Can Video Games Be Art?

[TheSnowStorm]

An . . .interesting video that compares how movies struggle to be an art form back during the 1920s, just like video games is struggling to be an art form in these days.

(inb4theinfamousflamewarsofvideogamescanbeartthread)

[glasfen]

Absolutely. Video games by their very nature are an art form. Whether or not they meet the definition of "high art" is a matter of opinion.

Of course, video games have not been around for very long and suffer from much more limited exposure than film and music. As gaming progresses and is made more easily available to the masses, there will probably be an effort to produce games for the sake of "art" rather than simple fun. Not that this hasn't been attempted before, but I do not think it is as rampant as in film or other media.

But where does one find the balance between art and fun? Is it counterproductive to create "artistic" games if they are not as fun as simpler, less cerebral titles? Or can it be justified for the sake of art?

[JH Sounds]

Yay, another games-as-art thread.

[Gollgagh]

Yay, another games-as-art thread.

I was gonna link the other one, but decided against it.

[relyanCe]

Absolutely.But where does one find the balance between art and fun? Is it counterproductive to create "artistic" games if they are not as fun as simpler, less cerebral titles? Or can it be justified for the sake of art?

Play Shadow of the Colossus. Art and Fun got married in that game.

[Zombie]

Games can be art. Are they always? No.

[TheSnowStorm]

Yay, another games-as-art thread.

I was gonna link the other one, but decided against it.

That's the reason why I had this: (inb4theinfamousflamewarsofvideogamescanbeartthread)

[Gollgagh]

how is this thread different from that one

[cobaltstarfire]

It's just the annual can games be art thread...I'm sure there's more than one other cause I think one of these things pop up yearly.

I don't really know why though, it's one of those arguments that can never be won by either side. I suppose people like to argue that which is futile though huh.

I think Games and Art are like a ven diagram, you can have games, and you can have art, and they can overlap and be games that are art.

[Avatar of Justice]

To me, there are several kinds of art. For the sake of my argument, I will cite two. First, there is art that comes together in a consistent, cohesive whole that has nothing extraneous and only beauty. Second, would be anything that touches you emotionally. They aren't mutually exclusive. For me, a video game that qualifies on the first criteria would be Shadow of the Colossus, an oft-cited arty game. There is definitely emotion involved, but what I like about it is how its music, gameplay, and subdued storyline come together to make a game where I can't point at anything in it and say "that shouldn't have been there." A game that qualifies on the second level for me would be Final Fantasy X, a game which moved me, but may well not have moved you. It's form is not necessarily perfect, but I was still touched by it.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

It's funny how you should post this after I start playing Braid...

[TheHands]

http://www.ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=16935

My piece was said in this one.

[Schwaltzvald]

Games are always artistic as, imo, it takes a certain passion to create them; especially from scratch

I would even classify the DOOM series as an example of it. Shadow of the Colossus and Okami are excellent examples of art + gaming combined.

Okami

Shadow of the Colossus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGO5XEjEp_M&feature=related

Both very different artstyles, yet both are amazing.

[Dhsu]

Well, according to Mr. Portnow we just need more boobies.

[lazygecko]

There is no art. It's just an abstract label.

[Cottus and Gyes]

The more realistic a game becomes, the less artistic it is.

[lazygecko]

Somewhere, a social realism artist is rolling in his grave.

[Bleck]

Anyone who's played ICO knows that the answer is yes.

[Salluz]

An . . .interesting video that compares how movies struggle to be an art form back during the 1920s, just like video games is struggling to be an art form in these days.

(inb4theinfamousflamewarsofvideogamescanbeartthread)

Common sense, people... creativity + effort = art.

[audio fidelity]

Hideo Kojima: 'Games Are Not Art' By Kris Graft

In the February 2006 issue of the Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine, Metal Gear creator Hideo Kojima touches on everything from being a latch-key kid to how games aren't art. The interview, conducted by James Mielke, exhibited many non-gaming aspects of the the man responsible for the Metal Gear series, such as his taste in music, books and movies, but he also gave his opinion on the artistic side of games creation.

According to Kojima, one main reason games aren't art is because videogames are meant to appeal to a much wider range of people than a piece of art. Where an artist is looking to connect with that one special person, videogames are made to be more accessible to more people.

"I don't think they're art either, videogames," he said, referring to Roger Ebert's recent commentary on the same subject. "The thing is, art is something that radiates the artist, the person who creates that piece of art. If 100 people walk by and a single person is captivated by whatever that piece radiates, it's art. But videogames aren't trying to capture one person. A videogame should make sure that all 100 people that play that game should enjoy the service provided by that videogame. It's something of a service. It's not art. But I guess the way of providing service with that videogame is an artistic style, a form of art."

He continued, "For example, look at a concept car. You don't have to be able to drive a car, but if it's called a car and it has artistic elements in the visuals, then it's art. But an actual car, like a videogame, is interactive, so it's something used by people, so it's like a car where you have to drive it. There are 100 people driving a car; they have 100 ways of driving it and using it. It could be families driving the car. It could be a couple driving a car. The owner of the car could be driving along the coastline or they could go up into the mountains, so this car has to be able to be driven by all 100 of these people, so in that sense, it's totally not art."

While Kojima said that games as a whole aren't art, he did say that games do incorporate art. "Art is the stuff you find in the museum, whether it be a painting or a statue. What I'm doing, what videogame creators are doing, is running the museum--how do we light up things, where do we place things, how do we sell tickets? It's basically running the museum for those who come to the museum to look at the art. For better or worse, what I do, Hideo Kojima, myself, is run the museum and also create the art that's displayed in the museum."

[Strike911]

why must we endure another games as art thread?

We all have an opinion, but in the big scheme of things it just doesn't matter right now.

Video games as art. It's just another speculative non-issue for academics to argue about endlessly, then submit their theories to the masses to stir up more speculative non-issues just so that they can keep a job making wild conjecture that will get them in a book one day.

Don't let people tell you what art is... because at that point, your going against the actual nature and subjectivity of the term.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

I think we need more posts proving how warped Kojima has been lately.

[Kenobio]

There is only been one game in the history of videogames that can really be considered art.

[Devyn]

"Can video games be art?" That is the crappiest question. Art is just a small piece of video games. Art is a fraction of what makes a video game great. Video games don't strive to be art. It's the other way around. Art should try to be more like video games, then I might actually give a shit about art.

[TheSnowStorm]

Hideo Kojima: 'Games Are Not Art' By Kris Graft

In the February 2006 issue of the Official U.S. PlayStation Magazine, Metal Gear creator Hideo Kojima touches on everything from being a latch-key kid to how games aren't art. The interview, conducted by James Mielke, exhibited many non-gaming aspects of the the man responsible for the Metal Gear series, such as his taste in music, books and movies, but he also gave his opinion on the artistic side of games creation.

According to Kojima, one main reason games aren't art is because videogames are meant to appeal to a much wider range of people than a piece of art. Where an artist is looking to connect with that one special person, videogames are made to be more accessible to more people.

"I don't think they're art either, videogames," he said, referring to Roger Ebert's recent commentary on the same subject. "The thing is, art is something that radiates the artist, the person who creates that piece of art. If 100 people walk by and a single person is captivated by whatever that piece radiates, it's art. But videogames aren't trying to capture one person. A videogame should make sure that all 100 people that play that game should enjoy the service provided by that videogame. It's something of a service. It's not art. But I guess the way of providing service with that videogame is an artistic style, a form of art."

He continued, "For example, look at a concept car. You don't have to be able to drive a car, but if it's called a car and it has artistic elements in the visuals, then it's art. But an actual car, like a videogame, is interactive, so it's something used by people, so it's like a car where you have to drive it. There are 100 people driving a car; they have 100 ways of driving it and using it. It could be families driving the car. It could be a couple driving a car. The owner of the car could be driving along the coastline or they could go up into the mountains, so this car has to be able to be driven by all 100 of these people, so in that sense, it's totally not art."

While Kojima said that games as a whole aren't art, he did say that games do incorporate art. "Art is the stuff you find in the museum, whether it be a painting or a statue. What I'm doing, what videogame creators are doing, is running the museum--how do we light up things, where do we place things, how do we sell tickets? It's basically running the museum for those who come to the museum to look at the art. For better or worse, what I do, Hideo Kojima, myself, is run the museum and also create the art that's displayed in the museum."

You know, I find it funny that everyone didn't go into a shitstorm when Kojima stated that video games isn't art, but when Robert says that it ain't everyone wants to get upset!