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GUYS! OCR IS INCORRECT!! (or: NeoGAF stupidity)

Nekofrog

By Nekofrog,
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ifirit Newbie

ifirit

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I've said this many times before, but the problem is outside of the OCR community you start running into the people thinking that if you fuck with the song too much you're doing the composer a disservice.

The thing is, actually arranging the music into different styles is normal to people, but the difference with OCR is that here the melodies, or the chord structure, or whatever notes from the original song is usually changed. I can't think of any other site other than vgmix where this happens, so for most gamers it's foreign idea and doesn't make a lot of sense. The average gamerjoe would rather just hear straight up covers.

I'd often wondered what the perception of OCR was to people outside the site, and sometimes suspected that this was the case. And, in retrospect, I think I was like that, too, when first visiting the site. However, there were a lot of kick-ass rearrangements and awesome remixes that changed that misconception, not solely from the OCR camp either. I was enthrawled more than I was put off in most cases.

It's interesting to think what can draw a person to a particular style of music/composition/arrangement is enough to drive other people away. Is there a way to bridge that gap without sacraficing one's artistic licence or integrity? However, in this instance, I have to wonder if winning over a few people on another site is even a concern for the author (Nekofrog), though I feel that the artists here should, at least on some small level, think about drawing in people other than just game-music-arrangement enthusiasts.

I suppose that things can change in the future, but I still wonder if there will always be a gap between the general gaming crowd and the game-music-arrangement enthusiasts so large that a little thing like key changes are enough to spark flame wars.

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A-RoN Newbie

A-RoN

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I've said this many times before, but the problem is outside of the OCR community you start running into the people thinking that if you fuck with the song too much you're doing the composer a disservice. I can see where they're coming from though, but I'm open to covers as well as arrangements.

The thing is, actually arranging the music into different styles is normal to people, but the difference with OCR is that here the melodies, or the chord structure, or whatever notes from the original song is usually changed. I can't think of any other site other than vgmix where this happens, so for most gamers it's foreign idea and doesn't make a lot of sense. The average gamerjoe would rather just hear straight up covers.

I can agree with that for sure. Alot of my friends of mine would rather recognize a remix of a song from a video game at first listen. OCR is such a turn off for them because they keep asking "What is this song?" or "What's game and level is the song based off of?" rather than just enjoying the music. I had a huge arguement with Liontamer about this sort of thing regarding judges standards. I'm open to covers as well as arrangements provided that the original piece is recognizable at first listen. When listening to music, no MP3 of a great song has to be studied to find its source of the original track. That's why OCR is only browsed and joined in by so many people. Think of your audience, remixers. The customer's always right unless you're lyrically trying to send them a message and re-arrange their thinking in song.

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Bahamut Newbie

Bahamut

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I can agree with that for sure. Alot of my friends of mine would rather recognize a remix of a song from a video game at first listen. OCR is such a turn off for them because they keep asking "What is this song?" or "What's game and level is the song based off of?" rather than just enjoying the music. I had a huge arguement with Liontamer about this sort of thing regarding judges standards. I'm open to covers as well as arrangements provided that the original piece is recognizable at first listen. When listening to music, no MP3 of a great song has to be studied to find its source of the original track. That's why OCR is only browsed and joined in by so many people. Think of your audience, remixers. The customer's always right unless you're lyrically trying to send them a message and re-arrange their thinking in song.

OCR has always been the way it is, yet it still maintains a large audience...I doubt djp is going to change it, especially since it's counter to the mission of the site.

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A-RoN Newbie

A-RoN

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Regardless of changes to judging songs on the site and without trying to play devil's advocate here, here's a question I should ask, "Is OCR dedicated to the listening expectations of an mp3 listening couch potatoe who doesn't want to think and just be entertained by a good song? Or are the arrangements here and on VGMix more for analytical musicians and scientists who like to study and critique good music?" I think the songs on both sites should be for both parties. So far OCR and VGMix are doing a good job and keeping a balance of both sides. But which would a generic audience prefer or would they prefer a balance of both types?

Selah. (Think about it.)

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Liontamer Grand Master

Liontamer

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I can agree with that for sure. Alot of my friends of mine would rather recognize a remix of a song from a video game at first listen. OCR is such a turn off for them because they keep asking "What is this song?" or "What's game and level is the song based off of?" rather than just enjoying the music. I had a huge arguement with Liontamer about this sort of thing regarding judges standards. I'm open to covers as well as arrangements provided that the original piece is recognizable at first listen. When listening to music, no MP3 of a great song has to be studied to find its source of the original track. That's why OCR is only browsed and joined in by so many people. Think of your audience, remixers. The customer's always right unless you're lyrically trying to send them a message and re-arrange their thinking in song.

As long as the A-to-B connections are apparent after informed scrutiny, then it honors the original music. That independent of pleasing lowest common denominator listeners. It's not about whether Joe Schmoe from Idaho recognizes the source tune or likes the arrangement vs. the original music. Hell, the thread started because some dipshit at NeoGAF couldn't handle a key change. Listeners find all sorts of short-sighted reasons not to enjoy a creative, interpretive arrangement, but we'd rather base the judging criteria on encouraging creativity & interpretation. Once you go toward the average fan picking up on the connection, you dumb down the process.

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Eino Keskitalo Collaborator

Eino Keskitalo

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Thanks for your viewpoint A-RoN, it's making me think.

Think of your audience, remixers. The customer's always right unless you're lyrically trying to send them a message and re-arrange their thinking in song.

Why only lyrically, why not musically too? You can pick your audience too, which in my humble opinion & modest experience is a healthy thing to do. I appreciate that OCR has broadened my musical horizons especially because of the arrangement and interpretation focus. The vgm material here are like jazz standards and everyone's encouraged do their own takes on them.

--Eino

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Dafydd Newbie

Dafydd

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I for one like both OCReMiX styled reinterpretations and straight-up covers. What I don't like is when you can't tell what the remix is a remix of, but that's only because for me, then it's not interesting to listen to. What key the mix is in I couldn't care less about. But then again I don't have perfect pitch and I suppose people who do would mind a bit.

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Xenon Odyssey Newbie

Xenon Odyssey

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The vgm material here are like jazz standards and everyone's encouraged do their own takes on them.

This. Right. Here. I go to a music school, and practically all of my teachers encourage us to take whatever standards we are playing, from Take the "A" Train to Autumn Leaves, and make our own arrangement of it, so that when others listen they can say "Oh yeah, that's So-and-so's version!" Why can't this be applied to VGM? I mean, that's a CORE part of music: being able to take someone's idea and expand upon it in your own way. It gets you thinking like they did and see how the piece itself was formed.

I would rather make an arrangement that other musicians would listen to and appreciate for years to come than make some cover of a song that the average joe would listen to for a couple of weeks and then forget about when the next musical fad came around.

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Dafydd Newbie

Dafydd

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I would rather make an arrangement that other musicians would listen to and appreciate for years to come than make some cover of a song that the average joe would listen to for a couple of weeks and then forget about when the next musical fad came around.

You mean like "Hillbilly rodeo" and "Music of my groin"?

"Hello Cat" is one that I still listen to every so often and there's not much reinterpretation in there. It's actually the best Top Man cover out there as far as I know.

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