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The Extra Credits thread!! EC is amazing!


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I have totally been slacking :( Which is way not cool, especially after the super duper generous plug they gave me in their last episode!

Someone come slap me around a little bit!

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Bumpity bump bump.

Looks like the newest episode has really pushed a few buttons, here. It's generating roughly 4-5 times more response than their average episode. It's also something worth talking about here.

Any thoughts on the 'Harassment' episode of EC?

I am in total agreement with the EC guys (and Allison). They stated in one of their first episodes that we need to crackdown on gamers that ruin our reputation. You agree (mostly unknowingly) when joining XBOX Live or any other service to treat other players with respect, or face the ban-hammer. Companies should use that power more liberally.

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I am in total agreement with the EC guys (and Allison). They stated in one of their first episodes that we need to crackdown on gamers that ruin our reputation. You agree (mostly unknowingly) when joining XBOX Live or any other service to treat other players with respect, or face the ban-hammer. Companies should use that power more liberally.

i don't get why things like this aren't policed by i dunno the *real* police

i'm not saying i want someone to arrest me for typing 'make me a sandwich' but real legitimate stuff should be reportable to a higher authority than the one who bans you for three months while you make another account to do it again

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i don't get why things like this aren't policed by i dunno the *real* police

i'm not saying i want someone to arrest me for typing 'make me a sandwich' but real legitimate stuff should be reportable to a higher authority than the one who bans you for three months while you make another account to do it again

It's an issue regarding free speech. Hateful speech is protected under the US Constitution until it explicitly encourages a violation of law (don't know about other countries, but I think it's the same). Misogyny and hate cannot be regulated by the police, so it's up to the service provider to provide a safe playing environment. Only when players frequently harass or stalk other players to the point of breaking laws (i.e. frequent death threats) will police intervene, and by that point the offending player is usually banned or blocked.

If anyone wants to discuss this further, I suggest making a new thread about it. Don't want to ruin the EC thread!

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Honestly the only practical option I see that respects the rights of everyone(because we don't live in a fascist society) is to mute people. As much as the EC gang likes to put it in their video, this isn't just a gamer issue; It's a much larger societal problem that doesn't show any sign of slowing down any time soon.

Microsoft and other platform holders are on a slippery slope since they have to worry about which groups will provide the most revenue, which is ultimately what they as companies are trying to obtain. The best they can do is provide the aforementioned mute option if things really get out of hand. Online gaming allows you to play with anyone, but you get to choose whether or not you want to play/interact with everyone.

Really, I don't know what can be done to stop sexist, racist, homophobic attitudes aside from dealing with the smallest social unit around(the family) that will essentially nip the problem in the bud. I don't mean superficial solutions like on-the-job sensitivity training either. All that does is bury the problem temporarily in certain contexts. I'm talking straight up killing the problem like a nasty cockroach. Can that even be done? The KKK is still around after all.

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It's an issue regarding free speech. Hateful speech is protected under the US Constitution until it explicitly encourages a violation of law (don't know about other countries, but I think it's the same). Misogyny and hate cannot be regulated by the police, so it's up to the service provider to provide a safe playing environment. Only when players frequently harass or stalk other players to the point of breaking laws (i.e. frequent death threats) will police intervene, and by that point the offending player is usually banned or blocked.

Actually, continuous harassment that has no purpose other than to annoy or verbally assault a person generally breaks harassment laws (from what I gather, the law varies from state to state). The case that you're exemplifying is aggravated harassment, which is pretty serious (possibly a felony, even), but it doesn't need to be that serious to be against the law.

Free speech only applies when there is a purpose other than assaulting another person. When you're only harassing someone for the sake of harassing the person, it actually is illegal. The problem is that it's not a serious enough offense for the police to investigate every single case (especially on gaming and the internet, where it's incredibly rampant AND anonymous), unless it's aggravated harassment. I'd imagine the police have more important matters to deal with than one person ruining the online experience of another, unfortunately.

If anyone wants to discuss this further, I suggest making a new thread about it. Don't want to ruin the EC thread!

I don't think the EC crew would mind; it was their idea, really. Making a new thread might not be a bad idea, though - go for it.

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It's an issue regarding free speech.

Not really.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm reasonably certain the good behaviour clause in the LIVE EULA overrides the general decree of free speech, because you're using a service they set up for private use, as opposed to talking to your friend on a public street.

This is just speculation, but given Microsoft's conservatism, I would guess that they think the bad press for a sudden draconian shift in their enforcement policies would outweigh the relative gains in users' experience online. I personally think that's a bad call, mostly for the reasons outlined in the video, but I can see why they would look at it in such a way.

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In my opinion, just because Microsoft is an American corporation, it doesn't need to hold to the US constitution in it's online policy, as it is an ONLINE policy, and the internet should be free (but that lies under a completely different argument).

That being said, while it is necessary for Microsoft to take action, it is most important for the player. If there is a solo-mute function, the player should take it. If not, they should leave a game, and tell the other person why you don't want to play with them, rude as you may feel. Just leaving is okay, but it doesn't hold the same weight as actively approaching the person with such disregard for environment that these "bullies" do. The player is the key variable here. They need to perform some act of protest. And if we can't do this, I think the only right thing to do is protest boycott live game platforms altogether. If we aren't ready for it, we aren't ready for it. This problem has gone unfixed long enough, and my generation has been a critical source of blame for it. I'm frankly done. In a way of speaking, either resist, or do away with the battlefield.

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I agree with the EC team about this issue. I like the sound of the auto mute idea, but I'm not sure how effective it would be, better than the current system maybe. For Xbox Live, you can report offending players and "review" them, I would imagine PSN has similar features. The only potential problem I can see with auto mute is that some players mute everyone because they don't want to hear anybody, which is what I find myself doing when I play online. Sure, you can go into account settings and switch off voice chat, but I find it much easier to mute players in game.

As for trying to prosecute online harassment, it's hard to do, given the anonymity. Police are focusing their online crime fighting on things like sexual predators. Also, when does it cross the line from competitive outbursts to harassment? I'm not sure where that line is to be drawn.

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I've heard dissent against auto-mute, but I don't know if it would be as bad as people speculate. The most common problem is that it would allow bullies to abuse it, but if it's a percentage based issue rather than a 'If a person is muted 'X' number of times' sort of thing then the people muting to abuse the system would need to SIGNIFICANTLY outdo the people that are muting in order to have any affect on the game. As long as players continue to do what they normally do (that is, simply mute the offending player) then there will be no problem with abuse.

Another common complaint is that there will be no chance for redemption for the offensive players if they remain on auto-mute, and again this will not be an issue for most players, either, if the system is based on a percentage. In essence, once the people that have been muted reaches over 10% of the community (and from what I hear about online gaming, this wouldn't take long), the people who were muted the least in that 10% would lose the auto-mute feature. If they behave then great, they can have their voice back, but if not they'll go right back into the muted section while some other person gets a shot at freedom.

The concern that I personally have with that system is that unless someone has some metrics on how many players are assholes on the games that this is being implemented on, there's a chance that either the percentage isn't high enough (so some people will never be auto-muted, even when they deserve it) or that the percentage will be too high (some unlucky players that play fair will suffer from auto-mute, as a result). A solid percentage will not be able to tell the entire story, after all.

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The concern that I personally have with that system is that unless someone has some metrics on how many players are assholes on the games that this is being implemented on, there's a chance that either the percentage isn't high enough (so some people will never be auto-muted, even when they deserve it) or that the percentage will be too high (some unlucky players that play fair will suffer from auto-mute, as a result). A solid percentage will not be able to tell the entire story, after all.

Good point, I haven't really thought about the percentage thing. I can see that being a problem.

As much as the EC gang likes to put it in their video, this isn't just a gamer issue; It's a much larger societal problem that doesn't show any sign of slowing down any time soon.

I didn't hear them say this is only a gamer issue. Yes, racism and sexism and such exist everywhere. However, I think such an attitude just glosses over these issues in gaming. We should focus on gaming, because, after all, we are gamers. One thing at a time. Addressing issues from a standpoint of society as a whole doesn't ever produce meaningful solutions, it's just too broad.

I honestly think hate speech, misogyny, and racism is more prevalent in the online gaming community because of the anonymity and competitive nature of the activity. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've heard a lot of shit said on Xbox Live that I would never hear in mainstream society, at least in my experience. Or maybe I've lived a sheltered life, I don't know.

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