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Cecilff2
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Heavy Rain, the game thats very light on gameplay, but is mostly about story telling and multiple paths?

Graphics overall don't matter for its story telling either if you boil it down. It just helps the fact theres not a lot of gameplay that you have something pretty to look at. But it could be low poly PS1 models if the story is good enough, you dont need "good graphics" to enjoy it. For example: lots of Japanese visual novels tell excellent stories with static 2d imagery.

If you have to have pretty graphics to enjoy the story, then the story wasn't written well to begin with.

Same goes for games: If you have to have pretty graphics to enjoy it, it probably isn't a fun game. A fun game can have good graphics, but it has to be fun gameplay wise first.

Also the comment about Nintendo copying Sony because Sony made Wiimotes in HD makes zero sense. You can't copy an idea thats already yours and despite what Sony will have you believe, they didn't create HD

Edited by Crowbar Man
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It's a good point that you can tell a story with simple graphics... we're actually working on a playthrough of ff7 right now and it's mostly reading. But you can't deny that expertly crafted graphics have the ability to immerse you so much deeper into a story. That's probably why so many people are clamoring for a FF7 REMAKE and stuff. I dunno, I think Heavy Rain has about as much gameplay as a game like ff7, except replace the "press X during battles" with "do any number of things to work stuff in heavy rain"

Imagine the Aeris death scene if it had the detail of the Heavy Rain finger-chopping-off scene

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Ironically, example given FF7 had the most ground breaking graphics of its time. Now why would you play it? Story, Gameplay, Music, etc. Thats why people clammer for a remake, the only thing that doesn't stand the test of time IS graphics. So in the end they don't really matter.

And honestly at this point, they probably aren't going to improve that dramatically simply because the cost of doing so keeps rising. If WiiHD can do 360/PS3 level graphics in 1080p that would be enough IMO. PS3/360 can't do (natively) 720p half the time. If it can do better, well great too, but its not going to make any major impact.

And if PS4/XboxWhatever can do better than that, it wont matter to Nintendo, they have this tablet idea they've focused on anyway, they will continue making Nintendo games and let PS4/XboxWhatever continue the endless "graphic arms" race that just costs more than its worth to Nintendo

As long as they dont scare off 3rd party support like they usually do they will be more than fine. I just hope, unlike Wii, they will focus more on making their games top notch and less throwing gimicks at everything, but this Tablet kinda screams gimmicks so i guess we'll see. At least it has a normal control scheme again (dual analogs, buttons, etc)

Edited by Crowbar Man
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Ironically, example given FF7 had the most ground breaking graphics of its time. Now why would you play it? Story, Gameplay, Music, etc. Thats why people clammer for a remake, the only thing that doesn't stand the test of time IS graphics. So in the end they don't really matter.

And honestly at this point, they probably aren't going to improve that dramatically simply because the cost of doing so keeps rising. If WiiHD can do 360/PS3 level graphics in 1080p that would be enough IMO. PS3/360 can't do (natively) 720p half the time. If it can do better, well great too, but its not going to make any major impact.

And if PS4/XboxWhatever can do better than that, it wont matter to Nintendo, they have this tablet idea they've focused on anyway, they will continue making Nintendo games and let PS4/XboxWhatever continue the endless "graphic arms" race that just costs more than its worth to Nintendo

As long as they dont scare off 3rd party support like they usually do they will be more than fine. I just hope, unlike Wii, they will focus more on making their games top notch and less throwing gimicks at everything, but this Tablet kinda screams gimmicks so i guess we'll see. At least it has a normal control scheme again (dual analogs, buttons, etc)

60648-this-guy-are-sick.gif

Truly there was not a flaw in this game to be found but in the graphics.

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60648-this-guy-are-sick.gif

Truly there was not a flaw in this game to be found but in the graphics.

mistranslations added to FFVII if anything!

'ey oinkness

sony_take.jpg

this image predates the PSMove by 3-4 years too -_-

...

on the actual subject of the U, it's good to see nintendo using something kind of close to an actual controller again but I'll have to play it to really know, it looks potentially pretty uncomfortable. I'd like them to make something that fits the hands perfectly like the gamecube controller again :/

Edited by liquid wind
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I think graphics actually do play a significant role in the enjoyment of a game. The Witcher 2 is a perfect example because while it's very solid gameplay and storywise, the almost next-gen graphics really help push it over the edge and immerse you in the setting.

I also don't get the complaints about the wiimote+nunchuck because waggle gimmick aside, being able to move your hands independently of each other is like the most comfortable thing ever to me.

Overall, I think Nintendo might be on to something here. As it is, the Wii U will most likely have about 2 years of free reign over the console market and lure in the 'hardcore' console crowd with better graphics and a bunch of solid third party franchises.

Once Sony and Microsoft get their successors going, the Wii U will probably fall behind in technical terms, but will have a chance to once again profile itself as the cheapest console with a lot of appeal to casual gamers.

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I think the wii remote/chuk is alright when used as a normal controller, it could use another easily accessible button or two, but it's good and I do like being able to move the hands independently. I actually played brawl competitively for a few years using it

but motion controls were nearly always implemented in a bad way, I really don't want any more of that. part of it is that nintendo has no restraint and has to force waggle into EVERYTHING(DKCR waggle roll is completely inexcusable, they could have mapped it to a button easily), but yeah, it also forces the use of waggle at times by not having enough buttons(okami is a good example requiring waggle for attack...)

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Ironically, example given FF7 had the most ground breaking graphics of its time. Now why would you play it? Story, Gameplay, Music, etc. Thats why people clammer for a remake, the only thing that doesn't stand the test of time IS graphics. So in the end they don't really matter.

ff7 hasn't aged well, at all. it's got a lot more issues than just graphics that don't look good on a big screen :<

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ff7 hasn't aged well, at all. it's got a lot more issues than just graphics that don't look good on a big screen :<

The graphics looked like crap even back then, or at least the character models did. Let us not forget that it released in 1997. Compare that to Super Mario 64's models. Backgrounds and cutscenes go to FFVII, but their quality is drastically adversely affected by the character models.

As far as how the game has aged, I don't know that I agree it hasn't aged very well. It's still infinitely better than many RPGs I've played since it came out, and the materia system is my personal favorite system in any FF game. Though I suppose the translation could have been a bit better.

All the same, I may just be unable to take off my nostalgia goggles. You'd have to get the opinion of an RPG fan who's playing it for the first time in 2011. I like FFVII and will always enjoy it for some reason.

But back on the topic of the Wii U, I agree with liquid wind that motion controls, while okay in some situations, are almost always implemented poorly. I thought Twilight Princess handled it well enough (though it was a better game on the GCN) and Mario Galaxy did a nice job of integrating them without making them obtrusive. Yet so many other games had them without needing them. Donkey Kong Country Returns was one of my favorite games last year, but it would have been ever so slightly better if the classic controller was an option rather than having to move the Wii-mote to roll.

I'm really hoping Nintendo's focus on core gamers and games means the classic controller is a standard option in almost all non-motion-specific games.

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Well heres a shot at staying on topic:

http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2011-wii-u/716071

Another video of the Zelda Wii U Graphical Tech Demo (this one up close) for those who haven't seen it. Again, just a tech demo, may not even be on real / final hardware

1st Party games so far:

Some of these tablet demos im sure will be featured in some sort of Wii U Play

Super Smash Bros installment

Pikmin 3

I think this is about all the info we'll get until TGS

Edit: some more "Tech Specs" so far, since Nintendo doesn't like to talk about that:

CPU: IBM Power Architecture multicore (some rumors floating around based on Watson tech)

GPU: ATI, Custom based on Radeon HD series (which one who knows)

So, at least they've moved off single core and into modern 3D tech.

Edited by Crowbar Man
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Some people (well, all "core" audiences) want twin analog classic design that is used on every modern console today except missing from the Wii (sans the Classic controller which no game supports practically). Some seem to perfer the wiimote+nunchuck for comfort, but not particularly for actual gameplay (lack of buttons, forced waggle, etc) ... at least the Wii U seems to be offering multiple configuations. Hopefully most games will support: Wiimote*, Wiimote*+Nunchuck, Wii U Tablet, and/or Classic Controller. So theres a controller for everybody. That would be optimum, but Nintendo hasn't done well requiring devs to support multiple controllers with the Wii so I guess we'll see

*as i mentioned earlier, for motion based games, hopefully Motion Plus supported/required

Edited by Crowbar Man
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FF7 had bad graphics even when it was released. It only had CG movies that impressed people visually

also shariq, stop being such a nazi. this place used to be great before people had to walk on eggshells. you're the only one who cares, none of the other mods do. let people post. if things get a little OT it's fine, as long as it isn't completely derailed.

learn to step back and take stock before trying to insert your imaginary authority

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idc if they update the graphics but I might actually consider getting it(if I get a Wii-U) if they fix it so you can use the analog stick instead of the dpad

I really don't like the playstation dpad

speaking of which, this seems to have the same sticks that the 3DS uses, which seems very different from their past designs. not having a 3DS, what could I expect from this? better, worse, no difference?

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