Preset Hate

[J.L.Condon]

Ok, so I checked around and didn't see a thread about presets, which is surprising, given how many people bash others for using presets.

One thing I've noted is that presets are looked down on by so many people. Presets are a useful short cut in creating songs and they save us time in creating our own synths, but when people use presets in a song, everyone jumps all over them.

So, I'm wondering, why are presets frowned upon?

[Dafydd]

To some people, it's the same with using drum loops - to them, it's like taking someone else's melody or lyrics and putting your name on it, I guess. Dunno why no one ever complains about acoustic instrumentation in the same way though.

"Man, you used violins in your song? You so stole that from Mozart (or whoever)."

Myself, I'm a lot more bothered by how some artists always use the same presets in all of their songs.

[Level 99]

I pretty much only use presets, and/or slightly tweaked presets in order to achieve my results. If a preset gets you the desired sound, why not use it? I understand the purity and feeling of creation when someone makes their own synth sound, but some people a) don't have the knack for it, don't have the time to learn it (less of an excuse though) and c) might just be happy with the way a preset sounds.

I also failed to see why it is bad to use a drum loop.

[lazygecko]

I've got tons of presets. I almost never use them as is though, I often tweak them until they become almost unrecognizable. It's got me thinking about getting into sound design.

Some people just want to create music right away and don't have the interest/time for the process of creating their own sounds. I don't think I've ever seen someone claim there's something wrong with that.

As for drum loops I often layer them together with my own sequenced drums.

[Dafydd]

I also failed to see why it is bad to use a drum loop.

Yeah, that came out wrong. I meant to say some people are against presets for the same reason they're against drum loops - you didn't make the whole thing yourself, and to them, that's a bad thing, because you take credit for something you didn't do. Why people of this opinion even bother coming to a place like this is beyond me, but there you go.

[Brushfire]

Boom Tiss, Boom Boom Tiss.

Repeat forever.

Grammies will start rolling in.

[DarkeSword]

I use presets all the time.

[Rozovian]

As someone who prefers to at least tweak ALL presets I use and filter or otherwise mangle whatever loops I use, I might be able to answer the OP's question.

I don't like having other ppl's footprints in my art. While I can't make everything from scratch (presets->synths->DAW->computer and OS->electricity), I prefer not relying too heavily on other ppl's work when creating my own stuff. That means I sometimes make my own sounds from initialized patches on the synths I use (which is a great way to learn how the synth, and synthesis in general, works), and when opportunity comes to use them, I do. That way, I can also provide a bit of continuity between songs. You'll hear the same fake shaker I made for Beyond Velocity in some of my other tracks as well. Same with the bass drop I found and modified for Braincooler. I based Aurora Australis on the sounds of Aurora Borealis.

While I don't spend as much time designing my own sounds these days, I do want to modify whatever sounds I wanna use to make them more my own. Same with loops. Most of the drums in Eye of the Storm are from a single GarageBand loop. They're just filtered to keep them from being too recognizable, and for me to be a little more creative with them.

I guess that's really what it comes down to - creativity. If you build your own sounds, your sound design is more yours than someone who just uses presets and loops. You probably don't wanna hear the same presets in every song by everyone.

Maybe it's also a skill-related thing. Even if there's a thousand synths out there, most ppl will use the default ones that came with their DAW, or a handful of big names. Recognizing presets tells you what they're using, and reveals that they didn't design their own sounds. Maybe they don't know how. If I know, then I'm "obviously" better than them.

idunno, I just like sounding more like me than like Omnisphere's presets.

[Dafydd]

I think Rozo sums it up pretty well. Consider someone with his view, only more extreme, and on other people's music rather than his own. To someone like that, using a preset is like putting a disclaimer on your album saying "OH HI I USED PATCH ### FROM THE ### SAMPLE PACK. ALSO I'M A NOOB". Not saying they're right, definitely not saying Rozo is like this.

[PROTO·DOME]

Recently, I've noticed that if there's a chiptuney kinda piece on TV, they most probably will be using the toad kit.

[Garian]

From what I've observed, people don't necessarily hate presets so much as they mock the people that clearly don't understand very much about the software they're using and their songs come out with very obvious and familiar sounds. The part that gets really tricky is when the person decides to have a bad attitude about it thinking that he's making the freshest beats this side of bel-aire instead of admitting that he's new to the whole digital musician thing. If the song is made with obvious patches for popular synths, chances are pretty good that someone will point it out, sometimes in a less-than-positive fashion.

That's not to say that ALL presets are like this, if you're using some custom high-end sample pack for which you just paid out the ass, you are probably not going to need to adjust it as much as say... a pack of Synth1 presets that has been making the rounds on IRC (there is no such pack to my knowledge, just making an example). Time and place, y'know?

That said, no amount of tweaking will ever save Slayer Guitar.

[Benjamin Briggs]

I rarely ever use a preset exactly as-is, but it's a great starting point for many of the more complicated vsti's

normally I hate ALL the effects and turn them off so I can add my own, and I usually tweak it very carefully to suit my articulation needs

actually being able to utilize presets fully is all about understanding what the damned knobs do

edit: agree with proto that peach, toad, and triforce are now EVERYWHERE and it's awesome

[Nabeel Ansari]

It depends what presets. If you mean presets of a synth that's more than a few years old, it sounds really aged, simple, and uninteresting. The people who get jumped on for using presets are simply so because they used bad presets, and are lectured on using presets simply because it's a recognizable and popular sound.

[Flexstyle]

From what I've observed, people don't necessarily hate presets so much as they mock the people that clearly don't understand very much about the software they're using and their songs come out with very obvious and familiar sounds. The part that gets really tricky is when the person decides to have a bad attitude about it thinking that he's making the freshest beats this side of bel-aire instead of admitting that he's new to the whole digital musician thing. If the song is made with obvious patches for popular synths, chances are pretty good that someone will point it out, sometimes in a less-than-positive fashion.

That's not to say that ALL presets are like this, if you're using some custom high-end sample pack for which you just paid out the ass, you are probably not going to need to adjust it as much as say... a pack of Synth1 presets that has been making the rounds on IRC (there is no such pack to my knowledge, just making an example). Time and place, y'know?

That said, no amount of tweaking will ever save Slayer Guitar.

This sums up my feelings almost exactly. I see nothing wrong with using your resources, provided you use them in a creative manner, but the totally preset-laden generic rap beat or "techno" song really annoys me. Don't even get me started on the Black Eyed Peas, haha.

[Omni-Psyence]

I love presets! Especially when they are inspiring and can get me the right emotional content straight out of the box. However I also enjoy sound design and I tweak every sound patch I use. I think that's a really good way of learning synthesis anyway!

[Brandon Strader]

Get preset, put bitcrusher on it = success

[Power Smoothie]

I have nothing against the use of presets in music (or loops and sample packs, for that matter) but I think it's slightly disappointing that some people don't ever explore the possibilities that synths offer. I still think it's amazing that a synth lets you actually create a new sound and I wish more people were inclined to experiment.

[Sixto]

I love Nexus because of the presetssss. I use it more often than even Omnisphere. I don't like using drum loops, though, unless I mash them up a lot. I hate when I can hear a loop in a song and know that's it's the same loop I've heard elsewhere before.

[Rozovian]

I love presets! Especially when they are inspiring and can get me the right emotional content straight out of the box. However I also enjoy sound design and I tweak every sound patch I use. I think that's a really good way of learning synthesis anyway!

When I have no particular sound in mind, I jsut load up Omnisphere, pick something at random and play something to see how it sounds. Often times, that becomes the basis for the track. Still, I tend to swap out the soundsources or add some fm to make the sound more my own.

I first hated loops because I couldn't write whatever notes I wanted with them, now I think they're an acceptable _part_ of the rhythm instrumentation of a mix. Unless they're used straight out of the box, raw, and with no variation.

[Nabeel Ansari]

I love Nexus because of the presetssss. I use it more often than even Omnisphere. I don't like using drum loops, though, unless I mash them up a lot. I hate when I can hear a loop in a song and know that's it's the same loop I've heard elsewhere before.

I usually slice'n'splice drum loops.

[ambient]

As someone who prefers to at least tweak ALL presets I use and filter or otherwise mangle whatever loops I use, I might be able to answer the OP's question.

I don't like having other ppl's footprints in my art. While I can't make everything from scratch (presets->synths->DAW->computer and OS->electricity), I prefer not relying too heavily on other ppl's work when creating my own stuff. That means I sometimes make my own sounds from initialized patches on the synths I use (which is a great way to learn how the synth, and synthesis in general, works), and when opportunity comes to use them, I do. That way, I can also provide a bit of continuity between songs. You'll hear the same fake shaker I made for Beyond Velocity in some of my other tracks as well. Same with the bass drop I found and modified for Braincooler. I based Aurora Australis on the sounds of Aurora Borealis.

While I don't spend as much time designing my own sounds these days, I do want to modify whatever sounds I wanna use to make them more my own. Same with loops. Most of the drums in Eye of the Storm are from a single GarageBand loop. They're just filtered to keep them from being too recognizable, and for me to be a little more creative with them.

I guess that's really what it comes down to - creativity. If you build your own sounds, your sound design is more yours than someone who just uses presets and loops. You probably don't wanna hear the same presets in every song by everyone.

Maybe it's also a skill-related thing. Even if there's a thousand synths out there, most ppl will use the default ones that came with their DAW, or a handful of big names. Recognizing presets tells you what they're using, and reveals that they didn't design their own sounds. Maybe they don't know how. If I know, then I'm "obviously" better than them.

idunno, I just like sounding more like me than like Omnisphere's presets.

I don't want to come off as an ass, but it is kind of strange saying things like "I don't like other people's footprint in my art" when the discussion is taking place on a remixing site. Perhaps we can also suggest designing your own hardware and then programming it to achieve the desired sounds? Why not take it that far?

Also, presets mostly annoy only other music makers, as they are the ones who would recognize them. A casual listener would not know the difference. Hating on presets just because they are presets makes no sense, as long as the end result is a solid sounding track. I mean, after all, no one bitches that live bands use the same instruments all the time. An instrument is an instrument, and a patch is a patch, as long as you use it well and it fits.

Most of this attitude towards presets hangs on the fact that certain people in the community who are into synth design, hate on those who aren't, and consider themselves superior. It is unwarranted and often counterproductive, as it encourages messing with samples and patches for no other reason but to make them sound different to avoid ridicule and condescension. And that is not how creative process should take place. You take different sounds and you make them fit together. Do you need to program your own synth to achieve the result you are looking for? More power to you. Does a preset fit exactly as you want it to in your mix? Go for it.

I am sure that most people on the site who use presets process and tweak them at least slightly, but presets do provide a good starting point. And often a recognizable sound is exactly what people are looking to include in their mix, only to get negative remarks from synth-design purists.

Rozo, this is not an attack on you, but rather a general remark about the attitudes within the community in general.

[eilios]

I love modifying presets and playing with presets in improv. That said, though, just using presets as-is feels wrong to me. Tweaking presets is a great way to learn, though.

[Rozovian]

Most of this attitude towards presets hangs on the fact that certain people in the community who are into synth design, hate on those who aren't, and consider themselves superior. It is unwarranted and often counterproductive, as it encourages messing with samples and patches for no other reason but to make them sound different to avoid ridicule and condescension. And that is not how creative process should take place. You take different sounds and you make them fit together. Do you need to program your own synth to achieve the result you are looking for? More power to you. Does a preset fit exactly as you want it to in your mix? Go for it.

I am sure that most people on the site who use presets process and tweak them at least slightly, but presets do provide a good starting point. And often a recognizable sound is exactly what people are looking to include in their mix, only to get negative remarks from synth-design purists.

Rozo, this is not an attack on you, but rather a general remark about the attitudes within the community in general.

Haha, I get that it's not an attack on me. I mean, I did suggest making my own electricity in my first post in this thread. I just want my remixes to be just me and the source, and not be dependent on the sound design of others.

I wanna argue against your point of it being counterproductive, since knowing how to tweak patches or make your own helps you tweak or design more fitting sounds. As useful as presets are when they fit, they're easily used when they don't fit, leading to problems mixing/getting a cohesive sound. Even when just a little editing would be enough.

Consider what often happens with newbs (myself included, back in the day) when they try to be "interpretive" and alter the melodies of the source just to avoid being "too conservative". You end up with a track that's structurally the same but with arbitrarily altered melodies. That's not the creative arrangement ocr is looking for. Writing your own arrangement is the big idea with this site, and it's helped ppl learn and grow as artists.

[Dafydd]

Still, sometimes you may want to make a big deal out of using certain presets BECAUSE they are familiar. I don't know if that was the idea here, but http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01416/ took a lot of flak for using a certain sample.

[Mustin]

I don't want to come off as an ass, but it is kind of strange saying things like "I don't like other people's footprint in my art" when the discussion is taking place on a remixing site. Perhaps we can also suggest designing your own hardware and then programming it to achieve the desired sounds? Why not take it that far?

Also, presets mostly annoy only other music makers, as they are the ones who would recognize them. A casual listener would not know the difference. Hating on presets just because they are presets makes no sense, as long as the end result is a solid sounding track. I mean, after all, no one bitches that live bands use the same instruments all the time. An instrument is an instrument, and a patch is a patch, as long as you use it well and it fits.

Most of this attitude towards presets hangs on the fact that certain people in the community who are into synth design, hate on those who aren't, and consider themselves superior. It is unwarranted and often counterproductive, as it encourages messing with samples and patches for no other reason but to make them sound different to avoid ridicule and condescension. And that is not how creative process should take place. You take different sounds and you make them fit together. Do you need to program your own synth to achieve the result you are looking for? More power to you. Does a preset fit exactly as you want it to in your mix? Go for it.

I am sure that most people on the site who use presets process and tweak them at least slightly, but presets do provide a good starting point. And often a recognizable sound is exactly what people are looking to include in their mix, only to get negative remarks from synth-design purists.

Rozo, this is not an attack on you, but rather a general remark about the attitudes within the community in general.

Post of the year. Thank you.

Now cue Joshua Morse to chew my ass for using presets in 10... 9...