making the upgrades something people will want to get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 lol at the building disguises, I'd love to see a dispenser running across the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vivi22 Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Argh. Tried playing just now and I keep getting massive lag spikes that make the game unplayable for me. I can't be arsed to try and figure it out at this time of night. If I'm lucky maybe it'll fix itself by morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensai Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I'd like to point out to whoever suggested that these updates are imbalancing...I think it was Xerol...that they're not really. They're updates, not improvements. Valve's making it so that you're given more choice in your weapon arsenal, not given weapon upgrades. Sure, some of them are obvious winners (axtinguisher, ubersaw) but others...well, the original's probably better (normal flamethrower, Sasha). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 That'd be sweet if we got them both at once though, and think about it... "Gentlemen..." "Git along there, little doggies" There's gotta be something to that. What about a sapper that works with line of sight within a range, but has a warmup time and if you ever break aim with the object you have to start over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushfire Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I don't know about the starting over bit, but I am all for the warming up, Line-of-Sight, distance sap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 That'd be sweet if we got them both at once though, and think about it... "Gentlemen..." "Git along there, little doggies" There's gotta be something to that.What about a sapper that works with line of sight within a range, but has a warmup time and if you ever break aim with the object you have to start over? Yeah, I'd read about something like that before. Someone was saying it should take a while for you to sap and you can't move while you're doing it. The only problem with that is: how do Engies counteract a distance sap? It's not as simple as whacking a sapper off with a wrench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Secret Agent Man Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 If a spy can't move, he's screwed. Killing a spy is easy enough, but would be shooting fish in a barrel if he couldn't move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushfire Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 They would just have to look around for the Pyro or whatever looking right at the Sentry that is dying and go kill them. I bet if the distance sapper will have the look of one of those satellite dish microphone things like in all those spy movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottus and Gyes Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I'd like to see a knife upgrade where it helps charge your stealth bar with every successful backstab you make. Ubersaw-esque. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 With the distance sap, you would just need a really good hiding spot and hope that there are enough oblivious enemies around to help your cover. Maybe the sapping would only be noticable to the engineer on his display or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensai Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 @ Cottus&Gyes: That....is an amazing idea. I really really like it. But what would be the negative thing to it? A slower stab speed? Perhaps it's ALWAYS that long backstab animation (that sucks and should die)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brushfire Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I agree Zeph. I think a neat negative thing that would be a huge blood spatter that causes the spy to be seen via a bright red silhouette around a cloaked spy. "Promise not to bleed on me and I will make you death quick..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 Blood splatter eh? kinda defeat the purpose of having more cloak... By the way everyone, the next version: ctp_epsilon_a3 will probably be finished by tonight, I made some rather large changes... Made it smaller, Took out most of the secret passages, nobuilded cp and flag spots added more ways into the cp rearranged the map to put a focus on getting the cp first, then the flag so teams don't get split up. changed the water area to be a 1 way depending on who has the point. Added a little text pop up that tells people to read the instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottus and Gyes Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I would say a slower stab or for every miss it takes away xx% of your cloak. At first I was thinking of like a 20-50% damage reduction for non-backstabs but, stabbing people head on is pretty stupid to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Powerlord Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I would say a slower stab or for every miss it takes away xx% of your cloak.At first I was thinking of like a 20-50% damage reduction for non-backstabs but, stabbing people head on is pretty stupid to begin with. Slower stab? Only if the long backstab animation is removed on the regular knife in the process. It's sad that it's faster to stab while moving towards someone and still get a backstab kill than if I actually try to backstab them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zephyr Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I just finished uploading ctp_epsilon_a3, Download: http://forums.tf2maps.net/downloads.php?do=file&id=709 Thread: http://forums.tf2maps.net/showthread.php?t=4019 Hopefully we can try it out on the server sometime. Let me know what you think if you try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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