Left 4 Dead 2 - now $6.80 on Steam!

[BardicKnowledge]

What's funny is that a lot of L4D1 servers had already modded those things, and they were super awesome and fun. It's nice to see Valve officially implemented them.

The only thing I wish Valve would do is make an official 8v8 versus game. Oh sweet balls, that would be awesome in L4D2.

8v8 would be sick. Gotta have that

[The Damned]

8v8 would be sick. Gotta have that

Well, they already have eight characters from both games, and people would love to have the old crew around. Nick could hit on Zoey, Francis and Coach could stare each other down (one being a rebel and the other an authority type), Louis could hang out with some other black people, and Bill and Ellis could compare boring stories with each other.

Rochelle? No one gives a fuck about Rochelle.

[Strike911]

Yeah, honestly, as soon as I started playing L4D2, I enjoyed the new cast, but I started thinking, and then I realized I really missed the old characters.

I don't know what happened to Bill's voice actor though. There are rumors the guy died, but I can't find any official source anywhere. Anyway, not a big deal to get a new actor if that's the case.

The more I play L4D2's demo, the more I want to see the old survivors interact with the new survivors. I miss Francis saying all the things he hates. *tear in eye*

[big giant circles]

so far, this is true. Granted, we've only seen the first 2 levels of one campaign, so maybe there will be some redeeming dialogue. But thus far, the new characters lack the charm and endearing qualities of the original 4.

I mean, the redneck kid is kind of funny, and I have an affinity for Nick because he's kind of the suave badass type, but they just seem more generic in general than the others.

I thought I remember reading somewhere a while back that the paths of old and new survivors might cross at some point in the future. That would be STELLAR.

Also, another thing I've noticed about the new AI director is it does a MUCH better job of making sure there's always zombies. Like, before, if you threw a pipe to clear our a room, or just got done fighting an event, it wouldn't respawn idle horde nearby. In this, you'll finish fighting off a horde, walk around a hedge or corner, and there's still like 20 zombies standing there.

Also I got to play with the magnum tonight. Me likey much very sweet it super is.

[Native Jovian]

So I haven't been paying a whole lot of attention to L4D2 because I'm one of those assholes who was annoyed by the fact that L4D1 didn't get nearly as much support as, say, TF2. Yeah yeah I know, I'm a terrible person and I should go suck a shotgun for demanding that Valve give me free stuff that I don't deserve because I hate America. Whatever.

Anyway: I heard somewhere that it may be possible to play L4D1 content on the new improved L4D2 engine. Is there anything to that? I haven't been able to find anything online that confirms or denies. The closest I've found was this article which just said they're "discussing" it and "thinking" about it (second to last paragraph). I'd been operating under the assumption that L4D1 and L4D2 content would be completely separate, but if you can actually still do all the L4D1 stuff with L4D2, that's something else. Doubly so if you can do the L4D1 campaigns in L4D2's engine. I have the 360 version of L4D1 (spare me the console hate, please -- I didn't have a computer capable of running it when I bought the 360 version) -- if I can get L4D1 and L4D2 stuff for the price of just L4D2, then I'd probably pick it up for PC.

Anyone know anything about it?

[BardicKnowledge]

NJ, nothing is confirmed on it yet. My guess is that if you can "acquire" the map files, then you will eventually be able to play L4D1's maps in L4D2. Someone will make it so once the SDK gets released even if Valve doesn't...

[Bahamut]

There is a L4D & L4D2 bundle for $65 on Steam.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

so far, this is true. Granted, we've only seen the first 2 levels of one campaign, so maybe there will be some redeeming dialogue. But thus far, the new characters lack the charm and endearing qualities of the original 4.

I mean, the redneck kid is kind of funny, and I have an affinity for Nick because he's kind of the suave badass type, but they just seem more generic in general than the others.

I thought I remember reading somewhere a while back that the paths of old and new survivors might cross at some point in the future. That would be STELLAR.

Maybe they could give "The New Class" some lessons on personality.

[big giant circles]

Eh, I wouldn't say personality, I'd just say quirkiness.

[Triad Orion]

Anyone know anything about it?

I remember reading that custom made maps for L4D would be compatible with L4D2. It probably wouldn't be much of a stretch to convert the current five campaigns into L4D2. I wouldn't be surprised if Valve actually did that at some point. ...Oh god, imagine the No Mercy Sewers with Spitters involved.

And honestly, if Valve doesn't do it, someone will. That's how I see it.

[SirChadlyOC]

I have enjoyed fighting zombies in the daylight. That is all.

[A Random Tiger]

I have enjoyed fighting zombies in the daylight. That is all.

Wow, I didn't even think of that.

It is pretty different to be fighting during the day.

[Species8472]

Demo open to all now.

[Powerlord]

If you preordered L4D2 and have TF2, you'll receive Bill's hat from L4D when you first die in TF2.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

So... Is it now the "in" thing to not have mics when playing Left 4 Dead on the 360 now?

[EdgeCrusher]

I'm sorry, but "in" thing and L4D on a 360 in the same sentence does not compute.

[Triad Orion]

So, I got a chance to play the demo last night for the first time, and I walked away very impressed. It's a clear improvement over the original in damn near every way. The new specials are devious little bastards, and the Spitter is nothing short of nightmare fuel if you're caught unaware. I like the riot cop Infected too. The new designs on some of them look cool too. I like the Hunters with their hoodies and no sleeves. That made me laugh.

[EdgeCrusher]

Damn spitter showered me when I was standing on a narrow ledge that had to be jumped down to to get to it. Of course it incapped me, and the bots couldn't save me. Damn it Rochelle

[Native Jovian]

I played the demo this afternoon. I can't say I was really impressed with any of the new content.

The new weapons all play the same. There's no real difference between any of them except looks. They just gave the L4D weapons multiple skins, really. The melee weapons were novel, but again, all play the same. There's very little difference between using a nightstick and using a frying pan (well, the pan does make a very nice CLONK when you hit a zombie with it), and given that you can still melee with your guns, very little reason to give up your pistol for one. The bile bomb was fun, but essentially combines the best of both the pipe bomb (it draws zombies away) and the molotov (it deals damage over time in a specific area).

The new infected seemed to be rehashes to. I'm actually hard-pressed to describe the difference between the hunter and the charger (one jumps at you and pins you, the other runs at you and pins you?), though apparently the charger is designed to break up corner camping and the like, so I guess it you can't just melee it away? The spitter and the boomer are likewise very similar -- one spits stuff at you that causes damage, the other spits stuff at you that summons zombies that causes damage. The jockey was at least genuinely new, but it was annoying as hell because given that it's a) small, on top of a survivor, and c) moving around, it's damn near impossible to free someone from it without shooting them in the process.

It may have just been tweaked for the demo, but everything seemed much more fast-paced than L4D, too, which isn't really a good thing. There were always infected around, which meant that you never got any of the rising tension that L4D was good at -- nor did you ever really get the chance to deal with specials by themselves, there were always regular infected mixed in like speed bumps. I found myself having to melee through them constantly while going after specials or just trying to catch up to the other survivors.

The core game was still fun, but the only thing that's really new is the characters and campaigns, which I'm not going to shell out full price of a new game for.

[Nicole Adams]

I wasn't all that impressed with the demo either. I'm somewhat disappointed actually.

Native Jovian makes a lot of good points and I'd like to emphasize some of what he talked about.

After first hearing about the melee weapons, I felt they were primarily added for the novelty factor. Yeah, you can use them to avoid shooting cars with alarms and wandering witches, but other than that they don't seem all that beneficial, even with one-hit kills. They're definitely not worth getting rid of two pistols for. One more note: When using the melee weapons, there is little to no resistance when hitting zombies, unlike in the first game. (Yeah, melee in the first game is way too powerful, but at least it feels more realistic.)

Let me quote Native Jovian since I feel exactly the same as him about the gameplay:

It may have just been tweaked for the demo, but everything seemed much more fast-paced than L4D, too, which isn't really a good thing. There were always infected around, which meant that you never got any of the rising tension that L4D was good at -- nor did you ever really get the chance to deal with specials by themselves, there were always regular infected mixed in like speed bumps. I found myself having to melee through them constantly while going after specials or just trying to catch up to the other survivors.

Even the tanks don't seem as epic as they do in the first game. Everything feels so mish-mashed together with no individuality, despite the new special infected.

The controls feel too fluid. Movement is way too light and airy. While I enjoyed it during my first play-through, I now believe it takes away from the realism.

The guns feel like toys, especially the pistols, and some of the weapons are HUGE.

The overall look is very cartoon-like and smooth with no grit.

All of these points are what separated me from feeling like I was in the game. The first game felt more like it could be a real-world experience whereas the second feels way too stylized to draw the player in. I understand there was a lot of hype to live up to, but I believe Valve didn't go in the right direction by changing so much of the feeling that made the first game so great. Yeah, this is only the demo, but my complaints aren't about the maps, just the overall feeling of the game.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

It sounds like you guys are just trying to rationalize your way out of seeming foolish for not wanting to buy L4D2. If you don't wanna put down the 60 bucks for it, don't. Nobody here is gonna call you a jerk for it. Don't however come up with bullshit. Take it from me, I was a big naysayer on the game 'til I actually got to play this demo(which is excellent).

[Vivi22]

The new weapons all play the same. There's no real difference between any of them except looks. They just gave the L4D weapons multiple skins, really.

I'm not trying to pick on you specifically, but you made some arguments that I actually had at first and figured I would add my thoughts too. To start with the weapons, I actually thought the same thing at first, but after several playthroughs I've realized I was wrong and they don't all play the same. In fact, each assault rifle feels different than the others. The AK for example is incredibly inaccurate, but seemed more powerful than the others. When I had a large number of zombies running straight at me in a group I probably mowed down a dozen of them in half a clip before they got to me, but it would be terrible for shooting a jockey off of someone. The green assault rifle also seems weaker, has a bit of a burst fire, but is a lot more accurate. I only saw the M4 once so I can't really say much about it, but I'd assume it differentiates itself as well. Each weapon is more than just a different skin for the most part.

The melee weapons were novel, but again, all play the same. There's very little difference between using a nightstick and using a frying pan (well, the pan does make a very nice CLONK when you hit a zombie with it), and given that you can still melee with your guns, very little reason to give up your pistol for one.

No argument from me that the melee weapons seem to all play the same. Maybe I'm wrong because I just don't use many of them except the machete, but still, with the one hit kills I've actually found it easier to fend off a horde that's right in my face than pistols, even with the pistol melee because I only need to hit them once and can stop worrying about them with a machete. I still have to shoot them after the pistol melee and with the cool down on that after you use it several times it could mean I'm being attacked from all sides with little recourse beyond trying to shoot them all to death. The downside to the melee weapons is of course giving up a pretty accurate ranged attack with unlimited ammo, and having to actually let the horde get to you to be effective. Both have their strengths and weaknesses and are balanced quite well if you ask me.

The bile bomb was fun, but essentially combines the best of both the pipe bomb (it draws zombies away) and the molotov (it deals damage over time in a specific area).

I disagree that it's just a mish mash of the other two Being able to use the horde to your advantage can be great when you're facing a tank. A molotov won't slow him down, and he totally ignores pipe bombs, but it's hard to ignore a horde of zombies attacking him. It buys you time to get to a safe distance, and takes care of the horde and some of the tanks health. I'm sure others will find similar good uses for it over time.

The new infected seemed to be rehashes to. I'm actually hard-pressed to describe the difference between the hunter and the charger (one jumps at you and pins you, the other runs at you and pins you?), though apparently the charger is designed to break up corner camping and the like, so I guess it you can't just melee it away?

I've also found that the charger can't take a lot of punishment, but he's fast and when he actually hits you he sends everyone else flying forcing them to take a bit to recover then grabs one person and does damage a lot faster than the Hunter. On the other hand, the Hunter pretty much relies on taking you by surprise, is harder to kill (if only because he can jump around so freely), but he doesn't do as much damage to the player when they're pinned. They both behave very differently, and have different damage potentials requiring that you handle them very differently.

The spitter and the boomer are likewise very similar -- one spits stuff at you that causes damage, the other spits stuff at you that summons zombies that causes damage.

The Spitter has much longer range though. In fact, it's really the only thing that can attack you at a distance except the Smoker (or the Tank if it throws something at you), and even then, it's attack is a lot different from the smokers. It could easily trap a team by blocking an exit with spit, or really mess up someone trapped by a charger or a smoker. The concept of spitting something at you may not be new, but you don't react to a Spitter the same way you would a Boomer.

The jockey was at least genuinely new, but it was annoying as hell because given that it's a) small, on top of a survivor, and c) moving around, it's damn near impossible to free someone from it without shooting them in the process.

I haven't found it that difficult. If all I had was a shotgun and a frying pan maybe, but they clearly highlight both character so you can differentiate them at a distance. Pull out a pistol and aim high, or melee if you're close enough.

It may have just been tweaked for the demo, but everything seemed much more fast-paced than L4D, too, which isn't really a good thing. There were always infected around, which meant that you never got any of the rising tension that L4D was good at -- nor did you ever really get the chance to deal with specials by themselves, there were always regular infected mixed in like speed bumps. I found myself having to melee through them constantly while going after specials or just trying to catch up to the other survivors.

I'm not really going to say anything except that I'm betting it was tweaked for the demo. I mean it is incredibly short meaning if they didn't throw enemies at you almost constantly it would be a pretty uneventful demo at times. To be fair though, I have gone through several times and found areas where there were only one or two infected, usually right before the horde came running after us. This is one of those things where you have to remember it is just a demo and things will probably play differently in the final game. Valve pretty much consider giving breaks and building tension a science if you ever listened to their developer commentary on other games.

That said, I do have some problems with what I've seen. I'm not a fan of the character models for the most part. It's not that there's anything wrong with them, but you could pretty much look at the characters in L4D and know all you needed to know about them, plus they were pretty varied and unique. In this one we have three people wearing regular old street clothes. I'm sure I'll like the characters as I get to listen to all the banter in the final game, but visually they're not that interesting and it can even be tough to distinguish some of them from the zombies at times.

I also wasn't overly taken with the level design in the demo. I won't condemn it until I see all of the levels in the final game. It wasn't like it was terrible or anything, but I felt the original game did a better job of focusing the player on where they need to go next, even if it was your first time through. My first time through in this I actually managed to get lost for a minute or two.

If you don't wanna put down the 60 bucks for it, don't.

I'm going to hope you just don't have a great computer and couldn't buy it on anything but the 360 because there is no other acceptable excuse for getting a Valve game on a console. Especially when I only paid $45 for the PC version on Steam.

[EdgeCrusher]

I already went over Jovian's problems in the IRC channel last night. It seems he just wants to nitpick at the game and is biased right off the bat. The melee weapons are not all the same, and neither are the guns. The guitar makes for a great crowd killing weapon since you can take out multiple targets with it. The pan works great on the SWAT zombies, and the machete is just brutal for hordes. All the guns have different accuracies and power, making them more situational weapons, etc.

Also, totally agreeing with vivi on the console version. Save the 60 bucks you'd pay for L4D2, buy some more ram or save a little more and get a good video card. There is no reason to be playing this on the 360. Plus, 4 pack much? 33.75 made this a great full game at expansion price. I don't see how people can bitch about that.

[Vivi22]

Also, totally agreeing with vivi on the console version. Save the 60 bucks you'd pay for L4D2, buy some more ram or save a little more and get a good video card. There is no reason to be playing this on the 360. Plus, 4 pack much? 33.75 made this a great full game at expansion price. I don't see how people can bitch about that.

Yeah, I wish I had been able to get in on the 4 pack earlier, but I wasn't sure I'd even have the money until this past weekend so I just went and spent the $10 extra rather than spend forever trying to find anyone who wanted to go in on it with me (I don't have any friends here who are getting it so I would have had to scour the internet).

And like I said about the melee weapons not seeming different to me, I hadn't used many of them. I figured I was probably mistaken since they differentiated every other weapon in the game. I'll be sure to try them all some more as I play through the demo a few more times.

I just remembered something though and I'm wondering if I'm the only one bothered by it; does anyone else not like the pistols firing sound? It sounds a little harsh to me and starts grating my nerves after a while.

EDIT: It also just occurred to me that we still have more weapons to see in the game since we know there are chainsaws, and the in game tips make mention of a grenade launcher and different types of ammo. So there's a lot more depth to the weapons we haven't even discovered yet.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

I'm on a laptop, so the most I can do right now before I buy a new one(in the undetermined future) is upgrade the RAM to 2 gigs instead of just one. I'm running an old Core Duo 1.6 ghz with a mobility X1400 with 256 ram right now. I THINK I could run the first, but not sure about L4D2, I'd friggin' love to make the switch to the PC though since I've always preferred it for FPS games and user mods. Just can't make the big jump right now.