The Road to Becoming a VG Composer.

[Blur]

Hey everyone, I just had a question that has been bugging me for quite sometime now, and I figured the OCRemix could answer it, ^^. Just as the title says, how does someone prepare or train or whatever to try to get a career as a video game music composer?

I understand the given like always trying to compose better things, learn many instruments as well as software; but I really don't get what else to do. Should you go get a degree in music and try to apply to many different companies? Should you go get a degree in something video game specific like 3D modeling or animation, then get a job in a video game company, and finally try to get into music at the industry? I always have little questions like these, but I'm never really sure which is the right answer, or the best way to go.

I've read that article about the composer for the Banjo Kazooie and Viva Pinata! games, and he stated he got in by chance really. I understand that it was probably easier back then getting into the gaming industry like that, but today is a totally different story.

Another thing that concerns me is that I don't even think I can live up to you guys here, D=. I'm already 17 years old, and I can't even work my way near the top of the fan music tower. The only place I have some recognition is at the Sonic Stadium. However, I don't really think that complaining about my current standing is going to get me anywhere, ^^".

So, to the point, can anyone please help me out here? Even if no one is quite sure, I'm possitive anything would help me better myself for my goal in life. Thanks for taking the time to read this and help me out, =D.

-Blur

[OverCoat]

Friends on the inside are the most important qualification for the more artistic careers

Also you're still like 17. Jeremy Soule may have been 17 when he did Secret of Evermore but most people have a long way to go. Good that you're thinking ahead though!

[big giant circles]

Another thing that concerns me is that I don't even think I can live up to you guys here, D=. I'm only 17 years old, and I can't even work my way near the top of the fan music tower.

Fixed that sentence for you.

Man, 17 is young, bro. I'm 27. Most of us here are probably in our 20's. Don't talk like you're at the end of the tunnel yet, you've still got plenty of time to cram knowledge and experience into your head. Do as much of that as you can now before other life obligations start cutting into your time to pursue the knowledge and skills of composing.

[DrumUltimA]

when i was 17 years old, I didn't know the first thing about making music digitally. 4 years later, I see some major results and get some remixes posted here. A lot can happen in a small amount of time--and you have a lot of time!

Anyway, the answers to this question I hear a lot include "make all the contacts you can", "take whatever job you can", etc. But if you're looking to hone your skills, you can take either the formal composition route or the music producer route.

This website right here is an excellent place to learn about the digital production of music--it's where I learned everything I know. Post works-in-progress for feedback, join #ocremix and #ocrwip for help in realtime in irc (irc.enterthegame.com), read the judges decisions to get an idea of what a site like this looks for production-wise... all of these things helped me tremendously. If you're thinking about colleges, there are schools out there with good production programs... I know zircon's had a lot of success over at Drexel in Philly.

As for composition solely, another site that could be of help is http://www.youngcomposers.com . Whereas we're all about mp3s and phat beats, they're more about midis, scores, and other classically-inclined (but not strictly classical) errata. As for schools, going to school for composition isn't a bad idea--just make sure you do indeed like classical/orchestral music or else you might get miserable But I have many composer friends at my school who are going on to get film, and even video game composing gigs.

But I'm not the best person to ask. There are a few professional composers about the site. Hopefully Wingless will find this thread soon!

[TheSnowStorm]

17, huh? Wow, I'm 19. Scary.

Right now, since you're young, I say start building a package of your works and start getting into some software and composing. Also, it's not a bad idea to do some networking.

[Blur]

Hmm, I always thought I should know a lot more at the point, D=. I mean, I don't every little thing about multiple programs, but I know a fair amount at this point I think. Thanks for the support though, I didn't realize that a lot of you guys were older. I always figured a large majority was around 15-21 actually, ^^".

And another thing, does it really matter what kind of music composing you do? It seems like a large majority of the internet does all their stuff digitally on programs like Cubase or Fruity Loops, however, I make most of my music with instruments like the electric guitar, electric bass, and keyboards. I do use Garageband to put all my stuff together, along with this plug-in called EZdrummer for a realistic drum kit, but it seems like GarageBand is a begginers' tool. I used to use Fruity Loops 7 before I switched to my new Mac, but GarageBand is my only option at the moment now. I wish I could afford Logic Studio, ^^".

And I'll check out that youngcomposers.com site tomorrow, since I need to be getting to bed right now, but thanks for sharing that, =D. I'm more than positive it'll help me, ^^.

[Eino Keskitalo]

Dude, don't worry if your software you are already successfully using to create music is "professional" enough. I tried to switch from trackers to Cubase a few years ago with such false motivation, and I felt that was a part of why I didn't make a lot of music on a computer for years. I didn't really have the motivation to properly learn Cubase, but thought I should have it. I sort of lost the joy, and the result was just unnecessary, stupid guilt from imagined external reasons. And now I'm already 25. Hehe. Sorry about the rant, but I hope that helps somehow. Happily around the same time I got active with playing in a band and songwriting so it wasn't a total loss for me.

Just have fun and experiment. Learn as you go. Push yourself if it works for you, but don't worry. Worrying equals death.

--Eino

[Lie Mf B]

And another thing, does it really matter what kind of music composing you do? It seems like a large majority of the internet does all their stuff digitally on programs like Cubase or Fruity Loops, however, I make most of my music with instruments like the electric guitar, electric bass, and keyboards.

I think you are totally right in concentrating on traditional instruments. Even if you end up making music on your computer, you will have tons more musical feel if you have experience playing instruments. And if the majority of the people here program their drums, you will stand out if you actually play real drums (although the possibility may be limited for such a large and loud instrument, as is the case for most of us).

In the end, what program you choose isn't that important, as long as you're comfortable working with it, especially if your sounds come from traditional instruments and not the software itself.

What is more important than specific software are general production techniques, i.e. recording, processing, mixing, mastering, etc.

Remember -- Fruity Loops and Cubase may be the biggest on the scene for the last 10 years, but channel mixers, EQ and echo units have been around for 50 years, and the modern piano for 200 years...

[Blue123]

Would it be preferable to have a "portfolio" of tracks to show where some are performed live while others have been done on a computer? Also is it best to get into lots of different styles, or to concentrate on one (while not necessarily neglecting the others, just not spending as much time focusing on) and becoming master of that one particular style?

[anosou]

I'm currently composing the music for some XNA titles adn actually getting paid. I'm able to do this pretty much all because of OCR. This is a great place to grow as a producer and composer. While there isn't much composing involved the arranging is so extensive you WILL become a better composer. So I suggest improving your skill first and foremost and this is a good place to start.

When you feel confident about your skill I suggest getting some contacts and hanging around independent developer forums or stuff like XNA. They're a goldmine even though the games aren't always the highest quality. Great experience for sure.

Would it be preferable to have a "portfolio" of tracks to show where some are performed live while others have been done on a computer? Also is it best to get into lots of different styles, or to concentrate on one (while not necessarily neglecting the others, just not spending as much time focusing on) and becoming master of that one particular style?

A porfolio is great to have. Not to show which were performed live or not (honestly, that doesn't matter as long as it sounds good) but to show what you're able to do. Therefore it's also best to get into a lot of different styles. While a certain style might be your forte many developers might not want that and then you miss a job opportunity. I say learn as much as you can about different style but if for example guitar-based music is your forte, try adapting styles to fit your own skills and so on. I do electronic salsa for example

[Halt]

Well, I was wondering my self. i have the trial of FL. and a cheap midi keyboard. but cannot find the motivation anymore, its like. I want to. but it confuses me alot. So, what im asking, is simply. What can I do to get myself motivated?

[anosou]

Well, I was wondering my self. i have the trial of FL. and a cheap midi keyboard. but cannot find the motivation anymore, its like. I want to. but it confuses me alot. So, what im asking, is simply. What can I do to get myself motivated?

Well, FL demo won't allow you to save so that might be an issue if you DO get inspired

honestly though, just set up some goals or a project. You can't force inspiration but playing some really good game, listening to a fantastic piece of music or whatever might help. Good luck ;P

[FlagshipAmadeus]

It could be considered unwise to concern oneself about whether or not one's software or hardware is sufficiently professional, for tools do not an artist make.

[anosou]

It could be considered unwise to concern oneself about whether or not one's software or hardware is sufficiently professional, for tools do not an artist make.

Deep. You won quote of the day.

[Abadoss]

It could be considered unwise to concern oneself about whether or not one's software or hardware is sufficiently professional, for tools do not an artist make.

Unfortunately, they do have a tendancy to keep one from getting too many ReMixes on OCR...

[anosou]

Unfortunately, they do have a tendancy to keep one from getting too many ReMixes on OCR...

OCR is about complete prodcutions. We want the whole shebang, a good arrangement AND good production. If people wanted to listen to MIDI-quality arrangements they wouldn't really be on OCR, they'd be hanging around at vgmusic.com. I also believe it's near impossible today to succeed as a game composer without knowledge of computer based-music.

I mean really, who can just go to a company and say "hey, I'll score your game! .. if you give me an orchestra to perform my score! Here's the MIDI!"

Not saying that the music in itself is bad but you wouldn't really listen to a CD of Bach's St. Matthew Passion played directly from a Finale score with the built in instruments? It would sound bad and fake! Sound quality, recording and quality of instrument/performers is and will always be a factor in music that you're supposed to listen to.

[WillRock]

This is a very good thread I may keep a copy of this for reference.

Its something I have been wondering myself.

I personally have a set plan to attempt to achieve my goal, but everyone says how hard it is.

What I'm doing personally is using the internet as a means of promotion for my music and my university course and OCR as a means to increase my musical boundaries (OCR has been fantastic so far ). I'm trying to learn mixing and mastering effectively, and increase the styles I compose in and arrangement as a whole.

I eventually intend to create a portfolio of my work when I get to a good enough standard and send it off to a gaming company and try to get employed through that method.

I was wondering if I am going along the right lines :S

Seems like a good place to ask

By the way, I use Reason 3.0 and Pro Tools LE 7.3 to create my music/remixes.

[MkVaff]

THere's a lot of good advice on this thread about successfully becoming a composer, but one thing you have to ask yourself (and it may be hard to answer) is if it's a worthwhile career. The problem with composing for games is that there is insane amount of competition, the pay is generally not the greatest, and in and of itself it's fairly difficult to make a living off it.

When you're 17 you make certain decisions about your passions and career (as I did when choosing a college), and a few years afterward, you might find that you have a degree in something that is either not in demand or is extremely hard to get into. Add school loans that need to be repaid, perhaps a family, and just the realities of "life" into the equation, and suddenly the idea of composing for a living seems like a better hobby or side job than source of income.

Not to deter those trying to get into the artistic fields, but my advice would be to weigh your options and be realistic about your future. I know quite a few friends who went to art and music schools with aspirations of becoming full time artists in their fields, but few of which ended up getting the jobs they wanted. And a few of the ones that were lucky enough to get decent jobs - end up doing more freelance work. Freelance is nice, but when you're worried about paying the rent, it's far from ideal.

the Wingless is usually perfectly on point with his advice about the industry from the perspective of an insider. Aside from that, remember that a job is something you do to support yourself, not just for fun. We all see and admire those who get handsomely compensated for doing things that we might enjoy doing, but those people are unfortunately much more the exception than the rule.

[WillRock]

THere's a lot of good advice on this thread about successfully becoming a composer, but one thing you have to ask yourself (and it may be hard to answer) is if it's a worthwhile career.

Not to deter those trying to get into the artistic fields, but my advice would be to weigh your options and be realistic about your future.

Remember that a job is something you do to support yourself, not just for fun. We all see and admire those who get handsomely compensated for doing things that we might enjoy doing, but those people are unfortunately much more the exception than the rule.

Its certainly something I have given alot of thought. What I intend to do is try and get a job in the music industry and do another job at the same time that has a set wage, so I have some money coming in even if the my music ambitions don't earn me enough to make me a living.

Maybe I need to give it more thought - I'm only 18 and in my first year at uni so I have time to plan.

I am definitely going to try and get in the music industry though - what have you got to lose?

[danimal cannon]

Get awesome at your instruments and composition. Obviously a variety of styles. Don't fake it, we can tell.

Get awesome at production. MONEY DOES NOT = AWESOME PRODUCTION. I can make some fabulous sounding material using a few key things. I also know that I could spend thousands and thousands of dollars and get negligibly better results, or worse results.

You might have an amazing arrangement, but if your production sounds amateur, then your song sounds amateur off the bat to 95% of your listeners. People WILL NOT take you seriously if your production sucks.

After you have mastered these trials you can start worrying about the "business contacts" portion.

[MkVaff]

Its certainly something I have given alot of thought. What I intend to do is try and get a job in the music industry and do another job at the same time that has a set wage, so I have some money coming in even if the my music ambitions don't earn me enough to make me a living.

Maybe I need to give it more thought - I'm only 18 and in my first year at uni so I have time to plan.

I am definitely going to try and get in the music industry though - what have you got to lose?

Yeah for most situations I would probably say that freelance composing is definitely a nice 2nd job. As for what you have to lose - trying to get good at making music takes a huge amount of time. And trying to sell those talents could ultimately take an equal (or greater) portion of time. So I suppose what you have most to lose is time.

I would definitely say work on it though, just keep your options open. I've found that it's one thing to work on music you enjoy when it suits you. But when you're being told what to do, how it should sound, and when it has to be done by (sometimes by people who have hardly any musical background), it's a bit of a different experience. Not a horrible experience, just very different from the stuff I love doing on my own time by myself (i.e. remixes).

[Halt]

See, this is somewhat what i have been wondering, looking through tutorials, and whatnot. i just get confused. Wondering where to start even a project, or what goals to set as im trying to make this a hobby of mine. I would love to be a composer. But i have way to much into computers. Computers are my true passion.

Id love to come home from work as of now, and work on a mix or my goals. but i dont know where to begin, what goals i should set, or anything. Im Clueless...

[Blur]

Wow, thanks for all the input everyone, =D. It's really opened my eyes to all the stuff I'm going to need to think about before devoting my whole life to this. It makes me very nervous that it's hard to make a comfortable living off of this kind of job. I still would really like to get into the video game career, but it seems like one slip up and you could be working the rest of your life at McDonalds as a basic employee, D=.

After reading all these comments though, I'm a little embarrassed to ask, but what exactly do you guys mean about performance of the song? I have a general idea of what it could mean, but I better know what the definition is in full. Is it things like volume adjustments and panning and whatnot? Or am I completely missing the point here?

Also, for the past month or so, I've been looking at this college near by where I live called DigiPen in Redmond, Washington. I went to this college fair awhile ago and asked the representative if they teach any game music and he said no. However, he did say that they were in dire need of people who could do both music and make things like models, art, animation, or engines. Do you think I'll have better chances if I can get good at, let's say 3D modeling and animation, along with having good musical knowledge and so forth? It seems like a no-brainer "duh", but I'm not sure in the video game business if they like to have just one guy do one thing.

Thanks again everyone for helping me out, ^^.

-Blur

[Abadoss]

There's actually a program in Seattle, called the Pacific Northwest Film Scoring Program. It's dedicated to film scores, but that will certainly help you with game composition. I could never really afford to go to it, as it doesn't take federal financial aid, but if you can, I'd recommend it...

[Lie Mf B]

I still would really like to get into the video game career, but it seems like one slip up and you could be working the rest of your life at McDonalds as a basic employee, D=.

I'm no expert in the field, but if you want to get into game music specifically (rather than different areas of music), it will help if you are into game design in more general terms. That way it will be easier to find work and contacts in the business. But it depends, of course, on how much interest you have in game programming, 3d modeling, and all the other aspects of game design. They're all huge fields, just like music. Time, interest, effort and luck are big factors indeed.

After reading all these comments though, I'm a little embarrassed to ask, but what exactly do you guys mean about performance of the song? I have a general idea of what it could mean, but I better know what the definition is in full. Is it things like volume adjustments and panning and whatnot? Or am I completely missing the point here?

It's never wrong to ask, and your question isn't embarrasing at all. Performance may be a familiar term, but exactly what it means isn't always clear, since we're all creating music in so many different ways.

I would say it means HOW something is played/recorded, rather than WHAT you're playing. As Another Soundscape pointed out, you may compose a good piece of music, but then it gets down to how it is executed. Obviously, the composer and the performer of one song are often different people.

Playing a song on guitar is a clear example of a performance, but I guess you could also say that producing/mixing is a way of performance, especially in our computerized field of music.