OCR TF2: Stab stab stab!

[WindStrike]

Hey all. I'm sure some of you heard of that project I was working on that involved the whole modification of weapon attributes to attempt to create a new and (hopefully) balanced TF2 game. I'll probably be running it on IJ's server when I have it going...However, no fun hosting a mod when there's nobody to come and test it. If I could get an event up and running--would any of you be interested in attending?

Didn't even know that was possible. Just toss the event up on the OCR group and I'm many of us will be available for joining in on it.

[Cinderwild]

Hey all. I'm sure some of you heard of that project I was working on that involved the whole modification of weapon attributes to attempt to create a new and (hopefully) balanced TF2 game. I'll probably be running it on IJ's server when I have it going...However, no fun hosting a mod when there's nobody to come and test it. If I could get an event up and running--would any of you be interested in attending?

Could we get a list of the changes you're making?

[Gamemaster1379]

Could we get a list of the changes you're making?

Sure....it may take a while, however!

I'd kind of hoped to keep it a secret until gametime--maybe I'll do a few.

[Rambo]

Sure....it may take a while, however!

I'd kind of hoped to keep it a secret until gametime--maybe I'll do a few.

In before:

-removed demomen from the game

[Gamemaster1379]

In before:

-removed demomen from the game

Nah, that'd be scoot. I simply obligated Demoman to either DemoMAN or DemoKNIGHT.

[Cinderwild]

Just curious, how many of the server regulars have done remixes that got posted on the site?

[Kenogu Labz]

Working on one. Crazy judging queue's slooow, though.

DarkeSword is a 'mixer. Other than that, I can't think of any we'd consider regulars. A lot of our regulars gravitated here after playing on the server for awhile, if I recall correctly.

[Rambo]

Once upon a time, zircon, zyko and nekofrog were regulars.

[Gamemaster1379]

Oh what the Hell, I'll go ahead and post it. I'd like for it to stay around this community only though, if you all don't mind.

Scout

Base class changes

-Scattergun damage output has been changed from 6.0 to 5.5

-Scattergun fire interval increased by .075 seconds

-Scattergun spread increased by .0025

-Scout base HP decreased from 125 to 115

Items:

-New Shortstop Penalty: -25% damage done

-Bonk! Atomic Punch bonus: +1 capture rate on wearer

-Bonk! Atomic Punch penalty: -10 max health on wearer

-Mad Milk new penalty: 30% fire vulnerability on wearer

-Mad Milk new penalty: -25% health from healers on wearer

-Sandman penalty removed: -15 max health on wearer

-Sandman new penalty: -25% health from packs on wearer

Soldier

Base class changes:

-Base move speed increased to 245 from 240

Items:

-Direct Hit change: Damage bonus of 25% has been reduced to 15%

-Direct Hit new bonus: +15 health on hit

-Direct Hit Change: Projectile speed of 80% has been reduced to 70%

-Direct Hit change: No longer mini-crits airborne targets

-Rocket Jumper change: -100 Health on wearer penalty removed

-Black Box change: -25% clip removed

-Black Box change: No longer heals +15 health on hit

-Black Box new bonus: +25% explosion radius

-Black Box new bonus: +25% damage vs buildings

-Black box new penalty: -25% projectile speed

-Gunboats change: -60% blast damage from Rocket jumps removed

-Gunboats new bonus: No self inflicted blast damage

-Gunboats new bonus: -15% explosive damage on wearer

-Gunboats new penalty: -20% self damage force

-Buff Banner new bonus: +5% faster move speed on wearer

-Buff Banner new penalty: +10% bullet damage vulnerability on wearer

-Battallion's Backup new bonus: +10% bullet damage resistance on wearer

-Battalion's Backup new penalty: 5% slower move speed on wearer

-Equalizer change: Can be healed by medics when weapon is out

-Equalizer change: No longer increases damage output or speed when damaged

-Equalizer new bonus: 50% faster weapon switch

-Equalizer new penalty: -25% damage done

-Equalizer new penalty: No random critical hits

-Pain Train change: 10% bullet damage vulnerability on wearer removed

-Pain Train change: +1 capture rate on Wearer removed

-Pain Train new bonus: +25% self damage force

-Pain Train new penalty: -15 max health on wearer

Pyro

Items:

-Backburner change: Airblast restriction has been removed

-Backbuner chnge: +15% Damage Done bonus removed

-Backburner new bonus: +50% Burn Damage

-Backburner new penalty:-50% burn duration

-Backburner new penalty: -25% max primary ammo on wearer

-Degreaser change: -25% burn damage reduced

-Degreaser change: +65% faster weapon switch

-Degreanser new attribute: Airblast can now be charged, which will push enemies further

-Degreaser new bonus: -25% flamethrower ammo consumed per second

-Degreaser new penalty: +150% airblast cost

-Flare Gun new bonus: 45% faster weapon switch

-Axtinguisher change: No crit vs non-burning players removed

-Axtinguisher change: Crit vs burning players removed

-Axtinguisher change: -50% damage vs nonburning removed

-Axtinguisher new bonus: On Hit: Bleed for 8 seconds

-Axtinguisher new penalty: -50% damage done

-Axtinguisher new penalty: No Random crits

-Homewrecker change: -25% damage done removed

-Homewrecker new bonus: 900% damage vs buildings

-Homewrecker new bonus: +20% sentry damage resistance

-Homewrecker new penalty: 100% slower firing speed

-The Powerjack change: +75 health restored on kill removed

-The Powerjack change: +20% damage done removed

-The Powerjack new bonus: On Kill: 5 seconds of 100% critical chance

-The Powerjack new penalty: -20% damage done

Demo

Base class changes:

-Base health reduced from 175 to 167

Items:

-Scottish Resistance change: .8 sec bomb time delay penalty removed

-Scottish Resistance new penalty: -25% explosion radius

-Scottish Resistance new penalty: -33% damage done

-Scottish Resistance change: +6 max pipebombs out increased to +8

-Chargin' Targe change: fire damage resistance reduced to 20% from 50%

-Chargin' Targe new bonus: 10% bullet damage resistance on wearer

-Chargin' Targe new penalty: 20% longer weapon switch

-The Sticky Jumper change: -75 health on wearer removed

-Eyelander change: -25 health on wearer removed

-Eyelander new penalty: -50% health from packs on wearer

-Scotsman's Skullcutter change: -20% move speed reduced

-Scotsman's Skullcutter new penalty: 30% longer weapon switch

-Pain Train change: 10% bullet damage vulnerability on wearer removed

-Pain Train change: +1 capture rate on Wearer removed

-Pain Train new bonus: +25% self damage force

-Pain Train new penalty: -15 max health on wearer

Heavy

Items:

-Natascha change: On Hit: 100% chance to slow target removed

-Natascha new bonus: +50% faster deployed movespeed on wearer

-Natascha new bonus: 25% faster spin up time

-Dalokohs Bar new attribute: When Weapon is active:

-Dalokohs Bar new bonus: +25 max health on wearer

-Dalokohs Bar new bonus: Adds +50 max health on wearer for 30 seconds

-Dalokohs Bar new bonus: +6 health regenerated per second on wearer

-Killing Gloves of Boxing change: Firing speed penalty changed from 20% to 50%.

-Killing Gloves of Boxing change: Critboost on Kill for 5 seconds removed

-Killing Gloves of Boxing new bonus: +50% damage done

-Killing Gloves of Boxing new bonus: On Hit: +15 health

-Gloves of Running Urgently change: -50% damage done changed to -66% damage done

-Gloves of Running Urgently new bonus: +75 health restored on kill

Engineer

Items:

-Frontier Justice change: -50% clip size removed

-Frontier Justice new penalty: 50% slower firing speed

-Frontier Justice new penalty: 50% slower reload time

-Gunslinger change: +25 max health on wearer removed

-Gunslinger new bonus: +25% max metal on wearer

-Gunslinger new bonus: +100% faster construction rate

-Gunslinger new penalty: 100% slower repair rate (Cannot upgrade)

-Southern Hospitality change: Bleed on hit for 5 seconds removed

-Southern Hospitality change: 20% fire vulnerability on wearer removed

-Southern Hospitality new bonus: +20% metal regenerated every 5 seconds on wearer

-Southern Hospitality new bonus: +100% damage vs buildings

-Southern Hospitality new penalty: -10% max metal on wearer

-Southern Hospitality new penalty: 50% slower construction rate

Medic

Items:

-Blutsauger change: -2 health drained per second on wearer removed

-Blutsauger change penalty: -50% health from packs on wearer

-Kritzkrieg change: +25% faster ubercharge changed to +20%

-Kritzkrieg new bonus: +10 longer overheal time

-Ubersaw change: -20% firing rate removed

-Ubersaw change: +25% UberCharge added on hit changed to +10%

-Ubersaw new bonus: +50% faster firing speed

-Ubersaw new penalty: -66% damage done

-Ubersaw new penalty: No random critical hits

-Ubersaw new penalty: 20% explosive damage vulnerability on wearer

-The Vita-saw change: +20% UberCharge stored on death removed

-The Vita-saw new bonus: On Hit: +3 health

-The Vita-saw new bonus: On Hit: Bleed for 3 seconds

-The Vita-saw new penalty: 50% slower firing speed

Sniper

Items:

-Huntsman change: Hidden maxammo secondary attribute changed to .8

-Sydney Sleeper change: No longer Jarates targets

-Sydney Sleeper change: Can now headshot

-Sydney Sleeper new bonus: On Hit: Bleed for 4 seconds

-Sydney Sleeper new penalty: 75% slower firing speed

-Sydney Sleeper new penalty: 100% slower power charge

-Razorback new bonus: +20% bullet damage resistance on wearer

-Darwin's Danger Shield change: +25 health on wearer removed

-Darwin's Danger Shield new bonus: +20% fire damage resistance on wearer

-Darwin's danger Shield new bonus: +20% explosive damage on wearer

-Tribalman's Shiv change: On Hit: Bleed for 6 seconds removed

-Tribalman's Shiv change: -50% damage done removed

-Tribalman's Shiv new bonus: On hit: 100% change to slow target

-Tribalman's Shiv new penalty: 33% longer weapon switch.

-The Bushwhacka change: Crits when it would normally mini-crit removed

-Bushwhacka change: 10% fire vulnerability on wearer removed

-Bushwhacka new bonus: +50% faster firing speed

-Bushwhacka new penalty: -66% damage done

-Bushwhacka new penalty: -15 max health on wearer.

Spy

Items:

-Ambassador change: Crits on accurate headshot removed

-Ambassador change: -15% damage done removed

-Ambassador new bonus: +100% damage done

-Ambassador new bonus: +25 cloak on kill

-Ambassador new penalty: -83% clip size

-Ambassador new penalty: -50% primary max ammo on wearer

-Ambassador new penalty: 100% slower reload time

-L'etranger change: -20% damage done changed to -50% damage done

-L'etranger change: No longer awards 15 cloak on hit

-L'etranger new bonus: Crits on accurate headshot

-L'etranger new bonus: Reudced decloak sound volume

-L'etranger new penalty: -50% damage done

-L'etranger new penalty: Wearer cannot disguise

-Your Eternal Reward change: Wearer can disguise

-Your Eternal Reward new penalty: 15 sec slower disguise speed on wearer

Polycount Set Bonus Modifications

Set Bonus Requirements:

-All Set Bonuses no longer require the Polycount set hat

The Special Delivery:

-Set Bonus change: +25 health on wearer removed

-Set Bonus new bonus: +50% health from packs on wearer

The Tank Buster:

-Set Bonus change:10% damage resistance from sentries removed

-Set Bonus new bonus: +25% more max overheal

Gas Jockey Gear:

-Set Bonus change: 10% move speed bonus removed

-Set Bonus new bonus: +25 max health on wearer

Croc-o-Style Kit:

-10% faster move speed on wearer

Saharan Spy:

-10% faster move speed on wearer

Misc Modifications

Ghastly Gibus:

-Now named "Unusual Ghastly Gibus"

-New particle effect: Searing Plasma

Ghastlier Gibus:

-Now named "Unusual Ghastlier Gibus"

-New particle effect: Searing Plasma

[Brushfire]

Once upon a time, zircon, zyko and nekofrog were regulars.

Neko has been playing more often these days, now that he is out of Tech School.

[Bleck]

-Your Eternal Reward change: Wearer can disguise

-Your Eternal Reward new penalty: 15 sec slower disguise speed on wearer

strike one

-The Vita-saw change: +20% UberCharge stored on death removed

-The Vita-saw new bonus: On Hit: +3 health

-The Vita-saw new bonus: On Hit: Bleed for 3 seconds

-The Vita-saw new penalty: 50% slower firing speed

strike two

-The Powerjack new bonus: On Kill: 5 seconds of 100% critical chance

-The Powerjack new penalty: -20% damage done

you're out

[Powerlord]

Oh what the Hell, I'll go ahead and post it. I'd like for it to stay around this community only though, if you all don't mind.

When you said you were making some changes, I figured you were making a FEW changes.

This is WAY too many, and just glancing at the list, many of them are questionable as to why they've been changed (Gunslinger, Frontier Justice, Ambassador, L'Etranger, Saharan Spy just from the two classes I play the most)

[DarkeSword]

Let's please not start getting into discussions about the game balance of someone's house rules. Arguing about the actual game gets bad enough.

[Brushfire]

Let's please not start getting into discussions about the game balance of someone's house rules. Arguing about the actual game gets bad enough.

Demoman is OP.

I love you DS!!

[RussellChamp]

Oh what the Hell, I'll go ahead and post it. I'd like for it to stay around this community only though, if you all don't mind.

Hahahahaha! Some of those changes were hilarious! It would totally be funny to play on a server like that where most veterans suddenly had no idea how weapons and mechanics changed. I did some silly modding of my own once (only for local matches against computers) and made stuff like rocket launchers that would rapid fire, had 999 ammo, always critted, and had an obscenely large blast radius.

I'm not here to argue about balance. I'm here to have fun. We'll see how fun it is once you have it up. Give us a post when that happens!

[WindStrike]

Hahahahaha! Some of those changes were hilarious! It would totally be funny to play on a server like that where most veterans suddenly had no idea how weapons and mechanics changed. I did some silly modding of my own once (only for local matches against computers) and made stuff like rocket launchers that would rapid fire, had 999 ammo, always critted, and had an obscenely large blast radius.

I'm not here to argue about balance. I'm here to have fun. We'll see how fun it is once you have it up. Give us a post when that happens!

Agreed. Although I'm personally iffy on some of those changes myself, it's a mod meant for a different experience and take on the game. Got a test date yet?

[Krug]

Demo

Base class changes:

-Base health reduced from 175 to 167

Kind of an odd number but eh, I guess it could be worse. As long as I can still hack some heads with my usual amount of satisfaction.

[Aeronaut]

When you said you were making some changes, I figured you were making a FEW changes.

This is WAY too many, and just glancing at the list, many of them are questionable as to why they've been changed (Gunslinger, Frontier Justice, Ambassador, L'Etranger, Saharan Spy just from the two classes I play the most)

Gunslinger has been changed to effectively allow the Engineer to expedite the entire build process and make all of his buildings somewhat expendable. It's not all that different from the current Gunslinger build, really.

Frontier Justice fires slower and reloads slower. It has a larger clip size compared to the current one, yes, but when you exhaust that, your refire rate is horrific. It's also comparatively worse in close combat due to its firing rate, but with the revenge crits mechanic, it encourages one to aim a bit more carefully when unloading said crits. Don't ask me why- I don't know- but having tried it out last night, it seems to work splendidly.

Ambassador has been changed into a hand cannon. Tremendous damage, but only one shot per clip and the reload/refire time is enormous. If you hit with that one shot, you will take down pretty much anything at close range (noting, however, that it CANNOT one-shot anything from full health at close range unless it crits), but you're screwed if you miss. I need to remember to remind Gamemaster to nerf it against buildings, though. I believe it can currently take down a minisentry in one hit at range, which is problematic.

L'Etranger is now a stealth weapon. You sacrifice firepower in a very large way to gain silent decloaking. Not sure why the lack of disguise kit is there, though. That strikes me as odd, though I could have sworn there was some kind of roundabout reasoning for it.

Saharan Spy is, I think, meant to have +10% movement speed bonus (not minus).

On a somewhat completely different note, as mentioned in passing above, several of us had the chance to try the mod out last night. It was incredibly fun, but it does need a few tweaks. Offhand, I know Gamemaster will be nerfing the movement speed on Natascha's in-mod incarnation and trying to figure out why the Equalizer has a Shovel kill-icon.

[Cinderwild]

I gotta say, I love how Scout can now die in one rocket and every one of his nearly useless unlocks is made even more useless.

[ParanoidDrone]

Aero, Minisentries have 100 HP IIRC, and an Ambassador that does double Revolver damage would only do 80. Remember that buildings ignore falloff.

I'm going to deliberately not comment on the changelog because then I'd be here all day and I have stuff to do.

[Cinderwild]

Bleed effects are the worst thing in the game and adding them to sniper rifle makes me want to tear my eyes out.

[Rambo]

What does this mean?

-Gunboats new penalty: -20% self damage force

Also, I'm looking forward to exploiting some of these changes.

Saharan Spy is, I think, meant to have +10% movement speed bonus (not minus).

Silly Aero, that "-" is a bullet point, not a negation.

[XeroZohar]

Aw crap, I missed the test run of this mod? D:

[Gamemaster1379]

Kind of an odd number but eh, I guess it could be worse. As long as I can still hack some heads with my usual amount of satisfaction.

In fact, it should be improved. I took off the move speed penalty--you're just more obligated to use the Skullcutter now. No quick pipes.

When you said you were making some changes, I figured you were making a FEW changes.

This is WAY too many, and just glancing at the list, many of them are questionable as to why they've been changed (Gunslinger, Frontier Justice, Ambassador, L'Etranger, Saharan Spy just from the two classes I play the most)

You know what they say about people who assume, Powelord. My intent was to create a whole new gamestyle. Not the same game with a few tweaks here and there. Their counterparts are perfectly fine, I agree. The intent wasn't to fix what's broken, it's to be totally new.

Let's please not start getting into discussions about the game balance of someone's house rules. Arguing about the actual game gets bad enough.

Well, it is nice to have input to improve upon this--though I think the method of going about it could be...improved. This is likely best said on the server and not this topic. Reading something and experiencing it are two different things.

Hahahahaha! Some of those changes were hilarious! It would totally be funny to play on a server like that where most veterans suddenly had no idea how weapons and mechanics changed. I did some silly modding of my own once (only for local matches against computers) and made stuff like rocket launchers that would rapid fire, had 999 ammo, always critted, and had an obscenely large blast radius.

I'm not here to argue about balance. I'm here to have fun. We'll see how fun it is once you have it up. Give us a post when that happens!

That's the spirit! And yeah, to the "pros" who have it boiled down to a science, it's nice to throw them for a loop while having a new and enjoyable experience.

Gunslinger has been changed to effectively allow the Engineer to expedite the entire build process and make all of his buildings somewhat expendable. It's not all that different from the current Gunslinger build, really.

Frontier Justice fires slower and reloads slower. It has a larger clip size compared to the current one, yes, but when you exhaust that, your refire rate is horrific. It's also comparatively worse in close combat due to its firing rate, but with the revenge crits mechanic, it encourages one to aim a bit more carefully when unloading said crits. Don't ask me why- I don't know- but having tried it out last night, it seems to work splendidly.

Ambassador has been changed into a hand cannon. Tremendous damage, but only one shot per clip and the reload/refire time is enormous. If you hit with that one shot, you will take down pretty much anything at close range (noting, however, that it CANNOT one-shot anything from full health at close range unless it crits), but you're screwed if you miss. I need to remember to remind Gamemaster to nerf it against buildings, though. I believe it can currently take down a minisentry in one hit at range, which is problematic.

L'Etranger is now a stealth weapon. You sacrifice firepower in a very large way to gain silent decloaking. Not sure why the lack of disguise kit is there, though. That strikes me as odd, though I could have sworn there was some kind of roundabout reasoning for it.

Saharan Spy is, I think, meant to have +10% movement speed bonus (not minus).

On a somewhat completely different note, as mentioned in passing above, several of us had the chance to try the mod out last night. It was incredibly fun, but it does need a few tweaks. Offhand, I know Gamemaster will be nerfing the movement speed on Natascha's in-mod incarnation and trying to figure out why the Equalizer has a Shovel kill-icon.

Aeronaut hit the nail on the head for the most part with these modifications. The only thing is that as stated by Rambo, it is a bullet. There is a 10% bonus. Perhaps I mistyped in the update.

I gotta say, I love how Scout can now die in one rocket and every one of his nearly useless unlocks is made even more useless.

I thought he always could. :U And Cinder, I had no input from anybody I asked about Scout. The only people who had input were two Scoot haters--of course he isn't going to benefit! :U This isn't a final mod, however. Suggest some changes and they may very well be implemented

Bleed effects are the worst thing in the game and adding them to sniper rifle makes me want to tear my eyes out.

Again, not a final mod, it may change. Additionally, it seemed like a better alternative to Jarate---and in fact, it's ultimately weaker. No ~450 headshots. It's ultimately weaker in theory. It seemed like a good idea too until....Lumpy used it.

Aw crap, I missed the test run of this mod? D:

Yeah, you did. It wasn't MEANT to be a full party--but it ended up being one in no time flat....Oops!

[IRJustman]

Yeah, you did. It wasn't MEANT to be a full party--but it ended up being one in no time flat....Oops!

What: Frogg wants to give the Heavy's retooled toolset a try as well as for those who missed the first time last night.

When: This will be at about 1830 PST (2130 EST), which is about when Frogg wanted to do this thang, but I can certainly be coerced into starting it sooner. ;D

Where: My server, tee-eff-two.ian-justman.com (173.12.223.108)

Gameplay rules are much the same as OCR's TF2 servers. Decorum rules have been tuned to my own personal liking, and, at times, diverge greatly from OCR's own.

Hope to see you there.

--Ian.