New 2D Sonic in 2010

[Sindra]

This has some merit, methinks.

Back when Sega used to have consoles, releasing a Sonic game on there was a BIG THING. They put time and effort into it, tried to polish it as best they could, and when it was released it was often hailed as excellent. Even SA2, while a bit spotty and too formulaic, was quite a good game for its time. It still is, to a point.

But now that they don't have a core, system-purchasing fanbase to appease with 'must-have' 1st party titles, they don't see a reason to put as much resources into them.

I think they just got lazy and bitter, and now their flagship series is wading in a pool of mud. Sad, really.

I knew Phalanx and I would make good friends.

[Nabeel Ansari]

Sonic's an interesting case. Whereas most things with Mario in them can be determined to be quality (or at least bug-free and good for an afternoon or two), any Sonic game that deviates from what is considered the norm is derided.

Gamers in general love the Mario RPGs (a series unto itself now) and, despite any complaints, Mario Party is still pretty successful. Yet Sonic, in any attempt, is found to be a pale imitator... Because he is.

Sonic is unfortunately the result of Sega's direct competition with Nintendo in the 90s, and has yet to find his place as a standalone series, free of Mario's comparison. I think, for a Sonic game to truly be upheld as an instant classic worthy of the earlier games, it can't just rehash those games mechanics and ideas, or attempt to imitate the star-collection or genre shifting that Mario does. Sonic needs a new idea, something not even Mario has done, to really stand on its own.

That said, I'm not sure what that could be. It needs to be something that can't be written off as a gimmick.

I really wish they'd tone down on the story and voice acting. Methinks that would help Sonic series improve. And Sonic has done stuff mario hasn't... and that was pretty much what led to its defeat. Swords, werewolves, etc. It should just be Sonic. In every Mario game, Mario is just MARIO. He's not some werewolf that Peach doesn't recognize and he's not some knight. He's still the same midget plumber jumpman we all know and love.

Sonic is the exact opposite. They put a sword in his hand, make some crappy story (I say for the sake of saying I don't even know the story) and turn all the characters Medieval. I mean like WTH?

[Strike911]

I can't believe people are arguing over the distribution ratio of speed areas vs. platforming areas.

Come on, please. What does it matter if the game is fun? Hell, its not like Sonic has gone through more radical changes than a switch speed/platforming ratio.

What you should really be concerned about is the sonic to sonic's friends ratio. That's what really makes the games good or bad.

*falls over*

[Xenon Odyssey]

If they don't make a non-HD version and sell it on WiiWare, me = sad panda

[Thalzon]

I really wish they'd tone down on the story and voice acting. Methinks that would help Sonic series improve. And Sonic has done stuff mario hasn't... and that was pretty much what led to its defeat. Swords, werewolves, etc. It should just be Sonic. In every Mario game, Mario is just MARIO. He's not some werewolf that Peach doesn't recognize and he's not some knight. He's still the same midget plumber jumpman we all know and love.

Sonic is the exact opposite. They put a sword in his hand, make some crappy story (I say for the sake of saying I don't even know the story) and turn all the characters Medieval. I mean like WTH?

So then a balance must be struck between a great new idea and maintaining Sonic's core gameplay and timelessness.

Perhaps a new old-school-type Sonic game is just what the series needs to re-establish itself and stop with all the werewolf/time travel/sword/genie nonsense it's been pushing since 1999.

In a way, finding that happy creative medium is harder than any other part of the design process. Something familiar yet fresh does not come easily.

[JCvgluvr]

I'm getting a "New Super Mario Bros." vibe from this announcement. While that game was pretty good, I personally didn't like it or find it nearly as memorable as the classic 2-D Marios. Nevertheless, here's what I'm hoping for with this new needlemouse project:

- Focus on speed/physics-based platforming.

- Nice music. Some remixes would be nice.

- Only Sonic, Tails and Knuckles as playable characters, utilizing the moves they learned in S3&K.

- The heart and soul of the classic Sonics, which is what gives the game life. 2-D alone can't do that.

- Either make it a download-able game, or give it enough content to justify a full $50-$60 purchase.

- Don't change Sonic's look. That blacked-out logo looks fishy to me.

- NO BOOSTING!!!

- No new characters.

- New special stage that feels like the classic special stages. Quick, easy, and addictive.

- Super forms in all stages.

- Simple multiplayer, and definitely NO minigames!

[KyleJCrb]

- Don't change Sonic's look. That blacked-out logo looks fishy to me.

The only thing that looks "fishy" about that logo is that Sonic may shift back to his classic look instead of the modern, streamlined look he's had since Sonic Adventure. The outline of it matches perfectly with the Sonic 1 logo.

[Nabeel Ansari]

The only thing that looks "fishy" about that logo is that Sonic may shift back to his classic look instead of the modern, streamlined look he's had since Sonic Adventure. The outline of it matches perfectly with the Sonic 1 logo.

I concur with your statement about the below (or above) stated statement about Sonic's appearance being stated as "fishy'.

[eternal Zero]

I'm excited that the series could possibly be revived properly (last good game from them was SA2 and maybe Sonic Heroes if the level design was garbage) but I'm not keeping my hopes up for anything.

This ex-cash cow of Sega's is really starting to show his age and unless they can pull off some magic akin to Miyamoto with Mario then it's about time we let the little blue dude retire for good.

[Devyn]

Sonic games are like that psychotic, half-likable ex that always promises that she's not going to mess things up this time, but once you've let her back into your life, she fucks your brother, drinks all of your liquor, then leaves to California with your rent money.

Seriously, does anybody need a Sonic game besides Sonic Mega Collection?

[Elex Synn]

Sonic games are like that psychotic, half-likable ex that always promises that she's not going to mess things up this time, but once you've let her back into your life, she fucks your brother, drinks all of your liquor, then leaves to California with your rent money.

Seriously, does anybody need a Sonic game besides Sonic Mega Collection?

"Need"? No. Though I really want a 2-d HD version.

Eh, I was perfectly happy with Sonic Jam on the saturn looking back on things.

[Salluz]

- Simple multiplayer, and definitely NO minigames!

2P co-op would be awesome as well. Games need to start making 2P co-op badass.

[Devyn]

If you want another Sonic game, that's fine with me. I've just lost faith in Sonic, because I tried every single new Sonic game up to Sonic and The Secret Rings and it felt like they were making the same game over and over again.

If they pull off a Sonic game that is just sickeningly awesome, then I will try it. But hey, if you enjoy it, then all the better for you. I still have plenty of love for the old games and a couple of the 3D ones were fun at certain parts, but I've learned not to expect anything.

Someone recently mentioned that they should capitalize on the core things that made Sonic fun - speed and physics. If they focused on those things and gave the game the kickass musical stylings of the old games with some spiffy graphics it would probably rock.

[BlackPhantom]

There's something I'm curious about: why exactly is it that Mario can do MANY different types of games and fans love it, while fans hate it when Sonic tries to do different types of games?

I mean, there's a lot of things that's different between the original Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy, and Mario has done, what seems like everything, from teaching how to type to playing baseball.

So what exactly is different about Mario and Sonic that lets one cross genres and the other can't?

[cobaltstarfire]

Sonic games do it poorly.

[Thalzon]

Sonic games also invariably come along after Mario has shown how it's done, which makes Sonic look even worse in comparison.

[noTuX]

There's something I'm curious about: why exactly is it that Mario can do MANY different types of games and fans love it, while fans hate it when Sonic tries to do different types of games?

I mean, there's a lot of things that's different between the original Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy, and Mario has done, what seems like everything, from teaching how to type to playing baseball.

So what exactly is different about Mario and Sonic that lets one cross genres and the other can't?

Sonic games tend to get fucked up when they go from 2D to 3D. I mean, look at the physics, graphics quality, collision detection, ect on the recent Sonic games, everything is glitchy.

I remember getting Sonic the Hedgehog for PS3 a while back and being really pumped up about it until I started playing.

This is a PS3 game that had graphics that could be duplicated on the PS1. The camera angles were constantly screwed up. And it was IMPOSSIBLE for me to play the game because the controls were fucked sideways. I could not finish the first stage.

[NNY]

2P co-op would be awesome as well. Games need to start making 2P co-op badass.

You should give Splosion Man a try. It goes up to 4-player co-op. And is a quality game.

[eternal Zero]

I think the main difference is that developers of different Mario games make the games first then just slap Mario on there for the name. Different Sonic games try to change Sonic instead of making a solid game first. Much like how the most recent one added 3D combat and tedious levels instead of making a solid adventure game and THEN making it a Sonic game after the fact.

[LuketheXjesse]

[Geoffrey Taucer]

AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! So awesome!

[Triad Orion]

There's something I'm curious about: why exactly is it that Mario can do MANY different types of games and fans love it, while fans hate it when Sonic tries to do different types of games?

I mean, there's a lot of things that's different between the original Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy, and Mario has done, what seems like everything, from teaching how to type to playing baseball.

So what exactly is different about Mario and Sonic that lets one cross genres and the other can't?

A big part of it is versatility and expectations. Mario is highly successful because as a character, he's still pretty much a blank slate. Aspects of his known personality just fit with the heroic archetype. The only thing that's tacked on is his love of good food. So really, Mario works as a perfect fit for most genre shifts because as a character, he's undeveloped and can "be" what he needs to be for that particular game. Sonic doesn't really have that luxury, considering Sonic Team's been doing their damnedest to create a character with attitude from the beginning. One way they try to differentiate him from Mario is by giving him a concrete personality, which in theory, is great for his own core games. But this limits his ability to branch out into other things that don't have to do with speed.

As for expectations... Mario has shown in his versatility that we can expect him by this point to do anything. Plus, Nintendo's really only marketed Mario as... well, Mario. They still leave him as a relatively blank slate beyond "Hero." Sonic's big selling point compared to Mario was always his speed, and Sega marketed him this way since inception: why play a fat, slow plumber when you can play a speedy, cool, blue hedgehog? So speed has been a part of Sonic's character since the beginning, and that's what we identify him as. If he's in a game that doesn't involve him going really fast, we think something is inherently flawed in the premise.

Another problem, as addressed, is quality control. Mario games undergo extensive testing and quality control because Nintendo knows just how much rides on a Mario game. Though there have been some bad Mario games, for the most part, when Mario genre-hops, he typically ends up in one of the best games for the genre. Kart-racing? He practically invented it. Arcade sports? Golf, Tennis, Baseball, Soccer? All quite good. RPGs? The Paper Mario games are truly gems. Sonic's forays into such things tend to fall flat. I think a large reason for that is Sega's more concerned about making the quick profit rather than the great game *and* the good profit. It's not the smart business decision in the long run.

Honestly, I don't think Sonic's done as a character. I really don't think so. However, I do know that Sega has no idea what the hell they're doing with him anymore. In my opinion, they should just let Shigeru Miyamoto have a go with him and show them how it's done. 10 years ago, such a statement would be blasphemy, but honestly, I want to see someone who has a penchant for reinvigorating franchises see what they can do with the blue blur.

[LuketheXjesse]

in my opinion, they should just let shigeru miyamoto have a go with him and show them how it's done.

I HAVE HAD THIS VERY SAME IDEA sexsexsexsex

[BlackPhantom]

LOL! That's just what I was thinking with Pikachu! Except the sombrero is a nice touch!

And Triad Orion, that's also what I was kind of thinking. Sonic was given a personality from the get go, but Mario has never shown a whole lot of personality except for the "go and save the day" kind of stuff.

[KyleJCrb]

Miyamato would be the best thing to happen to Sonic. I mean, Nintendo allowed SEGA to touch one of its major franchises with F-Zero GX (and came out with one of the best racing games in the last generation as a result); why couldn't they go the other way?