timaeus222 Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Source: Remix: The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) Just wanted to show this to you guys! Shreddage rules! Currently, this seems passable. Is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Production-wise, it's a little on the muddy side - I would try to bump some of those low-mids and mids down, while brightening up stuff like the snare and bringing the lead guitar out more. The rhythm guitars are of course awesome You might try a different tone on the lead guitar as well to make it even more distinct (and/or different EQ). Also, any reason why the drums are panned so much? I would put them dead center but then the overhead/room mics should provide some stereo space. Does that make sense? Arrangement-wise, main thing I would suggest is making room for some kinda breakdown so it's not that huge wall of sound the entire time. When you give a mix like this a breather, it makes coming back INTO the wall of sound more powerful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Share Posted June 4, 2012 At first, I thought the drums should have an increased stereo width (with Stereo Shaper) in order to make them fit more easily, but I definitely see where you're coming from; I had them at the center earlier. Since there was mid to low-mid compression that I didn't hear, I'll fix that instead and return the drums to center! It might also prove useful to you that I was using EWQL Stormdrums for the drums, so the snare, kick, toms, etc. are automatically panned in Kontakt, and are in the same channel, but I'll see what I can do. 1:34 - 2:00 should have been the breakdown I intended to put, but I'll work on that more and make it more evident! Thank you for the awesome feedback! It completely makes sense, no lie! Personally, it's quite an honor to receive feedback from you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted June 12, 2012 Author Share Posted June 12, 2012 This would be the V2, with my fixes to the muddiness, stereo panning on the drums (mostly kick and snare were affected at first), and (hopefully more than slightly) more evident breakdown: The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V2 Source: Remix: The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) (Bumped three times) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnWake Posted June 12, 2012 Share Posted June 12, 2012 I like the arrangement, and the second version has much better sounding rhytm guitars. Some comments/suggestions: - Is there a bass on this? It is either too low or non-existant which is bad because a solid bassline really helps a rock/metal song. - The hi-hat sound is a bit too messy IMO. I find it quite distracting, try to make it a bit shorter. Bass drum sound is a bit too quiet and short too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 There wasn't a bass. I was actually hoping the lower rhythm guitar chords would create sufficient low bass frequencies. I can try to squeeze in a bass at 20-70 Hz. For some reason I seem to get compression at higher frequencies. Well, at least I'm hearing it. There isn't much I can do about the hi-hat; it's a WAV implemented into EWQL Stormdrums's .nki, not an actual separate WAV. (Well, it is an actual separate WAV, but it wouldn't make sense to use that on its own when I could use it in the .nki and get the round robin effect) Same with the bass drum (although I think you're mixing it up with the toms). I suppose I could try changing the EQ and reverb. Remix: >>The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V3<< The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V2 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V1 Source: I don't think it sounds as good as the V2, though I shouldn't really be comparing them. The drums do sound less subdued though. Right now it just sounds like there's too much bass, but I'm not sure. (Bumped once) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 MOD REVIEW: Eh, the hats didn't bother me nearly as much - I think you could get away with them in this track. I actually thought the wet sound gave the track some more color, which is always (well, almost always) nice. I'm going to have to echo Zircon's comment on the muddy nature of this track. There's just too much going on in the mid section of the EQ, so everything blends together in a guitar soup. It feels like you're playing the rhythm on the same strings as the lead, as they share the same sonic space. That rhythm really needs to be taken much lower while the lead stays roughly an octave above it. I know it sucks to re-record anything in a track, but in this case I think it'd be worth it, fixing both the muddiness issue AND the bass issue at the same time. Speaking of which, yeah, the bass is non-existent. The rhythm idea could work if it were playing in the lowest strings of the guitar, but it doesn't really sound like it. If it is then you really need to mess with the EQ on your rhythm guitar and bring those lows out significantly. Arrangement sounds good in my book - no comments there. I think I would enjoy this one if the sound was clear and there was enough bass in it, and so would OCR. Fix these things and come back around - likely you'll have something that's passable with those fixes, there. Good luck... and sorry if my suggestions mean a re-record. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 It's quite ironic, actually, because this is actually Shreddage, not real guitar. So I wouldn't have minded fixing octaves if I had to. xD However, even if I wanted to, I couldn't. The mapping on regular Shreddage actually limits me to almost those exact octaves. I can't bump the lead up an octave, and I already have a layer of low riffs for the metal feel. I'll just have to mess with the EQ some more. If it helps, I have one layer of low riffs, one layer of full chokes, one layer of regular riffs, and one layer of the lead, if you look at only the guitar. In V3, the bass is actually there, but it apparently isn't as loud as you anticipated. EDIT: AHA! I figured out the main reasons why it's muddy! I usually forget the fact that the mixer effect tracks work in order from top to bottom, not at the same time. My lead and low riffs were feeding through the EQ before they were amped, so they were quieter or sounded differently than they should have. Therefore, the EQ I had was overboosting the mids. Now the drums are less subdued and there should be much less muddiness and low-pass-ish sound. Remix: >>The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4<< The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V3 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V2 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V1 Source: Hm, it might actually be sounding pretty good! (Bumped twice) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magellanic Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Its sounding much better than the previous versions. Bein a guitarist ,its probably just me being picky, but I think you need to perhaps be a bit more sparing with the squeals on the lead. If you like em' then leave 'em but if you're wanting to keep the listener believing that the guitars are real, ease off of them a tad. The drums do sound weak to me. For the style of the guitars, I feel like there should be more of the click on the bass drum hits. The snare is barely comin' through. The cymbals sound very distant from the mix. You said you have no bass, but the thing with guitars is that in the lower range - mud is a very real problem. By cutting the low-mid and putting a beefy bass in, you will get a lot more power from your guitars. Part of the secret to a great rhythm tone is the bass tone. Your mix will also sound much clearer. I think the guitars could do with a lil information around the +600hz/mid range. They sound a little too scooped to me, but that's just personal preference. Seriously, the arrangement is great. The style is great too. I just think there needs to be a little bit more tweaking to your eq and balance. Once you got that nailed, this will really be the best it can be. There's more potential in this mix to be realised Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Thanks for the feedback! Right now I believe I've fixed the bass drum and snare instances. It turns out the problem was in the sequencing itself, and their sequencing was on an ineffective velocity layer, so the right frequencies weren't coming out. I still don't believe the snare is quite good enough in the high end though. I'll keep working on that. I think it's just the sample itself. EWQL's mapping is convenient though. I can add custom snares that actually don't overlap with other crucial parts of any drum kit (;D). I cut the low-mids some on the regular riffs and cut the low-mids on the low riffs a bit less than the regular riffs, and I believe it sounds better than before. I thought about reducing the squeals, but it seems that most of them fit where they are. Personally, it just doesn't sound as good without certain instances. I did add a bass in the V4, but it should be more evident in the next update. EDIT: Hm... the new snare doesn't sound like it fits. Maybe it's just because I don't actually play drums. Right now it seems like it doesn't match a metal kit. Does it work? Remix: >>The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.2<< The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V3 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V2 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V1 Source: (Bumped twice) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magellanic Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I think the problem with the snare is partly to do with the sample but also how its sequenced. It sounds very robotic. The drums in general are lacking cohesion. To me, it doesn't really sound like a drummer drumming which is what you should really be going for in this style. The mix is sounding much better and the bass is certainly adding a lot. I think balance could still be better though between the bass and guitars. In general, I think the bass is just too loud. Bring it down and bring the rhythm guitars up some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 I actually think the drums sound fine. If there were any robotic problems with the drums other than the snare, I think Zircon might have pointed it out by now. Besides, it's EWQL, so it's on a round robin effect and its sequencing actually has very good intonation. "Robotic" implies constant velocities everywhere, which definitely isn't true. There are very small and unnoticeable spots of constant velocity, and that was completely negligible. However, I'll fix those spots anyway. I'll try to fix the snare internally in Kontakt and change the bass and guitar balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted June 18, 2012 Author Share Posted June 18, 2012 Okay, I've definitely improved the snare, and I've rebalanced the guitar and bass. Remix: >>The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.3<< The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.2 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V3 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V2 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V1 Source: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rozovian Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Dude, take your thread off mod review when you go back to work on it, you don't get to hog the mods for weekly updates. non-mod comments: Drums need work, those samples don't fit metal at all. Guitars might be a bit too loud. Rhythm guitar sounds like it's playing on an old radio. Cool source, seems to work well with metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillRock Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Dude, take your thread off mod review when you go back to work on it, you don't get to hog the mods for weekly updates. Bleh, its not like he's killing us with overload right This needs some mix work. Very loud guitars, I can hardly hear anything drums wise cept for crashes and that snare. This needs much more bass atm, this sounds tinny as a result of lack of bass, and I have bass heavy headphones. Guitars seem fake, but they seem to be seqeuenced well from what I can tell. Needs a production overhaul to make this pass the bar tho before you tackle any potential arrangement concerns - boost the bass, re-level stuff so you can hear the kick, hihats and the bass (altho be careful not to overdo the bass overall, since I know i'm saying it alot) Keep working at it bro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Dude, take your thread off mod review when you go back to work on it, you don't get to hog the mods for weekly updates. non-mod comments: Drums need work, those samples don't fit metal at all. Guitars might be a bit too loud. Rhythm guitar sounds like it's playing on an old radio. Cool source, seems to work well with metal. I've actually heard ocremixes in the past before that had questionable rhythm guitar. i.e. "Craving for Burning Blood" by Luhny, "Bloody Hell" by Ailsean and Kaijin, or others, but it's not as if I didn't like those remixes a lot. Yeah, I figured the drums might not be fitting. I'm not quite sure where I can get sufficient drum samples. I had tried EWQL for this mix, but apparently that didn't work out. Personally, I think the rhythm guitar itself is actually the sound I want. I'm going to see if I can fix up the drums and instrument balance some more then. This needs some mix work. Very loud guitars, I can hardly hear anything drums wise cept for crashes and that snare. This needs much more bass atm, this sounds tinny as a result of lack of bass, and I have bass heavy headphones. Guitars seem fake, but they seem to be sequenced well from what I can tell. Needs a production overhaul to make this pass the bar tho before you tackle any potential arrangement concerns - boost the bass, re-level stuff so you can hear the kick, hihats and the bass (altho be careful not to overdo the bass overall, since I know i'm saying it alot) Keep working at it bro! I thought the guitar was loud, and I was hoping that it was too loud because if it wasn't, LIFE WOULD BE OVER. DDDDD: Just kidding. Well, good, so that means I SHOULD lower the volume, which means my drums have a chance of being heard. Yay. =D Actually, no one has said anything significant about the arrangement other than that it was solid or needed a more evident breakdown. Well, the guitar is Shreddage, so it might seem a smidge fake, but it is meant to sound as real as sampled guitar can sound. zircon, recording a fake-sounding rhythm guitar library with Sixto? Pfft. No. EDIT: YES, I made major progress Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Update! This double tracks the rhythm guitar, fixes most if not all the balance issues with the drums and guitar, ups the bass (yes, it's there; it literally creates the entire low end feel at this point), and really improves the drums. Especially the kick---I'm surprised I got the sound I wanted from it. I completely reworked the EQ on the EWQL drums. Definitely worth many listens. Necessary info: Instrument channels used are one for Strings (kinda quiet), Lead Guitar (center), one for Rhythm Guitar #1 panned 60% left, one for Rhythm Guitar #2 panned 60% right, one for Heavy Rhythm Guitar (center), one for Guitar FX (i.e. certain pinch squeals [i.e. 0:59] and certain pick scrapes [i.e. 1:19]), one for Bass (center), one for East West Quantum Leap Stormdrums (Metal Kit patch + Kicks (A0-D3) patch + Dunnet Snares patch), and volume automation for Rhythm Guitar #1 channel, Guitar FX channel, Heavy Rhythm Guitar channel, and the drums channel. All guitar is Shreddage by zircon and Sixto. Remix: >>The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.4<< The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.3 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.2 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V3 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V2 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V1 Source: (bumped once) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mak Eightman Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Nice one! I like it! despite itsa fake Drums panned left, hat panned right.. Why? Overall, too muddy. Your rhythms has to much in Highs. Cut everything after 12kHz, boost 80-250Hz, drop a bit 500Hz, then listen what to fix. Leads has the same sound scape as rhythms(sounds like same tone), this is bad. It is your main muddy source. Change tone for leads(amp, cab), well, just mess with your amp's knobs. Also i'd suggest to play with picks switcher(if passive) for lead. wait.. shreddage.. forget about everything I said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Argle Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 The rhythm guitar sounds very harsh in the midrange and is lacking some low end girth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 10, 2012 Author Share Posted August 10, 2012 @mak: The ~500Hz is my mid range. The rhythm guitars deserve some mid-range power. I'll drop it a bit but not too much. The drums are panned because... it was East West Quantum Leap producers' fault? They wanted the stereo feel of a real drum set I guess. @Argle: The low end should be from the bass, not from the guitar. You're the only person to have said "boost the lows on the rhythm guitar". ---------------------- Changes: - Changed the EQ on the low riff channel, decreased decay and release for faster mutes. - Some EQ stuff suggested by mak. - I changed the lead. Now that I got Strawberry Evolution Electric Guitar, I put in a much better lead that cuts through much more effectively. It also has the full range of an electric guitar, yay. - Breakdown section is slightly different due to the lead change. The original lead played the rhythm guitar so now I have both and the new lead plays the non-chords in that section. The dive bomb was a whammy bar effect. Both leads are still under the same amp settings so they'll sound as similar as possible. Remix: >>The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.5<< The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.4 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.3 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.2 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V3 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V2 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V1 Source: Author's Note: Please, only advise me to do something if it's going to be: - Worthwhile - Valid - Effective (Bumped once since June 27, 2012) (Bumped once since July 27, 2012) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magellanic Posted August 11, 2012 Share Posted August 11, 2012 You definitely don't want to be boosting the lows of the guitars BUT the guitars are EQ'd too harshly. They've lost their body somewhat. If you got the Rhythms high-passed then just bring it back some. Guitars can be such a bitch to mix as just a couple of DB or 100hz can be make or break with the tone and sound. This is personal preference and will change from setup to setup, but try and High-pass up to 115hz-ish, a scoop (perhaps) -6 to -8db at around 6-700hz with a fairly wide Q and another scoop at about 400hz of roughly -2/3db. Obviously this is just a suggestion and may not work at all for you. Guitar tone can very much be an individual thing, but experiementing with that kinda thing you may be able to get power and clarity with little sacrifice of fidelity. The top end seems fine, but its difficult to tell. I dunno whether you do this, but I'm always referencing other bands/artist with the kind of tone I want and using it as a guide by listening to my track then theirs. The lead sounds much much better btw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 13, 2012 Author Share Posted August 13, 2012 Thanks for the tips. Here are the new changes I made: -Mixing- Lead: Refined the realism (tapping when necessary, etc.), the EQ, and the reverb. Low Rhythm: Refined the reverb, increased the stereo width, and lowered the lows a bit. Regular Rhythm: Refined the reverb, did some proper double tracking (I knew how to do it in Kontakt for a while now, but I didn't do that yet on this track), and edited the EQ to compensate (lows on the left, highs on the right, etc.). Bass: Added a compressor to make the levels less erratic, bumped up the lows, and removed the stereo width (I don't know why I had that). Drums: Refined the reverb. Strings: Fixed the balance, so now you can hear them. Pick Scrapes/Pinch Squeals: Fixed the EQ to fit better with the lead when both are playing at the same time. -Arrangement- - Replaced the arpeggio lead in the intro and similar repeats with the "Lead" rather than the "Regular Rhythm". - Lowered the levels of the pinch squeals and pick scrapes. - Refined the lead's melody and part of its notes in the solo. - Polished the breakdown section. Remix: >>The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.6<< The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.5 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.4 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.3 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4.2 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V4 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V3 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V2 The Death of King Desmond (Metal Mix) V1 Source: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Dan Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I am feeling strange with the hat. Is it hard panned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 14, 2012 Author Share Posted August 14, 2012 It wasn't my intention to hard-pan it; East West Quantum Leap Stormdrums's Metal Kit just happened to give the hats a hard-pan right in the .nki, so unfortunately I couldn't do much to fix it. I tried. I supposed I could find separate hat patches and use those instead, but I don't really feel like doing that right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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