Streets of Rage "Souled Out"

[AngelCityOutlaw]

If you're a musician and you freak out on people via Twitter who crit. your music (which is going to happen anyway), that's real bad PR and it can potentially follow you to the grave.

Working for six months on a song and getting rejected by OCR isn't a waste of time.

Being pissed about it is.

[Argle]

All I'm going to say is, if you worked on a track constantly for 6 months and still didn't make it different enough from the source, you need to pick up the pace.

[Chimpazilla]

I spent six months on a track once, it got horrible critiques in the wip forum. Clearly I was doing something wrong. I took careful note of the critiques and started something new.

That something new took me four months and also got horrible critiques in the wip forum. Clearly I was still doing something wrong.

I reached out to some musicians whose music I respected, and made friends with them. I sent track after track to them, and clearly I was doing stuff wrong. A bit less wrong as time went on.

Each time I received bad criticism, either in a forum or in an email, I thanked the person heartily for the time they took to write the crit. Then I went off and cried for awhile, then considered the things said, and tried again.

I'm now at a point where I can write something within a couple of weeks and get fairly good comments on it. Still, each person who takes the time to comment points out to me the things I still haven't learned, or things I just couldn't hear because I'm too close to the mix. This has been absolutely invaluable and I'm so thankful for it. I rely on it. I then go off and learn that thing, or fix that thing, or try that new thing.

Each and every time I respond to anyone in a post or email, I'm always kind and gracious, even if the words written to me weren't so nice. If I can't respond kindly right away, I say nothing. Eventually, I am able to thank the person for whatever they said, and 9 times out of 10 their advice was correct. Clearly I'm doing something right. (funny, quite often, these very people whose words hurt me the most are the ones who give the most helpful advice, and often they become my good friends shortly thereafter, but only if I've treated them with respect and kindness, which I always do)

Sometimes I paint myself into a corner on a track and it really can't be salvaged. I used to hang onto that track for months, not wanting to admit having "wasted" time. Now, when I hit that "painted into a corner" thing, I either reach out to a collaborator to see if they have any ideas for the track, or I scrap the track. Either way, I've learned something from the effort and the time is never "wasted." Clearly I'm doing something right.

I also find myself getting invited onto album projects from time to time. I now have a reputation for being reliable and good to work with, as well as an improving musician. Clearly I'm doing something right.

Hang in there. Try again. Make some new friends. Make some new tracks. Get feedback along the way instead of waiting until the very end. And above all, be civil in what you write. You'll get there.

[Rukunetsu]

Hang in there. Try again. Make some new friends. Make some new tracks. Get feedback along the way instead of waiting until the very end. And above all, be civil in what you write. You'll get there.

Well said.

All I'm going to say is, if you worked on a track constantly for 6 months and still didn't make it different enough from the source, you need to pick up the pace.

I'd have to agree with this as well. Cold, but it's the truth. The notion that the more time you spend on a something automatically means it must be good/accepted will get you shot down every time. Be it Artwork or Music.

[Cash]

If you're placing so much stake on one decision, you really need to step back and reevaluate your attitude. Creating music, in my opinion, should be about the journey, the actual process. These are the questions you should be asking: "did I enjoy making this song" and "did I learn something". If the answer to one or both of those is yes, you didn't waste your time. One decision does not and should not invalidate the work you put into your song.

The feedback you received from the panel was very positive, you should be happy. Not everybody gets a resubmit vote, address their critiques and try again. You're blowing this whole thing way out of proportion. They actually enjoyed it, and you call them cunts? If this is how you handle positive feedback, you probably shouldn't be posting music on the internet. You'll be very lucky indeed if this is the worst feedback you receive on your music.

[Garpocalypse]

Wow damn, some immaturity from a half decent potential. I'm shocked. Not everyone who works on Streets of Rage remixes are this immature.

The only remix I have submitted so far was a Streets of Rage mix that i worked on for over a year before it got No'ed. (I still dream of getting it resubbed at some point). It sucked but it wasn't a huge deal. Listening to the version I subbed now i'm glad it got no'ed because it was AWFUL!

On a postive note, if this mix came this close to passing then i'm getting all my stuff subbed NOW. or in a few more weeks of work.

[timaeus222]

All I'm going to say is, if you worked on a track constantly for 6 months and still didn't make it different enough from the source, you need to pick up the pace.

Maybe I can put this in a less demeaning way, since your wording sounds just a tad harsh.

Not every song absolutely has to be composed within 3 hours ("Picolescence" by zircon), or 9 hours ("Expansive Networking" by me), or 24 hours (One of my remixes for GBC 25th Anniversary album), or 3 days ("Time to Oil Up!" by zircon), or 9 days ("Cloudhopping" by Chimpazilla and me), or 2 months (a few of my older, kinda bad remixes), or 4 months (a few of my better remixes), or 6 months (this SoR remix). If you've spent 6 months on a remix without a 1-2 week break, that's too much time. Even 4 months is too much. Limit yourself to 2 months max on something. Arrangements tend to come along better as you're writing a song, not when the whole arrangement is already done and needs to be adjusted somehow. You know how humans are; "change is bad" and all that. You can most definitely think your remix is good simply because you're used to it. Just because you're used to your remix doesn't mean it's good. If it's not getting good quality crits (which can absolutely sound negative or positive) after 6 months, just move on and start another remix. Writing music is about learning the process and having fun. Have that fun.

Time doesn't decide how good a song is. The better you get, the faster you might be able to compose a song. Inspiration doesn't come right away. You just have to know when inspiration happens to be good enough to carry you through an entire song and have it sound good. Conversely, spending a lot of time doesn't mean it'll be good, either. You just have to gauge your skill level as you go so that your expectations aren't too high above your abilities. Don't rank yourself higher than your capacity, or you'll be disappointed in yourself for no sufficient reason. "Why am I not as good as him?" "How is it she can do that and I can't?" Who cares? Develop your own skills. When you can figure out for yourself how those people did that, you're probably close to how good they are anyways. Maybe even better if you give that extra effort.

Keep writing music and getting feedback. So Rozo made a mistake saying your SoR arrangement was good enough. Rozo doesn't always do arrangement crits, so it's totally possible he could be wrong sometimes on arrangement crits. I don't do arrangement crits often either, but if I really like a remix WIP, sometimes I take a shot at examining the arrangement. I personally tend to lean towards the more negative end of crits because being too optimistic could bring false hope. That way, if something good happens to a WIP given mostly helpful yet negative crits, the remixer will just feel even more awesome when it turns out to be better than he/she thought. Life is all about risks. You know the rest.

[Liontamer]

No worries.

Red Rum was just pissed and it's hopefully smoothed over on the Tweeter.

https://twitter.com/Real_Red_Rum/status/299934313674334208

‏@Real_Red_Rum

@ocremix are a bunch of cunts. Six months of hard work every single day, down the drain. I've wasted my time. They can go fuck themselves.

@freqrexy

@Real_Red_Rum If @ocremix are what you say they are, they could've flat out destroyed my OWN hard work too, as well as countless others

‏@ocremix

@freqrexy @Real_Red_Rum Well, people feeling destroyed after a rejection on something they worked hard on is natural. Gotta bounce back!

@Real_Red_Rum

@ocremix @freqrexy I apologize for my previous tweet. It was immature on my part. I won't give up on this. One OCR is something I want.

Everyone's a winner. Back when Rexy was regularly rejected, I'm sure she felt the same way.

The things I'd say to Greg in regards to these replies are two-fold.

1) DON'T compromise your artistic vision for an arrangement to accommodate the OCR standards. When we judges make suggestions, it's with the OCR arrangement standards in mind. But if altering that arrangement isn't something you want to do, and you don't feel addressing the criticisms will improve your own enjoyment of the track, don't do it. Apply our criticisms in a way where you know you're improving the track in your own eyes, and not just ours.

2) We don't want you to put your heart into and submit a track that's too much of a close cover only to be surprised and angry it didn't make it for being too cover-ish, especially after 3 people, including 2 Workshop mods, tell you why they believe it's not going to make it. That said, this SoR track WAS mostly a straightforward cover. If you need guidance on understanding the level of interpretation needed to make it, you have to explore mixes posted in the last year, compare them with the originals and get a better feel for what we're looking for. People are here to help you get to where you want to be.

[Chimpazilla]

Red Rum, why settle for "one OCR" posting? Take everyone's advice, stay more active here, make friends etc. etc. and you may be surprised at how many postings you get. Just sayin'.

[Rozovian]

So Rozo made a mistake saying your SoR arrangement was good enough. Rozo doesn't always do arrangement crits, so it's totally possible he could be wrong sometimes on arrangement crits.

With my meandering concoctions (some ppl try to call them arrangements), it's usually for the better that I don't cover arrangement too much, but it's clearly something I should improve on. We're all learning here.

[Rexy]

In a way, Chimp is right on the connections thing. Originally I was afraid of making such connections in case I'd get rejected again, but if your heart's in doing something for the community, it's a great idea to get out there and see what impact it can make.

You may be pleasantly surprised with the results too; in my case, Brandon Strader towed me back into being a community regular, helped out with gear suggestions and even got me to perform death metal vocals for a yet-to-be-posted track; OA and DusK got me to do piano parts for tracks they worked on; Hylian Lemon wanted a piano performer for an arrangement on one of his Zelda: Oracle albums; and Monobrow even saved an old track of mine that burdened me for years. And that's just the tip of the iceberg; at the end of the day, great connections can help you considerably if you want to be a part of the community.

Otherwise if you're really distressed over the standards, like I knew I was when I was struggling to even get a second track on the site, a brief break from the community and working on other material could help you. In the five years or so between mix submissions for both "Time's Anxiety" and "Hogtied", I focused more time on doing things for myself, improving social skills in other communities, still listening to the odd OC Remix now and again while still looking for album opportunities and running the PRC for a while, and even developing video editing skills which transferred well to OverClocked University's MAGFest set last month. Sometimes a bit of non-literal 'soul searching' would calm you over in the long run.

Naturally, past rejections did make me feel afraid of trying again. But even with recent rejections, I saw that if there was a way to refine the track according to feedback, then I'd be more than happy to try again. The judges are surprisingly more approachable than you think, especially within these past 3-4 years.

As for the tweet, that was the first of four I sent over to Red Rum this morning. Let me get all four to fit the context:

@Real_Red_Rum If @ocremix are what you say they are, they could've flat out destroyed my OWN hard work too, as well as countless others

@Real_Red_Rum If anything, their feedback was gentle. They loved your track, but it needed more arrangement ideas at the end of the day.

@Real_Red_Rum It's bad to see it happen, but if your 'killer studio chops' are in the clear...

@Real_Red_Rum ...then I don't see why you can't try again, same track or not. Please don't be discouraged

The last few tweets ended up summing the whole thing up rather nicely too. I could say more, but I'm sure most of the visitors to the thread have already stated other thoughts on the matter. Again, keep your chin up, refine your arrangement ideas, and let's see you hopefully make it soon

[Argle]

Honestly, reading the judges crits makes it seem like conservative arrangement is the only thing holding you back. So just set a goal for yourself to change up the arrangement in a timely fashion, resub, bada bing.

[Red Rum]

I just thought I'd say I apologize for overreacting the way I did. It was very immmature and childish, and I was just upset over the fact that my mix didn't make the cut. I should have took into consideration that most works that are submitted to the panel get rejected. It was foolish behavior on my part and unacceptable.

Maybe I should look at this as a learning experience, in multiple ways. Not just for music, but my reactions. I've been at VGM for a very long time. I started back in 2001 on VGMix. As a mere rookie, I was always hoping that one day, that I could have one of my works make it on OCReMix. I've enjoyed a lot of the music submitted here. I love music, especially video game music. I want to be on OCReMix so badly because I feel that this is the place where I could push myself to my limits. Each time I submit something on this site, I usually give it my all. Souled Out, probably out of every single track I've done, I put so much into. I'll admit, I can get lazy at times with music, but this piece was not one I sat back and half-assed. That is why I was upset, and I blew it way out of proportion.

Yes, the judges did give me positive feedback. I should have taken that feedback and reflected on what I can improve on. Instead, I jumped to conclusions and it blew up in my face in a big way. I'm not asking for forgiveness, I just want you all to understand. I've been trying to reach this point for twelve years and I got frustrated.

Again, I'm sorry for everything. I shouldn't have lashed out at OCReMix or it's community. We're all human, we all make mistakes. I'll be the better person here and say that I made a huge one. I shouldn't have attacked OCReMix on Twitter.

[Chimpazilla]

Maybe I should look at this as a learning experience, in multiple ways. Not just for music, but my reactions.

This is the most important thing you said. Bravo! And we are all learning this, every day. Working within a forum is an excellent way to work on your people skills, too.

No one here is mad at you. In fact, this spurred quite the cohesive conversation I think. It's all good.

So make some new stuff, post here, and we'll all work through it together.

[Palpable]

Again, I'm sorry for everything. I shouldn't have lashed out at OCReMix or it's community. We're all human, we all make mistakes. I'll be the better person here and say that I made a huge one. I shouldn't have attacked OCReMix on Twitter.

We've all been there with rejections. First time I was rejected here I wrote an angry screed in my LiveJournal (thankfully, it was private). I had put a lot of work into that mix, but years down the line I know exactly why it wasn't ready to be posted. I hope you stick around, but even if not, I definitely hope you don't give up on music as a result of one specific website. Doesn't sound like you will.

[Rukunetsu]

Good going Red. And do keep at the music bro.