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The Blog Sega doesn't want you to read


Toadofsky
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I liked Sonic Heroes as well. Not perfect, but it had more of the good parts from SA1 and 2 (read: the speed levels). The whole series really started to go downhill with Shadow the Hedgehog and it's poor implementation of the good side/evil side mechanic, plus a more wonky camera and way worse collision detection than Sonic Heroes. Musically the series has been getting worse as well, ever since Jun Senoue stopped being the series music composer after Shadow. I have high hopes for the music of Sonic and the Black Knight at least, since Jun is back on board. We'll have to see how that one fares.

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Considering all that corporate pushing bullshit, I wonder how they were able to produce the GBA and DS 2D Sonic games.

Also, it's little wonder that their recent Phantasy Star games are just awful and reach for the innovation of the original Phantasy Star Online. It's just really sad fall from grace.

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Jeez, five pages in, and we've got into the what's wrong with Sonic topic.

I guess I'll be the only one to defend Sonic Heroes, it was the last good game of Sonic in my opinion. Sure, it was annoying as heck in some spots, but I enjoyed it. The whole tag team thing didn't bother me, I adjusted to it, especially when I would replay a stage I would get the idea of who was up next.

I'll admit as well that I enjoyed sonic heroes. However, it was a HUGE disappointment, like darkesword said, bad controls, camera etc, but the team based action is what let it down in my opinion the most as it slowed down the game play having to switch team members every 5 secs.

However, the game did have its merits.

The game was fun, and it was fun using characters different abilities as well. Not to mention team chaotic was a fun team to play as with the different mission objectives.

team dark and rose however were completely unnecessary imo.

I think that overall however, sonic has run its course. They should stop making sonic games before the reputation of the games are completely tarnished (which to be honest, has already happened)

If the article in this thread is accurate, then they shouldn't be making new rushed games to meet demand, as soon enough, the great 2D sonic games of old will be over shadowed and forgotten in favor of the newer sonic games.

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I think that overall however, sonic has run its course. They should stop making sonic games before the reputation of the games are completely tarnished (which to be honest, has already happened)

So....you need to go back in time and stop the creation of the past 4-5 games. You now know your mission. Hop to!

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What the hell is wrong with Mario? Mario 64 was fantastic, and Sunshine and Galaxy were both pretty good. How can anyone claim that Galaxy has poor/uncreative level design? What games have you been playing if you seriously think that game has poor level design? Galaxy is by far one of the most creative games I've played in the past few years.

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What the hell is wrong with Mario? Mario 64 was fantastic, and Sunshine and Galaxy were both pretty good. How can anyone claim that Galaxy has poor/uncreative level design? What games have you been playing if you seriously think that game has poor level design? Galaxy is by far one of the most creative games I've played in the past few years.

I don't want to derail the thread or anything, but the level design just bored me simple as that. It was too linear even on the levels with larger planets, and looked like every Mario level ever vomited on the screen. If you want a game that came out around the same time that actually was creative go play Portal. If you want a rehash of Mario 64 without level design even approaching the same caliber, play Mario Galaxy.

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I don't want to derail the thread or anything, but the level design just bored me simple as that. It was too linear even on the levels with larger planets, and looked like every Mario level ever vomited on the screen. If you want a game that came out around the same time that actually was creative go play Portal. If you want a rehash of Mario 64 without level design even approaching the same caliber, play Mario Galaxy.

Plus, the controls were much more stiff and awkward than from Mario 64. Mario 64 had delicious, fluid controls.

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Mario Galaxy is great. I think it's time to change up the formula for all Ninty's key franchises though (or else resurrect the lonely ones and give Mario, Zelda, and Metroid some time to recoup).

On a somewhat related note, I thought the whole wolf thing was just as stupid in Zelda as in Sonic.

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Question: Has anyone here ever played "Secret of the Rings"? I've seen youtube vids, never played it. From what I see, it doesn't suck, but the only reason why I wouldn't get too into it is because it isn't as interactive, though I think it's a good idea that it's a straightforward speed game. It's definitely more geared to kids.

@ Sengin:

Probably because of Mario 64's graphic simplicity. The mechanics of the other two probably needed a little more response/accuracy/whatever. Sunshine and Galaxy may have things that Mario 64 don't, but altogether, Mario 64 continues to be one of my favorite Mario games.

@ Xenon Odyssey:

Naw, I wouldn't say that. I never played it enough; just the demo. The controls were iffy then, and I never got a chance to play it since, so I can't judge.

@ The Pezman:

  • Sonic was one of the best pastimes of my childhood as well. Some people thought that I was a dork, but I just held on, playing those stages, whooping those enemies.
  • I played the first Sonic game years after it came out (I was born around the time it was released).
  • The comics were fantastic back in the later 90s; the first time I owned a Sonic comic was on Christmas '99: issue #79. I still have comic #s 39 and 87 plus a Super Special of Mecha Sonic vs Mecha Knuckles. If you never read it, get it. Then there's one comic from last year, decent, but not beating the pre-100 series. I never owned a Knuckles comic, but I have read them. They were more serious than Sonic's, which drew me in, but I never got a chance to purchase one. I was a kid, I had my limits.
  • Heh, I drew scenes from the Sonic comics and showed them to my 6th grade classmates. Some people thought it was cool, others didn't. I must have been 11 at the time.
  • The first Sonic games that I actually owned, excluding emulators, were both Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. Certain things are better about 1 while others are better about 2. I would say that it's really about opinion between the two. They both make Sonic Heroes look half-assed.
  • Almost everyone I knew was happy with Sonic's new style. Even for non-gamers, Sonic Adventure was a REVOLUTION; a new standard for gaming. The comics were kickass during the pre/early bimilliennial years and no one would argue because (at the time) they were the artistic truth. The first issue I received on Christmas was the beginning of the Sonic Adventure adaptation. I knew about the SA2 adaptation, but I never got a chance to read it. Issue 100? Ah, I guess it wasn't so bad to me, but not that good. Arachnis perished, Tails and Sonic fought Kodos (the culprit), who was finally killed by Sally when she went psycho with her sword. After 100, most of it went to hell for the next few years.

And then came Sonic Heroes. Expectations were high... all the characters I'd seen up to now were going to come together in one big mishmash... but my god, what had they done? THREE characters at a time? Ridiculous collision detection, clunky controls, a switching scheme that was laughable. THAT, I contend, was the major deviation, not Sonic Adventure. After that things only got worse and I was done.
Sonic Heroes had great ideas that were executed so poorly. It was a technical fiasco; wonky camera, bad collision detection, etc. Total crap. The idea of using formations and controlling a team of characters? Fantastic idea! The implementation? Horrible!

I was actually excited for Sonic Heroes. I bought it the day it came out.

What a waste of money; such a disappointment. :(

I felt the exact same way. It was so cheap, just... cheap. One moment, you hear that you can use Sonic, Tails and Knuckles at once, specifically in terms of alternation. TIGHT! Next moment, you play it and get a headache from the bad music. Oh, and the group specials, the group specials... only Team Dark's was cool IMO. The ideas were amazing but the way the stages were put together was so annoying! Especially the second world, ugh... how long did it take Sega to do this? One moment of fail cost the whole reputation of Sonic.

Didn't I already mentioned how Sega lame-ified Metal Sonic? I didn't think that they could. Then, when they gave Shadow guns and motorcycles, it was obvious that they were trying to save their reputation. Okay, go gangster, but what good does going gangster do if the controls suck and you go mach speed in half a second?

So where does that leave me? Of course, I can still play the old games and read the old issues, but it's obvious to everyone that Sonic isn't aging well. There are other places which have kept track of Sonic over the years, and I have pipe dreams of becoming a successful game artist so I can buy all the different Sonic IPs and bring the 'hog back to his glory days, but more realistically I imagine he will fade from the hearts and minds of younger gamers, known only to the passing winds as "that wolf hog game."
Maybe they should take a break.

Edit: this has got to be the funniest mockery of anything Sonic-related I've ever seen.

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Question: Has anyone here ever played "Secret of the Rings"? I've seen youtube vids, never played it. From what I see, it doesn't suck, but the only reason why I wouldn't get too into it is because it isn't as interactive, though I think it's a good idea that it's a straightforward speed game. It's definitely more geared to kids.

I have it - but only because I got it for Christmas (my mother asked my brother if I had it, he said I didn't, and she got it for me). I have to say, the game is extremely "meh." Some parts are fun, but then you realize that stuff like jumping on top of something is excruciatingly difficult because of the really dumbass controls. You see, if you press the 2 button, you "hop," which means you jump like an inch and kinda hover over the ground for a second. To actually jump, you have to hold the 2 button, wait until you start sliding (which also slows you down - yeah, you have to slow down at least a little to jump), then release it to jump. But if you want to actually jump any height more than a couple feet, you have to really slide a little ways. Oh, and to do the homing attack, you have to shake the controller (and by shake I mean thrust it forward) at a specific time. And while this may seem all good and ok, it's definitely not once you realize that you just died because the game didn't recognize you thrusting your controller forward. But you will have died a couple times before that trying to jump to a couple platforms with pits around them because you have not pressed the jump button long enough and did that stupid quick jump, then you will have ran off the end of the first one because you couldn't stop in time, and then some more times for some more stupid reasons. There are some missions where you have to end with zero rings. Sure it doesn't sound that hard, especially considering there are plenty of places to get hit and lose your rings. But the challenge is actually in the last section of the level where there are lots of rings, no ways to get damaged, and no ways to die. It's difficult because no matter how slow you go, the controls are so wonky that it's almost garaunteed that you will get a ring somehow ("oh shit, I tried to jump onto the platform, but I somehow gained extra speed in the air and touched a ring," or "well crap, I THOUGHT I was holding the wiimote perfectly straight, but I somehow boosted to the left and got 2 rings"). And then you have to restart the entire level because you can't die in the last section, and you fail if you have any rings at all.

Also, you can equip some "skills" to use as you level up, but some of them should be part of the game without you needing to equip them. As in "makes moving on the ground easier and more fluid." And in the air. And while sliding. Etc.

Also, turning is stupid. And tilting the wiimote the same amount won't garauntee that you turn the same amount either (sometimes it's really easy to turn quickly and dodge the fire, while other times it's a garaunteed damage taken).

Though I do enjoy Speed Break (Sonic go real fast zoom) and Time Break (everything is slowed down and you can dodge things easily). They are both powerups you get automatically that you can use when you collect enough soul orbs in the level.

But yeah, don't waste your money. I would HIGHLY recommend renting it first. Maybe buy it if you find it new for $10 like I saw at Walmart a little while ago. To me, it's not worth $20. MAYBE $10, but even then it's a little stretch.

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