Where do you stand on game remixes that are sold for money?

[The Legendary Zoltan]

Do you think it's a good thing for either established artists or new artists? Do you think it's immoral plagiarism? I just want to hear your opinion on the matter.

My opinion:

I always imagine that if I were Nobuo Uematsu and tons of people were making FF remix albums and making tons of money off of them, I wouldn't feel like less people are buying FF Soundtracks. Of course, they'd have to credit me. So, currently I'm leaning on "It's OK." But I want to hear more opinions and reasons.

[WillRock]

As a composer, i'd be very much against if it people started making money off my music. If they released it for free and credited me (like OCR) no problem with it and more power to them. If they start selling however... I'd be pissed basically

[Benjamin Briggs]

I feel like this topic has been brought up 3 or 4 times in the last couple of weeks

I know there was just recently a thread that ended up turning to this sort of discussion...

http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19331

I had plenty to say there, and it's still "where I stand"

sampling, remixing, arranging, midi-ripping, mash-upping... all of it in my opinion is fair game. if someone puts effort into something and someone else wants to buy it, I don't see any moral issue there at all. like I said, developers and composers set the climate for music piracy, and it really doesn't seem like they see remixing for profit as a form of piracy. I don't see it that way either; there are only 12 notes to choose from in music after all ;D

now if someone is literally selling/re-selling the exact same songs with no alterations whatsoever, I can agree that it's morally, uh, bad.

edit: by the way, I bought Zelda Step

[Brandon Strader]

I feel like this topic has been brought up 3 or 4 times in the last couple of weeks

I know there was just recently a thread that ended up turning to this sort of discussion...

http://ocremix.org/forums/showthread.php?t=19331

I had plenty to say there, and it's still "where I stand"

sampling, remixing, arranging, midi-ripping, mash-upping... all of it in my opinion is fair game. if someone puts effort into something and someone else wants to buy it, I don't see any moral issue there at all. like I said, developers and composers set the climate for music piracy, and it really doesn't seem like they see remixing for profit as a form of piracy. I don't see it that way either; there are only 12 notes to choose from in music after all ;D

now if someone is literally selling/re-selling the exact same songs with no alterations whatsoever, I can agree that it's morally, uh, bad.

edit: by the way, I bought Zelda Step

I agree with chthonic 100%

Besides I'd be a hypocrite if I denied buying them OneUps albums

edit: i disagree about straight midi-ripping, that's someone else's work straight up

[Benjamin Briggs]

I agree with chthonic 100%

Besides I'd be a hypocrite if I denied buying them OneUps albums

edit: i disagree about straight midi-ripping, that's someone else's work straight up

I use the term "midi-rip" loosely to mean "very conservative arrangement"

an actual midi rip with replaced instruments is going to sound like garbage anyway and nobody would buy it

[lazygecko]

I'd assume this stuff would be properly licensed.

[Garpocalypse]

I think if i did something original and it was remixed i would feel as though i "made it" in some way. As though I was a respected musician. With fans. I would probably also judge my work, and myself, by how many remixes there were of it and the quality of the non-dubstep ones.

Then I would find out how much money was made off of it and guilt the hell out those people.

[DusK]

To me, it's like selling any other piece of fan art.

That being said, I'm a dirty hippie commie liberal socialist and would never sell remixes.

[Brandon Strader]

Bash me for saying this but at least in the case of the upcoming FF6 album, the remixes will be better than the chiptune originals by a lot. They may use the melodies from the old chiptunes but beyond that, it's modern productions and practically mostly original songs. *shrug* That's how it is with most remixes.

That being said, I'm a dirty hippie commie liberal socialist and would never sell remixes.

A dirty hippie commie liberal socialist would sell their remixes. Just enough to buy some pot with.

[Mikeaudio]

I would rather the original composer (if possible) give me their state of approval or acknowledgement (maybe even a conversation on the subject) rather than payment from the public. In remixing or covering their material its a way of saying "Thank you, and I appreciate the work you put into this and your work is not forgotten."

[Rexy]

While I have understood that artists like the OneUps and the Megas have gone out of their way to actually sell videogame remixes, it does make things difficult to acknowledge for some, especially on a rights based issue as brought up above.

That said, I'm actually fine with videogame remixes being sold, as long as the artist in question has acquired the rights to sell those remixes for profit. That's what made a band like the Megas work, as from what I heard they had a licence from Capcom themselves to sell the Megaman remixes that they are responsible for

[Solar Zero]

Within the artistic medium, I'm in a toss up between it being fair game and still being somewhat cheap to make a buck.

I do kinda agree though in which if you think about it in terms of how artist at conventions will sell fan art just fine, selling fan music is about at the same level. Point that I hold is that generally the fan art is for a single person while music is distributed in so many ways its hard to keep track.

*shrugs* I guess if there is a market for it, it'll happen either way, but I do agree with at the least getting some type of feedback from the original company to the games itself and probably even putting out a share of any profits to them for being kind enough to even let the person sell their music to begin with.

Not that those people need the money, but it shows face that you do thank them for being the original and giving you material to work with.

[Fishy]

I got absolutely no problem with stuff that is properly licensed (which isn't hard to do), but the grey area is difficult as it depends how arranged it is wether or not you can consider it a new artistic work on not.

I'm planning a CD of games stuff with a band at the moment, all of us agreed that we would offer the album for free as a download, but as a properly licensed CD also. Thus is people wish to pay for it, they can do so without loosing sleep. You can't say fairer then that imo.

[PixelPanic]

Now I have to bring up a new variable: What if the earnings were not distributed to the musicians and went straight into band funds for instruments/production work, so, obody is making money, but money is still being exchanged?

The idea has gone through my head regarding my band and such

[Benjamin Briggs]

wow, it took a LOT of searching but I found a place for licensing game arrangements!!

http://joypadrecords.com/

surely they're not the only ones, but it's nice to finally see something obviously set up to help with this

[GTAHater836]

If you ask me, remixes should be integrated into something such as a film or another game before being sold, but with a decent royalty paid to the original artist (and the remixer if it's a third person using the remix as just one piece in their work).

[PROTO·DOME]

Immoral or not, if you're not licensed in some way, you don't have a leg to stand on when the lawyers come knocking.

[EC2151]

I'm a student hobbyist.

I could care less if someone out there makes money from remixes!

[The Coop]

A dirty hippie commie liberal socialist would sell their remixes. Just enough to buy some pot with.

She (he?) needs to buy some shampoo and a pair of sheep shearers for that helmet of hair.

[Ethan Rex]

I like the idea of a pay what you want system for mixes. IMO that allows the buyer to acknowledge that its copyrighted material, but also gives them the right to give money to a musician whom they feel has created something in their own right from the original material. That being said, I don't mind people selling their remixes, as long as its a significant change from the original and not a "MIDI-rip" with drums or whatnot.

Another point I always want to make when seeing these profit-mixes: if the artist is good (or believes that they are good) enough to get me to pay, or wants to make money, then why not spend time making originals?

[Brandon Strader]

wow, it took a LOT of searching but I found a place for licensing game arrangements!!

http://joypadrecords.com/

surely they're not the only ones, but it's nice to finally see something obviously set up to help with this

Based on this website, OCR is illegal and all of the free remixes are required to pay royalties. And it costs $15 per source. PER SOURCE. $50k may not have been so much after all.

[psychowolf]

Ocremix needs to find a real lawyer to sort this confusion out.

Otherwise your all conjecturing on a subject you have no clue about.

Going by web sources will not help if anything goes to court.

My view on selling remixes? i personally don't care either way.

The main reason this debate has been reopened is because of the kickstarter for final fantasy 6.

Perhaps people are jealous or worried about the amount gained in the short amount of time.

Hell I'm a little dubious about the legalites.

nobuo uematsu might not kick up a stink about it but i know for certain Square Enix would if they caught wind of it.

Best suggestion is try to keep a low profile about this album.

Might be silly but if this stays under square enix's radar, you will not have to deal with legal issues.

But get a lawyer guys before conjecturing about it.

Either way you can then find out where you stand and also finally put this debate to bed.

[The Legendary Zoltan]

1. Otherwise your all conjecturing on a subject you have no clue about.

2. The main reason this debate has been reopened is because of the kickstarter for final fantasy 6.

3. nobuo uematsu might not kick up a stink about it but i know for certain Square Enix would if they caught wind of it.

4. Either way you can then find out where you stand and also finally put this debate to bed.

I have to respectfully disagree with you on several points.

1. Although I agree that a lawyer is the best way, I thought that we had already established that it is illegal and that we'd have to stop, IF someone felt the need to take action against it.

2. I reopened this topic and the reason I did is because I only just learned about artists such as Mega Ran and wanted to hear what people thought about that.

3. OCR is in no way a low profile site and considering how many other extremely popular Final Fantasy projects there have been, I would have to assume that Square knows all about us.

4. I wanted to know people's opinions and ideas about it. I don't see why we need to put this debate to bed, especially when it's all been healthy and interesting.

[Benjamin Briggs]

he just wanted to sound better than everyone else

[ectogemia]

Not sure if this has been covered and I reallllly can't bear to read the thread since legal stuff bores the living shit out of me, but what about pay-what-you-want models a la bandcamp? By that method, any money you make is technically a donation considering the minimum barrier for purchase is 'free'.