I'm going to rant about MMORPG communities here

[Bahamut]

I guess I'll piggyback on this topic and say that I have a problem with meanies on Left 4 Dead. I'm not the greatest player, but by no means am I retarded in game. But in quickmatches, apparently I'm bad enough to the point where people constantly swear me out and attempt to votekick me. I don't know what about my play classifies me as terrible. All I know is people are completely unwilling to help each other out in game and everybody seems to have the game down to a science.

Play with us when L4D2 comes out - we'll help you!

[Flare4War]

............ start at half life/mana and run at half speed (if you opt to buy your XP back, it'll clear this debuff too).

I would quite the game based on that alone. Especially the running at half speed thing. What in the name of fuck were the game designers thinking. Honestly I'm with the other medium. I think dieing should hurt. MMO's should be a dangerous wide world that you don't carelessly venture out in. If you get killed, though, you should have to face a heavy fine.

Running at half speed though? Are you fucking serious. I would seriously forsake the game for that alone.

Spare yourself.

[Doulifée]

Play with us when L4D2 comes out - we'll help you!

damn yes, i want to play with you ocr guys again. Baha is right. come it's just a game.

[Archaon]

Running at half speed though?

It's probably to stop people from killing tough enemies by whittling them down with repeated suicide attacks.

[OverCoat]

If you and a bunch of buddies earn enough ISK, you can trade that ISK for game time last I remember. Personally I never earn enough to do that and I tend to blow my ISK on special projects.

blow up a faction fit CNR/Golem chinaman and you'll have enough money from selling that Gist X-Type Large Shield Booster + all his other Caldari shit

it's like magic. hard to find them though and even harder to get them to shoot, I personally have never found any

You could also do it the scrub way and whore level 4 missions for a couple days a month. I actually have two accounts now and one is fed entirely by PLEX

[Ramaniscence]

Communities aside, because EVERYTHING is going to have a bunch of elitist assholes.

Other MMO's, not just asian ones, just don't get it.

EQ, FFXI, Maple Story, Lineage, Aion...they're ALL about grinding. Most of them have a TERRIBLE death penalty to set you BACK on leveling, the economies are super inflated, pretty much everything you said. It's kind of the Everquest business model. They have SO much emphasis on grinding for gold, grinding for levels, grinding for rare spawns to sell for gold, etc etc etc. That they're just not fun.

The reason WoW is fun, is kind of similar to the reason Ultima Online was fun. WoW IS very welcoming. Especially now. But don't think that there aren't a ton of people in WoW that don't wish it wasn't.

Right now if you left WoW a few monthes ago, and come back TODAY, though content has VASTLY expanded past you, you can pretty much pick up and get back in the game really quickly, and catch up with everyone else. Honestly who wants to spend MONTHES, years in some instances, levelling 1 character to max level, leaving for a few monthes, coming back and having to level MONTHES more? WoW realizes that the fun part of the game, for the most part right now, IS the end of the game. They help you get there, they don't make you suffer through it (for the most part) and when you do get there, if you want, you can pretty much jump into actually experiencing the game.

Obviously people would LOVE it if you had to suffer to level 60 like they did. If you had to grind for monthes and monthes and monthes to catch up to the game now. If you had to level to 60, then get to outland, get GOOD gear in outland, go through Northrend, hit 80, do normal instances until you're geared for heroics, do heroics until your'e geared for naxx 10, do naxx 10 until you're geared for ulduar, do ulduar until your'e geared for ToC, and THEN let you actually PLAY THE GAME, but blizzard is smart enough to not let that be the case.

They've even realized that the old world isn't really "the point" anymore, so they've made it easier to push you through it fast, and generally painlessly, while they take the time to fix it, and make it more like actually experiencing the game, rather than just rushing through what they used to think was a good idea.

WoW, essentially, tries REALLY HARD to help you enjoy yourself, whether or not you want to put in 2000000000 hours a week. It's the anti-MMO addict MMO, really. Which is generally why it's successful.

Since you haven't PLAYED many other MMOs, I guess I don't really expect you to know that, but WoW is VASTLY beyond all other MMOs on a lot of fronts. It could use work, sure, but other MMOs just aren't going in the right direction. They're video games. Video games are supposed to be a FUN thing you do in your spare time. Not something you make a part-time job out of a suffer through so that your ePeen grows 10 sizes.

I WILL say, though, coming from someone who's played WoW on and off since launch, and who's only SERIOUSLY played 1 other MMO EVER but knows a lot of other people who've played a LOT of other MMO's: WoW's push to get you to the fun part of the game makes the fun part of the game...get old very fast. I agree with you there. They don't add new content fast enough to keep it interesting, and there's very little incentive to go BACK and do OLD content to KEEP it interesting (though, they are making a bit of an attempt to fix that with the badge upgrades, and new weekly raid quests). Like last week, Tuesday came around, all my raids reset, I ran Trial of the Crusader 10 and 25 on my priest. Onyxia, Vault, the end. By Wednesday WoW was over (unless I wanted to level and alt, but I have no patience for that). Sure I could run heroics, or Naxx, or try to get into an Ulduar, but that stuff is old, and offers nothing interesting. Even ToC is getting boring now and it's hardly even 2 monthes old.

I do have faith in Blizzard, though. They fixed a LOT of things with Wrath (mostly with questing, the way you gear yourself endgame, and achievements to make things a little more intersting), and they're fixing a LOT more stuff with Cataclysm.

I would totally be open to TRYING another MMO if one of SUBSTANCE came a long (I've gone back to playing UO free servers a few times), but no one has even come close yet, and I can't figure out why =\

[EdgeCrusher]

MMOs. Rofl. I still don't understand how the mentality of that works out. People cry out "We want a WoW killer". Then when something comes out, they bitch and moan that its not as good as WoW. Well if you sit around complaining all the time about it, you're never gonna have anything that meets your expectations. Stop comparing every game to WoW.

Or better yet, don't play MMOs if you are bored of them. Its a time and money sink.

[lazygecko]

All games are time and money sinks.

[Chako]

any of you ever played lineage 2? i tried that one a while back.. it was pretty fun....ny lol

[liquid wind]

All games are time and money sinks.

it's a bit worse when on top of buying the game, they expect you to pay a monthly fee.

normal games are getting pretty bad with DLC that should have been in the game to begin with though

[Genoism]

i play wow and i've played lots of other mmo's. I think wow does have issues, most of which you've already mentioned. But tbh, why do u need the forums. I found a great casual raiding guild that doesn't suck. The people are great, they don't care if i don't log in for a month straight and still let me join their raids.

In the forums 50/50 chance that someone will agree with you and disagree. I can respect someone disagreeing but often you do get trolled....frankly im sure this is on ANY forum where people are passionate about some game. Especially if you dare to try and post something that would change it.

I NEVER understood how anyone could like grinds though. I can barely tolerate wow's grind. Whatever puts it into the head of those asian mmos that grinding is 'fun' is pathetic to say the least. I know some ppl consider grinding just killing mobs no questing but to me grinding is anything that u have to do to get to the end game action.

Oh ya, anyone on skullcrusher ?

[kitty]

Even though I hate grinding (just killing monsters for me), I can tolerate doing it with friends. Sometimes if I have to grind alone I'll watch a movie on my second monitor which makes the time fly by.

[Vilecat]

I won't repeat what Rama said; I agree for the most part.

As for the WoW forums, there'll always be jerks and elitists (and elitist jerks). Some of the boards in their official forum contain more than others (ex.: DPS is a whinefest compared to Tanking) and you're certain to run into trolls anywhere. The bigger and older the game, the more of those people you have a chance to meet. But at least you'll find the answers you're looking for faster.

It doesn't have to be a MMO forum though, any forum has their trolls and dickheads.

[Arcana]

Why are there so many trolls and dickheads, in general? Is it simply impossible to build a multiplayer game with a semi-decent community now? All of the "nice" people in forums are either on forums like this one (general topic) or on singleplayer games. What is it about multiplayer co-operative games turning people into dicks?

[DarkeSword]

Internet anonymity.

[Soul Splint]

Internet anonymity.

AMEN. If everything people said came with their picture, real name, and address, all this hostility would turn to hospitality in a hurry. Most of the time, you're dealing with people who do all of their venting from their repressed social lives online, because they know they won't be held accountable for it. Even in places like LIVE, where "you're not supposed to use slurs or profane language," no one cares because 99% of people do it. I've even played with friends who I know are decent guys, and they would astound me at how they turned into punks when they played online.

[Schwaltzvald]

Internet anonymity.

AMEN. If everything people said came with their picture, real name, and address, all this hostility would turn to farcical imitation of hospitality in a hurry. Most of the time, you're dealing with people who do all of their venting from their repressed social lives online in probably the most healthiest of ways because they know it's few places in life people are free to express themselves without retaliation. Even in places like LIVE, where people take things way too fucking serious, no one gives a shit about LIVE. I've even played with friends who I ought to know are "allegedly" decent folks; they would make me realize at how they sometimes turn into crowning moments of hilarity when they play online.

[Nekofrog]

Communities aside, because EVERYTHING is going to have a bunch of elitist assholes.

Other MMO's, not just asian ones, just don't get it.

EQ, FFXI, Maple Story, Lineage, Aion...they're ALL about grinding. Most of them have a TERRIBLE death penalty to set you BACK on leveling, the economies are super inflated, pretty much everything you said. It's kind of the Everquest business model. They have SO much emphasis on grinding for gold, grinding for levels, grinding for rare spawns to sell for gold, etc etc etc. That they're just not fun.

The reason WoW is fun, is kind of similar to the reason Ultima Online was fun. WoW IS very welcoming. Especially now. But don't think that there aren't a ton of people in WoW that don't wish it wasn't.

Right now if you left WoW a few monthes ago, and come back TODAY, though content has VASTLY expanded past you, you can pretty much pick up and get back in the game really quickly, and catch up with everyone else. Honestly who wants to spend MONTHES, years in some instances, levelling 1 character to max level, leaving for a few monthes, coming back and having to level MONTHES more? WoW realizes that the fun part of the game, for the most part right now, IS the end of the game. They help you get there, they don't make you suffer through it (for the most part) and when you do get there, if you want, you can pretty much jump into actually experiencing the game.

Obviously people would LOVE it if you had to suffer to level 60 like they did. If you had to grind for monthes and monthes and monthes to catch up to the game now. If you had to level to 60, then get to outland, get GOOD gear in outland, go through Northrend, hit 80, do normal instances until you're geared for heroics, do heroics until your'e geared for naxx 10, do naxx 10 until you're geared for ulduar, do ulduar until your'e geared for ToC, and THEN let you actually PLAY THE GAME, but blizzard is smart enough to not let that be the case.

They've even realized that the old world isn't really "the point" anymore, so they've made it easier to push you through it fast, and generally painlessly, while they take the time to fix it, and make it more like actually experiencing the game, rather than just rushing through what they used to think was a good idea.

WoW, essentially, tries REALLY HARD to help you enjoy yourself, whether or not you want to put in 2000000000 hours a week. It's the anti-MMO addict MMO, really. Which is generally why it's successful.

Since you haven't PLAYED many other MMOs, I guess I don't really expect you to know that, but WoW is VASTLY beyond all other MMOs on a lot of fronts. It could use work, sure, but other MMOs just aren't going in the right direction. They're video games. Video games are supposed to be a FUN thing you do in your spare time. Not something you make a part-time job out of a suffer through so that your ePeen grows 10 sizes.

I WILL say, though, coming from someone who's played WoW on and off since launch, and who's only SERIOUSLY played 1 other MMO EVER but knows a lot of other people who've played a LOT of other MMO's: WoW's push to get you to the fun part of the game makes the fun part of the game...get old very fast. I agree with you there. They don't add new content fast enough to keep it interesting, and there's very little incentive to go BACK and do OLD content to KEEP it interesting (though, they are making a bit of an attempt to fix that with the badge upgrades, and new weekly raid quests). Like last week, Tuesday came around, all my raids reset, I ran Trial of the Crusader 10 and 25 on my priest. Onyxia, Vault, the end. By Wednesday WoW was over (unless I wanted to level and alt, but I have no patience for that). Sure I could run heroics, or Naxx, or try to get into an Ulduar, but that stuff is old, and offers nothing interesting. Even ToC is getting boring now and it's hardly even 2 monthes old.

I do have faith in Blizzard, though. They fixed a LOT of things with Wrath (mostly with questing, the way you gear yourself endgame, and achievements to make things a little more intersting), and they're fixing a LOT more stuff with Cataclysm.

I would totally be open to TRYING another MMO if one of SUBSTANCE came a long (I've gone back to playing UO free servers a few times), but no one has even come close yet, and I can't figure out why =\

I notice you say EQ, but not EQ2. You should seriously give it a try. It's WOW done right.

Yes, I am saying WOW is an MMO done wrong.

[lazygecko]

EQ2 is WoW with the "hardcore" aspect intact, for better or worse. By hardcore I don't mean the grinding as much as how in-depth everything is.

[Schwaltzvald]

EQ2 is WoW with the "hardcore" aspect intact, for better or worse. By hardcore I don't mean the grinding as much as how in-depth everything is.

so...

WoW:Zelda64 as EQ2:Demon's Souls..?

Is that fair for me to say..?

[Nekofrog]

EQ2 is WoW with the "hardcore" aspect intact, for better or worse. By hardcore I don't mean the grinding as much as how in-depth everything is.

Yes and no. Hardcore, like you said, does not imply the negativeness that is usually used when describing an MMO. No grinding but you still can't take a character from 1-80 (is it capped at 80 still? been a while) in a few sittings like WoW. But there is still a clear progression, and no point where you're frustrated because you have to grind for something.

EQ2 admittedly started off very badly, but within 9 months they had turned the game around completely and never looked back. I've played a lot of MMOs (EQ, beta Vanguard, EQ2, Star Wars Galaxies, City of Heroes, etc), and I can easily say EQ2 was the best of them all.

CoH a distant second.

[Gollgagh]

so...

WoW:Zelda64 as EQ2:Demon's Souls..?

Is that fair for me to say..?

WoW : EQ2 :: Zelda64 : Demon's Soul's

if you're going to use proper analogy terminology

[lazygecko]

Well, I found some things a bit undesirable like how bloated spell rank handling is compared to WoW, but overall the steeper learning curve was part of the charm for me. I've also played a lot of MMOs and EQ2 is the one game I feel compelled to return to.

[Schwaltzvald]

WoW : EQ2 :: Zelda64 : Demon's Soul's

if you're going to use proper analogy terminology

fucking hell why didn't I notice it as it looked that way in my mind.

[Arcana]

Internet anonymity.

Why is the proportion of people on OCRemix or on my old Suikoden game forum comparatively nicer than on MMORPG boards, though?

Why were the respondents over here, on OCR, all like, "Well this is how things work in my experience" rather than, "LOL U NOOB HA HA UR BAD CAN'T HANDLE THE INTERNET CAN YA?"

Especially since the responses so far about "bad communities" have singled out MMORPGs. It's got to be more than just Internet anonymity.