Gario Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Holy Nut Snax! That Zelda mix is great!! Second that... really nice mix, there (although not enough variation from the source ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deathtank Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 http://www.ocremix.org/remix/OCR00028/'Nuff said. LOL And I used to think that José the bronx rican's Thank you DeeJay was the first remix to have spanish lirycs. THanks for opening my ey...I mean ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwordBreaker Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Holy Nut Snax! That Zelda mix is great!!Oh, and SwordBreaker, that track HAS been covered http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001ISSLTU/ref=dm_dp_trk11?ie=UTF8&qid=1243978281&sr=103-3 I completely forgot it. I actually own that album! Well...hasn't been covered MUCH is a better statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZealPath Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Second that... really nice mix, there (although not enough variation from the source ). Would have to agree, and I think a mix like that could be used as an example of a situation where a song doesn't necessarily have to be "OCR material" to be "good," if that makes sense. I imagine there are a lot of situations where the judges really digged a mix but it didn't quite make the OCR standards, which does not automatically mean said mix was garbage (which I only bring up since SOMETIMES it seems like people will interpret a NO that way). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Worth noting that Zelda Heineken was an obvious pass, so that makes no sense to bring it up as an example of something that's not "OCR material"; it's posted with our current standards in mind, ergo it's "OCR material". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZealPath Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 Personally I was referring to the Acostic Guitar ALttP mix from VGMix that SwordBreaker linked to when I made that statement, just in case there was any confusion (I guess "that Zelda mix" could mean a lot of things though). In other words a song that I enjoyed listening to (which is what I meant by "good"), that happens to not be on OCR. I certainly did not feel that ZH was not OCR material, if anything it was a good example of the more interesting approach to getting on OCR, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 My fault; I thought "Zelda Heineken" was being referred to, given SwordBreaker's original mention of it. That said, "Utopia" was very nice. And as I just said about it, I dunno if the arrangement concerns are that cut and dry, given the ideas in the second half, BUT I don't have my judging hat on. That said, I wouldn't write it off. Also, Doug's avoiding saying the obvious "I was wrong" about the judges always being meanie-faces to the submitters and implying all rejections were bad music; he STILL hasn't owned up. C'mon, I'm waiting. You didn't look at anything before you complained. He still thinks Prot's on the panel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I think a mix like that could be used as an example of a situation where a song doesn't necessarily have to be "OCR material" to be "good," if that makes sense. It makes perfect sense... I seem to find myself listening to all sorts of good music in the WIP forums that I know will never get on OCR due to the criteria that the music needs to meet (too little or too much source usage doesn't make the music bad - but it certainly will not get the music on OCR). Another case-in-point is this song... It's got the classic case of medley-itis (of course, he didn't submit this version here, either - don't worry, J's ). However, I love this song to death (frankly, it's one of my favorites around) - just because it's a medley in it's structure doesn't mean it's bad music - it just means you won't find it on OCR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Also, Doug's avoiding saying the obvious "I was wrong" about the judges always being meanie-faces to the submitters and implying all rejections were bad music; he STILL hasn't owned up. C'mon, I'm waiting. You didn't look at anything before you complained. He still thinks Prot's on the panel. Just bumping because he punked out. I'm not mad, but if you're flat out wrong, you need to own up. You know I'll keep bumping this until I get my concession, Doug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Larry! Larry! He's our guy! 'fyu fuck with him Prepare to die! > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salluz Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 We all have our musical preferences (and exceptions) when it comes to setup and quality, but all in all, the judges know skillful music when they hear it. They have knowledge as well as natural inclination; they know "good" when they hear it. Also, no one's getting any profits off of what's being heard so it's definitely more about the music. I don't think that bias is bad in every sense. In fact it can be good. Are we speaking of quality or genre? The judges seem to listen a song itself: the idea (a creative idea), the "hype" of a familiar mix (everyone likes to hear a redo of a song they really love), vibe (the mood and setting of a song; what it's good for), arrangement (chorus, break, verse, abstract, etc), composition (chords, melodies, harmonies, countermelodies, arpeggios, velocity, accent, reciprocity, etc), and whatever else you could name. As long as the judges are familiar with almost or all kinds of music, I'm cool. I don't care if it's engineered, acoustic or both, good is good and garbage is garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
po! Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 hmm quite a thread here... i'll start by saying that i am one of the people who think that newer music has a different feel to it. i don't wanna say it's lacking anything or doesn't have "soul" but there's something different. this sentence kinda explains what i'm talking about Some people, odd as it may seem, aren't making music for OverClocked ReMix. back in the day, there was no such thing as making music for OCR. there wasn't really any specific judging criteria, and people did just make music for fun but as time went on, the judging criteria got more specific, and this concept of an "OCReMix" started to take a life of its own. people started asking "how can i make an OCReMix to get on the site?" and "how do i OCReMix?".. as if OCReMixing is something different than music making in general i do think that it has evolved into something different, something shaped by the judges criteria. with the goal of creating an OCReMix, somebody is going to specifically and purposefully adhere to the criteria to obtain that goal. that inherently alters the feel of the resulting music such that it becomes an OCReMix some people might retort that the criteria only "raises the bar" and promotes more "good" music. i really have to disagree, as any set of criteria is going to impose restrictions and steer the resulting music in a particular direction, no matter how open or "we accept all types of music" it may seem. and basically that's what i sort of feel is different with today's music on OCR. some of it has the feel that it was constructed to specifically meet the criteria. when that happens, a sense of freedom is lost.. the sense when an artist has complete freedom and can create anything within the musical universe, instead of being boxed in by judging criteria as an example, the term "OCR trance" is used to describe some trance music on this site, as if it's different from "real trance." i'm not going to debate whether that's really true or not, but the fact that that term exists and some people feel that way shows what i mean.. that there has become a difference between an OCReMix and other "normal" music that has been shaped by judging criteria hopefully i'm getting my point across since it's sorta difficult to explain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salluz Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 hopefully i'm getting my point across since it's sorta difficult to explain...Makes complete sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aninymouse Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 unmod prot sidebar no more unmod diaspora mediocrity but seriously I love you guys ◕◡◕ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 hmm quite a thread here...i'll start by saying that i am one of the people who think that newer music has a different feel to it. i don't wanna say it's lacking anything or doesn't have "soul" but there's something different. this sentence kinda explains what i'm talking about Some people, odd as it may seem, aren't making music for OverClocked ReMix. back in the day, there was no such thing as making music for OCR. there wasn't really any specific judging criteria, and people did just make music for fun but as time went on, the judging criteria got more specific, and this concept of an "OCReMix" started to take a life of its own. people started asking "how can i make an OCReMix to get on the site?" and "how do i OCReMix?".. as if OCReMixing is something different than music making in general i do think that it has evolved into something different, something shaped by the judges criteria. with the goal of creating an OCReMix, somebody is going to specifically and purposefully adhere to the criteria to obtain that goal. that inherently alters the feel of the resulting music such that it becomes an OCReMix some people might retort that the criteria only "raises the bar" and promotes more "good" music. i really have to disagree, as any set of criteria is going to impose restrictions and steer the resulting music in a particular direction, no matter how open or "we accept all types of music" it may seem. and basically that's what i sort of feel is different with today's music on OCR. some of it has the feel that it was constructed to specifically meet the criteria. when that happens, a sense of freedom is lost.. the sense when an artist has complete freedom and can create anything within the musical universe, instead of being boxed in by judging criteria as an example, the term "OCR trance" is used to describe some trance music on this site, as if it's different from "real trance." i'm not going to debate whether that's really true or not, but the fact that that term exists and some people feel that way shows what i mean.. that there has become a difference between an OCReMix and other "normal" music that has been shaped by judging criteria hopefully i'm getting my point across since it's sorta difficult to explain... I sure hope nobody is truly making music just to get on OCR. There may be a few who do that, but thinking of artists off the top of my head while I've been catching up on the last 250 posted ReMixes or so, I can't think of any who might've been doing so with their posted music. For example, take a look at the following list of people who have posted mix(es): Another Soundscape AeroZ Audix Beatdrop Big Giant Circles bLiNd bustatunez Children of the Monkey Machine DarkeSword DiggiDis Dhsu DrumUltima Fishy Game Over Geoffrey Taucer Hemophiliac ilp0 JigginJonT Joshua Morse Level 99 Kidd Cabbage Mazedude Nekofrog Nicole Adams norg Nutritious OA Palpable Patrick Burns pixietricks ScaredSim sixto tepid Tensei (Joren de Bruin) The Orichalcon The Prophet of Mephisto Tweek Willrock zoola zyko zircon (This is a short list of people off the top of my head, not meant to offend anyone I didn't mention) I do not see any of that in their music where they're altering their music just to get posted on OCR. In fact, I would argue that comments from the likes of judges have helped a good deal of them improve (some of them have/are judges though, so they probably get comments more freely). In fact, if someone was trying to make their music for OCR, I'd wager it'd lead to he/she to abandon the creative process that works the best for him/her & be a barrier to getting a track posted. I do understand that there is something about the judging criteria seems to evoke some criticism of OCR, but I haven't come upon a reason that adequately explains it (although I'm sure that it exists, just someone hasn't been acute enough to identify it and articulate enough to explain it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meteo Xavier Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (This is a short list of people off the top of my head, not meant to offend anyone I didn't mention) Would you mind if I got offended anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 There's nothing inherently wrong with someone making an OC ReMix because they want the e-fame or e-penis or whatever you get from having a mix posted. Jared Hudson, SGX and Star Salzman have said they like the praise and exposure the most. Some people think that's not an allowable way of looking at it, and even I don't prefer it, but there's nothing wrong with that. As long as the music is enjoyable, the listeners generally don't really care what the motive is. Some of those people Wes mentioned have modified tracks to get on OCR (e.g. AeroZ, OA, Nutritious and Willrock have resubbed mixes before), but not necessarily in a way that runs contrary to their creative process or personal enjoyment. If anyone has, they really shouldn't have. I'm always an advocate of making an arrangement however you want, and if it's eligible for here, that's great. Unlike whatever Doug has insisted on, we make it pretty clear when something's a good piece of music that happens to be outside the standards. When Js make suggestions for resubmissions, we hope the artist feels they'll improve the song in a way they're personally happy with, that they only take suggestions on that level, and that they pass on whatever doesn't work with their vision for the piece. I remember years ago pretty soon after I joined the panel, Darangen resubbed a mix and lamented to me that he was unsatisfied with it because it was becoming less of what he wanted. I had to make it clear that we're not implying you have to turn a piece of music into something you're personally dissatisfied with; that's stupid. We're not clients, we're not paying anyone to make the music, and we're not asking for something to be built with very specific specs. We only want artists to tweak a mix or make a mix with OCR's guidelines in mind because they want to make it that way, not to conform against their better judgement. I can't go with the implication that the standards are a bad, stifling thing that's mutually exclusive with fun. It just seems like the natural progression of "the rules are limiting my artistic freedom" is throwing out all rules and saying this place should be run as "goodmusicwebsitewithnocommontheme.com", which is over the top. Obviously there's limitations involved in making an OC ReMix. Discouraging MIDIs and direct sampling does limit some options, sure. But if using the source material a lot, producing it reasonably well and not creating a pure cover is too limiting of their freedom, then this isn't the place for them. I think most people look at the OCR guidelines as encouraging their own creativity, not discouraging. Coming at the standards from a negative point of view assumes that no one has ever used them as a positive creative influence and channeled that towards making a piece of music that they like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bahamut Posted June 13, 2009 Author Share Posted June 13, 2009 I meant altering in a way that destroys their creativity...but yeah Larry gets it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djpretzel Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Maybe I'm missing something, but if people want to make music with absolutely no guidelines or restrictions, it seems like requiring that it be related to VGM at all in the first place would qualify as such a restriction. This isn't a file-hosting service, it's a site with a more specific point/focus. Once you set the initial basic rule of "has to be from a video game," you're already doing what po mentioned - restricting the scope. However, if you DON'T set that guideline, you're basically running a glorified file-hosting service, as I see it. Nothing wrong with that, but there's plenty of sites filling that role, and it has very little to do with what we're about. Furthermore, while I would agree that our submission standards do restrict the scope of what can be submitted (& accepted), I don't think they necessarily restrict creativity per se. That's like saying any poet who only worked in forms was inherently less creative than poets working in free verse. Amadeus, Bach, etc. must all have been severely restricted as well, since they too worked within formal structures. Granted, they're considered masters because they helped evolve those forms, and had a knack for knowing where they could bend and break the rules, but there was still structure. We too have structure. I feel that when we revised our standards, with the help of the community, we really did ensure that those standards were as unrestrictive as possible, to allow for quite a diverse spectrum of music that all qualifies as an "OC ReMix". I'm very proud of the document itself, and even more proud of the way artist after artist has managed to create badass, diverse, and continually evolving pieces of music that all magically somehow fit EASILY within its scope. That's what I think. Also, if the Mega Man 2, Faxanadu, and Rygar mixes we JUST posted don't reflect the radical departure and deviation artists can take creatively within our standards, I don't know what would... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anosou Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Maybe I'm missing something, but if people want to make music with absolutely no guidelines or restrictions, it seems like requiring that it be related to VGM at all in the first place would qualify as such a restriction. This isn't a file-hosting service, it's a site with a more specific point/focus. Once you set the initial basic rule of "has to be from a video game," you're already doing what po mentioned - restricting the scope. However, if you DON'T set that guideline, you're basically running a glorified file-hosting service, as I see it. Nothing wrong with that, but there's plenty of sites filling that role, and it has very little to do with what we're about.Furthermore, while I would agree that our submission standards do restrict the scope of what can be submitted (& accepted), I don't think they necessarily restrict creativity per se. That's like saying any poet who only worked in forms was inherently less creative than poets working in free verse. Amadeus, Bach, etc. must all have been severely restricted as well, since they too worked within formal structures. Granted, they're considered masters because they helped evolve those forms, and had a knack for knowing where they could bend and break the rules, but there was still structure. We too have structure. I feel that when we revised our standards, with the help of the community, we really did ensure that those standards were as unrestrictive as possible, to allow for quite a diverse spectrum of music that all qualifies as an "OC ReMix". I'm very proud of the document itself, and even more proud of the way artist after artist has managed to create badass, diverse, and continually evolving pieces of music that all magically somehow fit EASILY within its scope. That's what I think. Also, if the Mega Man 2, Faxanadu, and Rygar mixes we JUST posted don't reflect the radical departure and deviation artists can take creatively within our standards, I don't know what would... This. A thousand times this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palpable Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Haha had a big long post written out only to realize Dave and Larry covered most of it. I agree with them, but I do see po's point. When a site like this gradually reduces its scope, it could definitely appear like people are consciously changing their music to conform to the changing standards. It's especially true when people from the early days still get posted here. But something that's important to remember is that the standards have not changed significantly for years, at least since I started hanging around in 2003. I don't think most people getting posted here now are conforming their music to standards; it's more that the music they want to make DOES conform to the standards. That is absolutely true for me, it's part of reason I like this place so much, and I'd bet it's true for most people who stick around. Not to say I wouldn't tweak things on a mix in order to get posted, but if I'm not happy with changing a song, I won't do it. I'd recommend that to anyone submitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekofrog Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 If I could change one thing about the requirements, it would be the filesize limit. We live in the age of broadband, 6MB is usually enough but there ARE cases when it can be limiting. For example, the FF7 / Xenogears remix I subbed ran 7:30-something originally and even with VBR I still couldn't get it to 6MB without sacrificing a LOT in the way of quality. That one kind of hurt, but I made cuts in the piece the best I could to get it under 6MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OceansAndrew Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I happily update tracks that end up being below the bar where production is concerned, as that only makes the track better. If I happen to do a song where the arrangement doesn't fit OCR right, that's fine too; as Doug 'n friendz run a perfectly awesome site that will host game tracks. I've had a few that were basically covers, and a few that were a little too out there, and they have a lovely home now, even though they don't fit the goals of OCR. It's a beautiful world we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinewav Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 Sometimes I wonder if I'm the only hack amateur remixer around here who actually LIKES, having an extremely high standard around here. It means that I have to work at it and make my music better. It would be boring and wouldn't help me grow as a musician very much if everything I pulled out of my ass got accepted. It also means that when I get on here to just to listen to some tunes, I'm almost always guaranteed something of very high quality. Sure there's some good stuff that gets rejected too, but that's what ThaSauce and other sites are for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrumUltimA Posted June 14, 2009 Share Posted June 14, 2009 I'm always an advocate of making an arrangement however you want, and if it's eligible for here, that's great. Unlike whatever Doug has insisted on, we make it pretty clear when something's a good piece of music that happens to be outside the standards. Uh buh... which doug are we talking about? as for my take... i'm not gonna lie: very frequently, when making a remix, I am custom tailoring it to ocr's standards. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, for me the boundaries present a challenge. That's why I do things like improvisations, the all percussion mix, this all vocal mix I'm working on--I like to see how well I can fit those standards while doing something different. There's a lot of stuff I do for fun that I would NEVER submit to ocr, just because I know it doesn't meet the standards. But in the end, i do see po's point (but with not as negative of a light), I do consider OCRemix to be sort of it's own macrogenre of music. As the bar continues to raise, well, it becomes difficult to see it--or rather, define it. It's important for remixers to realize this. A good arrangement doesn't mean a perfect balance of source and original content, and if you wrote an amazing arrangement that sounds like a midi you still have an amazing piece on your hands. The only reason it didn't get on OCR is because it wasn't right for OCR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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