Nintendo Wii U

[Brandon Strader]

I think the thing that makes Nintendo "unique" or "great" is also the thing that is their downfall. By all means they should keep making these cutesy games, but they also need to evolve as a company and as a developer. Evolving doesn't mean to jump straight to brown first-person-shooter Mario, but there has to be a happy medium. They could make a Mario that has high-def graphics and doesn't look cartoony. I'm not saying they should make Mario have a plumber's buttcrack sticking out and be hairy and ugly, like he would be in real life. I'm thinking more like this:

http://wallppaer.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/mario-wallpaper-hd.jpg

Imagine that in a game like this:

So generally it would still have everything great about Mario, but it would be taking it into a more detailed and interesting world. For comparison this is what current Mario looks like:

http://sickr.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/super_mario_3d_world_run.jpg

Quite frankly, the design is shit.

I'm not saying I don't LIKE the game or the design, it's good "for what it is", and for being Nintendo, but that's exactly the point I am trying to make.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Brandon Strader

[DarkeSword]

That design isn't "shit." I don't think you even understand what good design is, if you think that design is bad.

[Garrett Williamson]

Do I really need to say?

If that wasn't sarcasm:

Sonic Heroes

Shadow the Hedgehog

Sonic '06 *shudder*

Sonic Unleashed

Sonic 4

Ring any bells?

Sonic Heroes sucked? And Sonic Unleashed is really hated that much?

C'mon. Give them some grace. They had some really remarkable moments in the game, especially Heroes.

http://sickr.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/super_mario_3d_world_run.jpg

Quite frankly, the design is shit.

I'm not saying I don't LIKE the game or the design, it's good "for what it is", and for being Nintendo, but that's exactly the point I am trying to make.

I don't think I could disagree with you more right now.

That is what Mario is meant to be. He was merely made for a more realistic look in Brawl because that's what the style of the whole game was. And for him to look all cartoony just doesn't work in that regard. In his own game, by all means, that design is gorgeous. Ranting about that is like trying to find a reason to complain about a perfect chocolate peanut butter brownie by claiming the peanut butter is 0.5 cm off of where it should be. That's just ridiculous.

It's freaking Mario. Graphics aren't the thing. Why do we care so much about graphics? The game itself matters double more than the graphics ever will.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Garrett Williamson

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

That design isn't "shit." I don't think you even understand what good design is, if you think that design is bad.

I think he just doesn't understand how to reconcile the difference between what he wants to see versus everyone else.

Seriously Brandon, you had me until "cutesy games". What the fuck, dude?

[Modus]

Brandon I'll back you up. I'm sure everyone's surprised.

I don't think the design is shit but I think it's boring and I've seen it in Nintendo Land, which has already burned out my retinas with color saturation so I don't have retinas to play this new game.

[Bleck]

yeah man colors are terrible everyone hates those let's have some more brownshoots

[Modus]

[Brandon Strader]

Brandon I'll back you up. I'm sure everyone's surprised.

I don't think the design is shit but I think it's boring and I've seen it in Nintendo Land, which has already burned out my retinas with color saturation so I don't have retinas to play this new game.

I meant it was shit in the Kitchen Nightmares way, I'm sure it's still edible but it's not fresh or as enjoyable as it should be. It really does not look like a game that they put much effort into.

Hah, the brown version of this actually looks pretty cool. Almost like autumn.

[Mirby]

I've seen just everything Nintendo has released on it on their You Tube channel and website. It looks great, amazing actually. But I don't see anything here that shows a more open level design ala Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy. The level paths are wider than 3D Land sure (to accommodate 4 players), but still follow a particular path, still has the flagpole and ? retro style of 3D Land.

Do you have a link to a video that shows something I haven't seen? I could of missed it. I'll go look again

you obviously weren't listening then

cause what i said was basically repeating what they said

you say you don't "see" anything, but honestly we haven't seen much from it at all. just bits and pieces.

and what i was saying was what they said, nothing that was shown in the video.

here's an article which states that they're taking all they've learned from the past 3D mario games and incorporating those things into this game

Edited June 14, 2013 by Mirby

[Crowbar Man]

How does a guy saying they are incorporating elements from past 3D games mean its going to play like / be designed like them? Kinda stretching that a bit far

Go watch any trailer for the game. It clearly looks and plays like 3D Land. 3D Land does not look/play like Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy.

There is a path like level design, with a goal post ending, and ? blocks that give permanent power ups, and no life bar (you have no power up, you die). All elements the main Mario series dropped as of Mario 64. (Free roaming level designs, No goals, instead you collect stars, power ups are temporary (or in Sunshine, don't exist), and you have a life bar that refills with coins)

Again I'm not saying this is a bad thing per se, but it just isn't a free roaming 3D platformer styled like 64/Sunshine/Galaxy. If anything, these games are more true to the older games THAN Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy, kinda like "what if we did 3D but didn't radically alter the way the game was designed previously?"

I like it. I can't wait to play 3D World. But it just is not a 3D free roaming platformer styled like Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy. Doesn't mean it is a bad thing!

Edited June 14, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[Raziellink]

BAM. Instant realism.

[dfcentre]

The big turn off for me is the multiplayer focus. On NSMBWii the multiplayer was TERRIBLE and laggy. For the game to focus so heavily on this multiplayer aspect concerns me. I play these games myself or with a friend watching or playing.

I don't really care for a multiplayer Mario.

Also the visual style of Mario is less the problem. I think Brandon is talking more about not having the world be SO modular so repetitious. He just wants to see a world that looks more alive. Also the character needs to be animated better and show greater personality. I was very impressed with the small animation touches in Kirby's Adventure Wii. The character Kirby exuded personalty during gameplay without saying anything. In just a 2D plain with a D-pad and 2 buttons the surprising number of cool things Kirby could do was something to behold. The cartooney style also had a lot of soul.

What Nintendo have shown this E3 is not real Mario. Real Mario is what Shigeru Miyamoto envisioned for him back in the 80s and 90s. It is a cartoon that you bring to life with a controller. The 1-dimensional gameplay with 1-dimensional enemies with template based worlds is not part of that original vision. This E3 is, as has been widely documented, comfort food for fans who have been neglected for five or so years.

Smash Bros looks crap, its the pre-rendered cut-scenes that you guys are oogling over. The gameplay looks as choppy and jagged as it was on the gamecube. The director of the game even said hes not changing much due to the popularity of past iterations. Big mistake. You have a new console with great new powers! Itilise them! I'm sorry but when Nintendo and its second-tier dev teams are ready to really pull your there finger out on more than just one game then I will buy a Wii-U.

I was also annoyed at Ubisobt for not showing any in-game footage of AC Black Flag. Metal Gear looks like it plays great! As well as Watch Dogs.

I have already played Wind Waker twice so there's no incentives for me this E3. Wonderful 101 looked good last year but their focus seems to be shifting to those big sweeping moves and I find them a bit... cheesy. The world looks like it could be very fun to explore though.

Edited June 15, 2013 by dfcentre

[Ptazza]

Er...I found NSMBWii an utter blast multiplayer. First couple of times me and my friends found it awkward but hilarious with many trolling opportunities due to the way it worked. However when we put aside our spite and vengeance it really allowed for some great teamwork opportunities to achieve our goals and we went and got every star coin in the game.

As for your complaints about Smash bro's graphics...I haven't really paid much attention but so what? Melee on gamecube looked fine for what it needed to be. Snake and maybe Zero Suit Samus were the only realistic characters on the roster in Brawl but with a roster of mostly cartoony characters ultra fine-graphics aren't really needed so long as they are damn fun and Smash bros most certainly is.

[dfcentre]

Yes its funny, but only because everyone kept dying because the lag was so bad. You can learn to compensate for the lag as I did but still. Bloody annoying. I don't care if multiplayer is a feature but to make such a big deal out of it makes me question the game as a serious addition to the library. Of course, it remains to be seen the degree of lag in this game in multiplayer but I would be very cautious about it.

"So what?!" You say about oogling at pre-rendered cut-scenes. So your plan is going to be 'put down $80-100 on a game with just a few new characters and very little enhancements'? It always amazes me how excited people get about a new character. The new characters altogether make up 5% of the game! The environments, the animation, the effects the framerate, the other characters are almost still as choppy and rough as they were over ten years ago. Sorry but why do so many fans not respect themselves enough to demand better from a company that wants them to pay $700 to buy the console and play the game?

Edited June 15, 2013 by dfcentre

[liquid wind]

This E3 is, as has been widely documented, comfort food for fans who have been neglected for five or so years.

Really closer to a full decade at this point, and even then I wouldn't say so.

Still no Star Fox

Still no F-Zero

Nothing on the next Zelda

Mario's had very mixed reception

Retro is still doing Donkey Kong, and while DKCR was a great game, it still feels like a misuse of their talents

Metroid is probably dead after the train wreck known as Other M

Still excited for SSB4 even with some skepticism about it, it may wind up being just a slightly better Brawl but I think it will fix enough of what was broken to be pretty good. No tripping, a legit fighting game dev collaborating on it, maybe Brawl 2.0 but I do expect it to be an improvement

Edited June 15, 2013 by liquid wind

[Brandon Strader]

Hi dfcentre Thanks for being a voice of reason in here!

About multiplayer... If Super Mario 3D World doesn't have ONLINE multiplayer, I'm not even going to bother checking it out. Don't get me wrong, I love single-player games as much as the next guy, but the Wii and Wii U really set themselves up as a party system, something you should play with friends. I'm a 25 year old adult, my friends are all old and I recently moved to a new neighborhood full of jerks who damage my private property and older people (like elderly) etc etc what I'm getting at is I go online to play games with either online friends on my friend list, or random people. The Wii dropped the ball hard in this regard, it had online with Smash Bros Brawl but it was incredibly laggy and not well made at all. Hopefully they bring online multiplayer to the Wii U and do it properly. They've missed a lot of opportunities already with these games, making NintendoLand practically worthless, and severely limiting the long-time appeal of NSMBU.

[dfcentre]

Yeah. I am also in my mid to late-twenties and a male. Perhaps the most interesting point to make is this. We, on these forums, are probably all mature, adult gamers but have you seen anyone get excited about the incredible, fabulous, gold-coloured, new Cat Mario? No. But Cat Mario is a big new focus of the game! Even before multiplayer. The title of the game even has a cat paw in it!

In fact I don't even remember anyone mentioning Cat Mario let alone get excited. Its as if we are too embarrassed to talk about it. Don't get me wrong, I love cats, I have a cat and he is a very important member of the household. I even watch hilarious cat memes and videos with friends. Cats are great animals. However there is just something weird about an Italian plumber dressing up in a cat costume and scratching enemies. Its not something that fits with the Mario universe its like someone at Nintendo discovered "furries" and thought, "Lets try that".

As an adult I can get very excited about cartoons. "Wreck It Ralph", "Monsters University" etc. But I can't get excited about this Mario game. I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this but I think Nintendo's main interest is 5-10 year olds because they know that a child will stay with them into adulthood just like we did. McDonalds Resturants have the same philosophy (with albeit worse side-effects of course). So while we like to think Nintendo is answering our prayers by giving us more Mario games, I think that Cat Mario is proof that Nintendo had only young children in their focus groups, because no-one on these forums has had ANY response to Cat Mario whatsoever. And that silence speaks volumes about Nintendo's current position more than anything.

To reiterate I love 3D/2D cartoons and movies still. I am excited to see Monsters Uni soon.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

I'm sure a lot of people though Frog Mario looked redunk, but that didn't stop Super Mario Bros. 3 from becoming one of if not the fan favorite Mario game.

[Brandon Strader]

Yeah. I am also in my mid to late-twenties and a male. Perhaps the most interesting point to make is this. We, on these forums, are probably all mature, adult gamers but have you seen anyone get excited about the incredible, fabulous, gold-coloured, new Cat Mario? No. But Cat Mario is a big new focus of the game! Even before multiplayer. The title of the game even has a cat paw in it!

In fact I don't even remember anyone mentioning Cat Mario let alone get excited. Its as if we are too embarrassed to talk about it. Don't get me wrong, I love cats, I have a cat and he is a very important member of the household. I even watch hilarious cat memes and videos with friends. Cats are great animals. However there is just something weird about an Italian plumber dressing up in a cat costume and scratching enemies. Its not something that fits with the Mario universe its like someone at Nintendo discovered "furries" and thought, "Lets try that".

As an adult I can get very excited about cartoons. "Wreck It Ralph", "Monsters University" etc. But I can't get excited about this Mario game. I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this but I think Nintendo's main interest is 5-10 year olds because they know that a child will stay with them into adulthood just like we did. McDonalds Resturants have the same philosophy (with albeit worse side-effects of course). So while we like to think Nintendo is answering our prayers by giving us more Mario games, I think that Cat Mario is proof that Nintendo had only young children in their focus groups, because no-one on these forums has had ANY response to Cat Mario whatsoever. And that silence speaks volumes about Nintendo's current position more than anything.

To reiterate I love 3D/2D cartoons and movies still. I am excited to see Monsters Uni soon.

Mario in a cat suit isn't even something particularly new. There was Tanooki Suit Mario

Which worked pretty much the same as.... (Or it could also be said these are a very small variation on....)

They're basically trying to advertise the same old thing over and over, maybe that's why people aren't talking about it... it's really not a new feature at all.

If they had good online multi-player, that is something they should put on the cover.

I'm sure a lot of people though Frog Mario looked redunk, but that didn't stop Super Mario Bros. 3 from becoming one of if not the fan favorite Mario game.

I'm not concerned with it looking ridonk. Frog mario is awesome. But they aren't being interesting, unique, creative, OR putting effort into Mario games anymore... it's just a way to make bank for Nintendo now. But the fans are part of the problem, any small suggestion of change and they get outraged.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Brandon Strader

[zircon]

Well, I think that's why Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 were more captivating. If you compare the tone of those games to, say, NSMB Wii, the former is certainly still playable by a wide audience, but the gameplay and the presentation is IMO more mature and doesn't quite feel like it's only made for kids. The storybook in SMG1 could make a grown man cry, the music is absolutely stunning (Gusty Garden anyone?!), the levels are enormous and the difficulty is pretty significant. That's why I'm really looking forward to a true successor to those games.

IMO - Super Mario Bros 3 was the king and the best Mario title on the NES. Super Mario World was brilliant for the SNES. Mario64 on the N64. Sunshine on the GC, and SMG1/2 for Wii. I don't put this new Mario 3D Land game on the same level as those games.

[Mirby]

You can see from the trailer that the Cat Suit isn't taking the place of those suits, since the Tanooki Suit also returns. As seen in the trailer.

[Crowbar Man]

I've played all of NSMBWii with Gman co-op, I don't recall any input lag. The game was extremely responsive as you'd expect from a Mario / Nintendo game. It wasnt online so there couldn't of been any online lag. You guys sure it wasn't your TV creating some display lag? If your TVs settings aren't correct, ALL games have display lag, and its more noticeable on something that requires split second timing like a 2D platformer.

There isn't a single review that ever mentions input lag being an issue, quite the oppposite. I'd expect there is something wrong with the way your guys' Wii/TV is set up

Edited June 15, 2013 by Crowbar Man

[DarkeSword]

Yeah I'm also bewildered at your complaint of lag.

[Garrett Williamson]

What most everyone is saying here about 3D World is what I'm feeling, though, for sure.

Although I completely disagree that the "design is crap", I must admit it looks like fun and something I may buy, but it's just nothing really new. It wasn't like Super Mario Galaxy or Super Mario Sunshine or Super Mario 64. It just doesn't introduce anything really new and amazing that really catches my eye. Which is extremely disappointing. It just seems like they are building off of 3D Land and throwing it on the Wii U and saying "here's the new 3D Mario". Thanks? I was sorta hoping for a completely brand new thing?

Which is what Sonic is actually doing right for once right now. Holy cow, I have more in agreement with Sonic Team than Nintendo right now. I actually just said that. My mind is blown.

Sonic Lost World is a complete new thing for Sonic and although it seems to be a sequel to Sonic Colors, it is very very different and very new and I don't get why people are comparing it to Super Mario Galaxy because maybe from a quick view of it it seems that way, but if you look closer into it and manipulate everything said so far, it's very different.

Unfortunately even Call of Duty sorta is doing this right. They actually are doing something new. Even if it is very similar to many other games in the series (no big surprise there) and although I've actually heard from a few friends that it seems like a rip-off of Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon (I don't know; I don't know much about these things), the game seriously seems to be doing something different than the past 20,567 games they've done that are all the same thing just with a different number on the box.

So why on earth is the one series (Mario) that ever introduces anything really new every time suddenly just decide they're just gonna do what they did last time because it worked so well? Galaxy was a big change for Mario. And that was a *completely* different monster than 64 or Sunshine. And it sold well and was really successful and well-received. Sunshine was a completely different thing than 64, and although it got less positive reviews compared to 64 and sold less, it was still pretty successful and did pretty well. And obviously 64 was a new thing. I mean, it was the first Mario 3D title, and it was a huge risk taken and they pulled it off perfectly and ended up with a ridiculously successful title that got a giant amount of positive reviews.

What are we doing making a game that is just Super Mario 3D Land for the Wii U with HD graphics and a suit that does nothing but climb on walls and makes Mario act like a freaking cat?

What happened.

[Brandon Strader]

Well, I think that's why Super Mario Galaxy 1 & 2 were more captivating. If you compare the tone of those games to, say, NSMB Wii, the former is certainly still playable by a wide audience, but the gameplay and the presentation is IMO more mature and doesn't quite feel like it's only made for kids. The storybook in SMG1 could make a grown man cry, the music is absolutely stunning (Gusty Garden anyone?!), the levels are enormous and the difficulty is pretty significant. That's why I'm really looking forward to a true successor to those games.

IMO - Super Mario Bros 3 was the king and the best Mario title on the NES. Super Mario World was brilliant for the SNES. Mario64 on the N64. Sunshine on the GC, and SMG1/2 for Wii. I don't put this new Mario 3D Land game on the same level as those games.

I can agree with you here. I had Super Mario Galaxy, it was pretty mind-blowing. I'd like to see something innovative like that, yeah maybe a SMG3, and bringing new GamePad innovations to it... keep it beautiful and fresh and bring it to the HD world!

Also bring back Super Mario RPG.

I do still think the design of Super Mario 3D World is crap. It looked like just a bunch of copy paste, from the flat platforms, to the circular platform, to the 3 rat enemies that were identical... It looked like something they probably could have made in a couple days.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Brandon Strader