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Jessica Jones

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So it's been available in its entire first season for the past week or so and I binged watched the hell out of it as so many did. What did you all think? I personally loved the hell out of this show and there better be a season two. I will go as far to say that this is, in my opinion, the best thing to come from the MCU. The shiny, epic look of the block buster Marvel films is great and all, but the darker, gritty vibe of Netflix's series like JJ and Daredevil is even better I think. In this show, the themes of post-traumatic stress, rape, emotional abuse, etc. make the show feel a lot more "human" for lack of a better word. The writing is excellent and the cast really sells it. Krysten Ritter totally owns it as Jessica Jones and David Tennant easily took one of Marvel's lamest and obscure villains (outside of DareDevil anyway) and I honestly think turned him into the best villain Marvel has put to picture so far! 

 

I'd say if I have one complaint, and they do acknowledge this in the series, is that for a city that has the Avengers and was attacked by aliens and Norse gods, it sure takes a lot to try to convince anyone that a guy with mind control powers exists.

 

I'm sure not everyone has seen it or at least all of it yet, but what do you think so far?

 

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Oh finally, someone wants to talk about this show.

 

This is what the movies are lacking: characters I can give a fuck about. Jessica was completely believable and plausible. She had powers, but she wasn't all bravado and guts like everyone in the movies. Even when The Avengers do get knocked down a peg or two, they just "slow-mo montage with inspiring music" their way through it and get right back up, just in time for the next big fight.

 

Yeah, good for them, but those movies aren't for thinking about: they're for sitting back and watching the action scenes and snappy one-liners. Jessica Jones is for sitting back, watching the characters actually have character, and see them do something about it. There isn't that much fighting or action in Jessica Jones, and I think that's the way to go now.

 

We've been watching Iron Man, Cap, Hulk and Thor smash the shit out of robots and tanks and planes and whatever while Black Widow, Hawkeye and Falcon judo/karate/krav maga their way through faceless minions for now many years now? It's fun and all, but it's all we really get to see any more. (I haven't seen Ant-Man yet, so I can't comment on that one)

 

Jessica Jones (and to somewhat a lesser amount in the case of Daredevil) gives us people that are just soooo realistically flawed and acceptable as people. She has to take shitty jobs for a really despicable lawyer, not go out and punch baddies. If she doesn't take those obs, she's out on the street. She barely gets physical unless she's either out of options or just patience. There's no massive force against her: every day life is against her. Oh, and Killgrave. Ooooh, Killgrave. That fucker!

 

I didn't even know David Tennent was in this show, so when I first saw him, it was a massive surprise. Killgrave is a right bastard, and I could not wait for someone to finally get their hands on him. Every time they did and he got away, I was thiiiis close to throwing the remote at the screen.

 

Best of the Marvel shows, hands down. I have high hopes for the future Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Defenders series now.

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I will reiterate in part my audio review of Jessica Jones, partially redacted for work purposes, and transcribed into text form:

 

"Jessica Jones! Poor man's 50 Shades of Gray; I can't afford to read, I don't buy books! But I'll subscribe to Netflix..."

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I will reiterate in part my audio review of Jessica Jones, partially redacted for work purposes, and transcribed into text form:

 

"Jessica Jones! Poor man's 50 Shades of Gray; I can't afford to read, I don't buy books! But I'll subscribe to Netflix..."

 

What?

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I will reiterate in part my audio review of Jessica Jones, partially redacted for work purposes, and transcribed into text form:

 

"Jessica Jones! Poor man's 50 Shades of Gray; I can't afford to read, I don't buy books! But I'll subscribe to Netflix..."

 

 

What?

 

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Poor man's 50 shades of gray indeed.

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Comparing this show to, or describing it as "poor man's 50 shades of Grey" is a stupid, dishonest, unfounded criticism that you should be embarrassed by. Sounds to me more like you guys have a personal problem with some pretty tame sex scenes that amount to less than 5 minutes of the series run-time. 

 

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Well, when your stated opinion is a comparison of a novel series (and a movie or two based upon them) that promotes an unhealthy BDSM-based relationship with a psychopath who treats the main character like shit because "she gradually learns to like it", to a TV series about a woman with super-strength, that has a soft-core, no-nudity sex scene (that I honestly didn't even remember happening until someone posted pictures about it)... you're going to get called out on it.

 

And thus, you have been called out on it.

 

To that matter, let's compare the number of sex scenes from the Shades movie to the JJ series.

 

The movie has 20 minutes of sex scenes, with a whopping 7 scenes (not counting nudity, not counting any of the strictly BDSM stuff, and not counting any of the ass-slaps, which would make that number MUCH higher).

 

Jessica Jones has... two? Three? I honestly can't remember. I can look up Shades stats easily (hence the above paragraph), but I can't find anything about JJ's sex scenes. Well, I guess that means people are more interested in the ones from Shades than JJ. :)

 

Poor man's 50 Shades of Grey, indeed...

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According to vulture, there are half a dozen sex scenes in Jessica Jones. If you round each episode, you get 50 minutes per episode. In nearly 11 hours, there are six sex scenes each which lasts no more than a minute. Quote:

 

"Jessica Jones’s creators and performers told us that those scenes grew out of the show’s takes on gender, power, and superhero-genre tropes — and that they were much more enjoyable to watch than to film."

 

If, out of 11 hours of a story about a super-powered woman dealing with PTSD as a result of being raped, abused, manipulated etc by a man with mind control powers, but she decides to face him and make the voices of his victims heard instead of running away, the opinion you arrive at is "poor man's 50 shades of Grey" from less than 6 minutes of sex scenes, justified scenes unlike 50 Shades' gratuitous ones

 

Then yes, you should expect a negative response to said opinion.

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Defend it as much as you want, it doesn't matter. There were enough sex scenes, including violent sex scenes, in the first 5 episodes that I would not recommend the show to friends or family. Though I did recommend it to a pen pal.

 

I am not tumblr, your explanations for why such scenes are justified might fit better there, or maybe they wouldn't. You may see it in a more positive light but I did not, and I found them to diminish the strength of the character, and I found the stereotypes and treatment of the protagonist sexist. 

 

And there is a violent sex scene taken straight from the pages of 50 Shades. Agree or disagree, I don't really care, just saying my piece and if you don't like it, fine. If you want to argue, go to the Tropes thread. 

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Defend it as much as you want, it doesn't matter. There were enough sex scenes, including violent sex scenes, in the first 5 episodes that I would not recommend the show to friends or family. Though I did recommend it to a pen pal.

 

I am not tumblr, your explanations for why such scenes are justified might fit better there, or maybe they wouldn't. You may see it in a more positive light but I did not, and I found them to diminish the strength of the character, and I found the stereotypes and treatment of the protagonist sexist. 

 

I'm not sure which "violent sex scenes" you're referring to. The show actually made a point of not showing rape, but instead showing its impact on victims living with having been raped. This is all just making me question if you even really watched the show. What scene "straight from the pages of 50 shades of Grey" are you talking about? I honestly do not know what you are talking about.

 

You have a problem with the sex scenes. Fine. You could've said "it had too much sex for my liking" or at least provided some explanation. Instead, you seem to be dwelling on this one aspect of the show you didn't like and shutting out the many non-sexual aspects of the show. Instead, you came in here and said "It's a poor man's fifty shades of Grey" and continue to provide nothing to back that up. It makes you look like a troll.

 

ANYWAY

 

 

Jessica Jones (and to somewhat a lesser amount in the case of Daredevil) gives us people that are just soooo realistically flawed and acceptable as people. She has to take shitty jobs for a really despicable lawyer, not go out and punch baddies. If she doesn't take those obs, she's out on the street. She barely gets physical unless she's either out of options or just patience. There's no massive force against her: every day life is against her. Oh, and Killgrave. Ooooh, Killgrave. That fucker!

 

I didn't even know David Tennent was in this show, so when I first saw him, it was a massive surprise. Killgrave is a right bastard, and I could not wait for someone to finally get their hands on him. Every time they did and he got away, I was thiiiis close to throwing the remote at the screen.

 

Best of the Marvel shows, hands down. I have high hopes for the future Luke Cage, Iron Fist and Defenders series now.

 

Yeah, I really like how they didn't exploit that she has super strength and all that - it was just used out of necessity like you say and I really did find myself wanting to punch the TV whenever Kilgrave showed up. Tennant is really good at playing a sociopath lol

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Comparing this show to, or describing it as "poor man's 50 shades of Grey" is a stupid, dishonest, unfounded criticism that you should be embarrassed by.

 

You need you some Vitamin D and Riboflavin, son. If your skin gets any thinner, your skeleton's just going to fall right out!

 

Oh well, better than January Jones, amirite fellas?

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You need you some Vitamin D and Riboflavin, son. If your skin gets any thinner, your skeleton's just going to fall right out!

 

Oh well, better than January Jones, amirite fellas?

 

Trust me, when it looks like I'm flying off the handle, I'm actually calm as shit whilst typing and thinking about it. 

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Man, there's this great show on but everyone's not watching it because it's exactly like a shitty movie based upon a shitty book based upon a shitty fanfic of a shitty series of novels about vampires fucking werewolves.

 

THOSE SEX SCENES RUINED EVERYTHING FOR US.

 

Even if you don't like the few pg-13 sex scenes, you still have:

 

1. a good premise (superhero that never got to be one, turned against herself and innocents, trying to find the man that made her a killer)

 

2. a really good villain (Killgrave is just sooo hate-able. You want him to get punched, but you love hearing him be an asshole)

 

3. decent drama (the scenes where Killgrave takes Jessica back to her old house, for once)

 

4. some funny as hell dialog between characters ("Killgrave? Why not just... Murderhole?")

 

So even if you are somehow magically turned off by sex scenes that are out-paced by friday-night rerun movies from the 80s, the rest of the show is still perfectly good.

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 Falcon judo/karate/krav maga their way through faceless minions for now many years now? It's fun and all, but it's all we really get to see any more. (I haven't seen Ant-Man yet, so I can't comment on that one)

 

I dunno, while that's technically true, I thought the Captain America films did a great job handling characterization (Avengers films...less so). The second film in particular was the superhero spy movie I always wanted.

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Just watched the first 4 episodes. It doesn't feel really "MCU" to me (Daredevil felt more it was part of the MCU to me), but I like the overall atmosphere so far. Will see how it goes... ;)

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I am not tumblr, your explanations for why such scenes are justified might fit better there, or maybe they wouldn't. You may see it in a more positive light but I did not, and I found them to diminish the strength of the character, and I found the stereotypes and treatment of the protagonist sexist.

 

Genuinely curious, because I have not seen this argument anywhere else: why do you think Jessica's treatment in the story is sexist?

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Sorry for the delay. OK, so it has been a while since I've watched it, a couple weeks or so. From memory. Compared to Daredevil, I felt like in Jessica Jones there was a lot more emphasis put on gender. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is put so far in the forefront. Whereas in Daredevil, you just follow the character, no explicit sex scenes, nobody going "Wow, she's so strong and that is unusual because she's a woman." I never read the comic and I'm sure they were just being true to the original material. But there were a lot of "sex scenes" in the first 5 episodes alone. Which again, is not that big of a deal to set up a character, but I question whether the amount of detail, and the sheer amount of sex scenes, was really necessary to establish the character, and what their intentions were by going as far as they did. As the show goes on it becomes more clear that Jessica is vulnerable despite her strength, and has been involved in some very negative stuff with Kilgrave in the past, which is gone into in a lot of detail. Not saying it was completely unnecessary but again I question why it had to go to the extent that it did, and whether this was written specifically to "trigger" people or exert by force an amount of drama based on her gender rather than her merit as a character. Ultimately there's nothing wrong with having a vulnerable female protagonist but I thought the treatment was too shallow and relied too much on shock. At the beginning of 1 of the episodes she had a contest with a man where they're both punching a punching bag to see who is stronger. Of course Jessica wins and says the man's a bitch (my paraphrasing), then explains away her strength as having done a lot of pilates.. it's just absurd. By comparison I also thought Luke Cage's story arc was too stereotypical. I loved his character. But I found myself questioning why the character had to be so violent and at times fly off the handle when it wasn't necessary to go as far as he did. (I'm not talking about the moments when he gets mind-controlled by Kilgrave. That made sense.) The whole arc where he finds out that a drunk bus driver may have been responsible for his wife's death and then suddenly becomes an angry murderer felt very shallow and out of character. There's the sex scene from 50 shades where he says "I don't want to break you" so he slows down, but then for whatever reason he flips her over and goes harder? What the hell is the significance of that? If I were to watch it again rather than just point out a few specific things from memory there's probably more I could mention, but there's some moments that stuck out. 

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Sorry for the delay. OK, so it has been a while since I've watched it, a couple weeks or so. From memory. Compared to Daredevil, I felt like in Jessica Jones there was a lot more emphasis put on gender. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but it is put so far in the forefront. Whereas in Daredevil, you just follow the character, no explicit sex scenes, nobody going "Wow, she's so strong and that is unusual because she's a woman." I never read the comic and I'm sure they were just being true to the original material. But there were a lot of "sex scenes" in the first 5 episodes alone. Which again, is not that big of a deal to set up a character, but I question whether the amount of detail, and the sheer amount of sex scenes, was really necessary to establish the character, and what their intentions were by going as far as they did. As the show goes on it becomes more clear that Jessica is vulnerable despite her strength, and has been involved in some very negative stuff with Kilgrave in the past, which is gone into in a lot of detail. Not saying it was completely unnecessary but again I question why it had to go to the extent that it did, and whether this was written specifically to "trigger" people or exert by force an amount of drama based on her gender rather than her merit as a character. Ultimately there's nothing wrong with having a vulnerable female protagonist but I thought the treatment was too shallow and relied too much on shock. At the beginning of 1 of the episodes she had a contest with a man where they're both punching a punching bag to see who is stronger. Of course Jessica wins and says the man's a bitch (my paraphrasing), then explains away her strength as having done a lot of pilates.. it's just absurd. By comparison I also thought Luke Cage's story arc was too stereotypical. I loved his character. But I found myself questioning why the character had to be so violent and at times fly off the handle when it wasn't necessary to go as far as he did. (I'm not talking about the moments when he gets mind-controlled by Kilgrave. That made sense.) The whole arc where he finds out that a drunk bus driver may have been responsible for his wife's death and then suddenly becomes an angry murderer felt very shallow and out of character. There's the sex scene from 50 shades where he says "I don't want to break you" so he slows down, but then for whatever reason he flips her over and goes harder? What the hell is the significance of that? If I were to watch it again rather than just point out a few specific things from memory there's probably more I could mention, but there's some moments that stuck out. 

 

I'm going to speculate here based on some reading I've read about the show, but not actually having seen it:

 

If your drama is centered around specific gender/sexual conflicts, would it not make sense to explore those conflicts in detail?

That's like saying "I knew this was a drama about the horrors of war but they didn't have to show us people getting shot and blown up by explosives". Sad/terrible things and good drama are rarely "family friendly", and "family friendly" caters to an age group (kids) that wouldn't really have much of an informed and meaningful reaction to genuinely complicated social and emotional issues (while sacrificing the kind of R-rated content that's needed to address these issues more effectively than words on a page). There are rare exceptions, but not when a main character conflict is... well, sexual abuse.

 

Also, 50 Shades of Grey is about BDSM, not general sexual abuse/rape; while its portrayal is questionable and as many argue flat out wrong about BDSM culture, that is the core of the narrative. Comparing this drama to 50 Shades, like Angel said, irresponsible. They serve different motives.

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The show is about a detective who solves cases for people using her strength to intimidate, etc..  your points would be spot on if the show was about sexual conflicts.

 

Maybe it's closer to a Sex in the City vibe than 50 shades. But there's definitely at least a shade of 50 shades in there. And it's really not necessary to the narrative of the show. 

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The show is about a detective who solves cases for people using her strength to intimidate, etc.. your points would be spot on if the show was about sexual conflicts.

If the show director(s), runners, producer(s), writers etc. decided to devote lots of time to sexual conflicts... wouldn't that make the show more about that? Maybe that's actually what they wanted to do? Maybe your expectation was off.

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Maybe my expectations were off....but if that's the case it backs up my original review

 

Except the comparison to 50 Shades of Grey was already debunked in this thread, twice. So nothing really backs up your original review, which was just pseudo-intellectual "yeah I know names of different things in culture, that makes me right, right?".

 

And calling it "poor man's 50 Shades" would have to insinuate that 50 Shades addresses sexual abuse and emotional manipulation more intelligently than JJ does, so it's unbacked until you actually explain why. It also ignores the fact that JJ has a lot of narrative work around things that aren't just a sexual conflict. And also ignores the fact that 50 Shades is about BDSM, not rape. You don't have a lot going there for your premise and main quote you decide to bring to the thread.

 

 

Maybe it's closer to a Sex in the City vibe than 50 shades. But there's definitely at least a shade of 50 shades in there. And it's really not necessary to the narrative of the show. 

 

As far as what I can tell, from interviews and reading about the plot, it makes a lot of sense given the context of the modern day that the show chooses to emphasize those issues. It's progressive, and highlights concepts of rape culture in the TV/big media light where it can reach a lot of people.

 

Also from a character writing perspective, it makes sense to spend time on explaining in detail why your characters act a certain way towards each other. That's not unnecessary, that's just good writing. Show, don't tell. In TV, you can, well... actually show. That's the champion ability of the medium.

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