Sony PS3

[dsx100]

This is someone who has done a bunch of freelancing, including doing computer animated commercials. He has gotten by with his work with not nearly as recent computers as you'd expect (at least parts considered 2-3 years old). I still don't buy that argument.

Edit: As I thought, CAG broke the news on this pricing of the PS3 as usual. Also, you can get 5 free bluray DVDs with the purchase of the PS3.

You can definately get the job done using pretty much anything, I'm not trying to argue that point, your friend is right. However, I am just trying to get the point across that it does help. Those cards do free up a lot of ram and offer things like texture and shader renderings that can help out the finished product. On older systems, doing stuff like that could take a little more work and little more time to complete, but it is still very possible. In fact the same goes for gaming. You can get good games to run good off older or lower end systems. Believe me, for at least 4 years, I got games like Unreal 2004, Doom 3, Warcraft 3, Age of Mythology, and Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic to run off an Nvidia Geforce MX4000 and 512 system RAM. For me, these games ran and looked great but where still weren't that great compared to what higher end systems could do. It all just depends on what you want out of your games, 3d applications, and etc. If you want higher performance, even if they work fine now, you should upgrade your card.

By the way, that sounds like an excellent deal. Hopefully it will last till the holiday season.

[BardicKnowledge]

Other PS3 news: NG Sigma is awesome. My fraternity is renting it this week (started last night, have it until Tuesday) -- we finished the first 5 chapters (4 Ryu + 1 Rachel).

Having the Rachel chapters integrated into the storyline makes her feel like she belongs as part of the game instead of just a DOA style model to stare at every couple of chapters.

In any case, as someone who played Black, this is still worth it. And dual-wielding rocks -- it's a risky way of fighting, but fun as hell (flying swallow + bounce-off? yes)

[Groovemaster303]

Ninja gaiden is the only decent game on the PS3...

i would have bought it but i was so fed up waiting for some games to come out that last week i sold it to Game who gave me an mental £275 cash.

I took the money and ran.... to Currys and bought myself a decent laptop which is perfect for sketching ideas on for some new tracks.

[The Pezman]

bluray DVDs

OMG CONTRADICTION IN TERMS

It's pretty obvious the deck seemed stacked against the PS3 right now, but I'm not ready to count it out. White Knight, MGS4 and (eventually) Final Fantasy XIII will, I imagine, help turn the tide. I don't need a 360 because, as I mentioned in the Gears of War thread, I prefer to play games on a device which allows me to upgrade my graphics card, and there are next to no exclusives for either the 360 or its little brother. I'll probably get a Wii eventually as well... eventually. Do you think they'll start shipping units with HD graphics cards? I can't imagine it can be that expensive...

[SilverStar]

OMG CONTRADICTION IN TERMS

It's pretty obvious the deck seemed stacked against the PS3 right now, but I'm not ready to count it out. White Knight, MGS4 and (eventually) Final Fantasy XIII will, I imagine, help turn the tide. I don't need a 360 because, as I mentioned in the Gears of War thread, I prefer to play games on a device which allows me to upgrade my graphics card, and there are next to no exclusives for either the 360 or its little brother. I'll probably get a Wii eventually as well... eventually. Do you think they'll start shipping units with HD graphics cards? I can't imagine it can be that expensive...

Er.. PS3 doesn't have upgradeable video, either. In fact, the only console that did, was the N64, with the help of the 4mb expansion card.

You don't seem to realize just how much trouble upgrading the video chip in a console would be, to actually make it more powerful. That means that any games developed for the new chip, won't function on the old one.

The thing about game consoles, is they're more or less a fixed device. Fixed specs, so there's no compatibility issues, or screwed up drivers. It looks just as good on everyone's machine as it does on yours.

[The Pezman]

I prefer to play games on a device which allows me to upgrade my graphics card

This was in reference to a PC.

[The Coop]

Er.. PS3 doesn't have upgradeable video, either. In fact, the only console that did, was the N64, with the help of the 4mb expansion card.

Actually, as far as I know, that wasn't a "video" upgrade at all perse. It was just an extra 4MB of memory that allowed the system to run in a higher resolution (640x480), use a better color depth, or use larger/improved textures (all of which required more memory to be used, which made implementing them without the expansion pack tricky due to the N64's rather low RAM count). It didn't do anything but provide more storage space for data, which enabled the game makers to use more of the N64's already existing features (bad planning on Nintendo's part there). It didn't add new abilities, it just made it so the pre-existing ones could be used more easily. So really, it was basically the same thing the Saturn used with it's 1MB/4MB memory expansion carts, or that the TurboGrafx-16 used with its various memory upgrade cards.

[The Damned]

So, remember last week, when everyone was talking about a price drop for the PS3, and all those stores had ads published for this price drop, and then there were insider reports from all over the place saying that there was going to be a price drop? And remember how Sony said there wasn't going to be one, and then they had PR people and marketing guys swear on bibles that there wasn't going to be a price drop, and then they had the big hunchos in Japan and the US saying that a price drop was out of the question?

Yeah.

Sony either is full of liars, or no one knows what the hell they are doing.

Price cut-wise, this changes very little. You still pay $500 or more for a slight increase in hard drive capacity. Oh, and a game that's glitchy and doesn't sell well on its own.

Honestly, I'd be interested in a PS3, if the price was a hell of a lot lower, if they had any games I was interested in, and they stopped this constant bullshit. Hell, even Microsoft is more direct and straightforward than this, and they were masters of FUDD for years.

Sony, please... you did so well with the PS1 and PS2. What's making you do this crap?

[SilverStar]

So, remember last week, when everyone was talking about a price drop for the PS3, and all those stores had ads published for this price drop, and then there were insider reports from all over the place saying that there was going to be a price drop? And remember how Sony said there wasn't going to be one, and then they had PR people and marketing guys swear on bibles that there wasn't going to be a price drop, and then they had the big hunchos in Japan and the US saying that a price drop was out of the question?

Yeah.

Sony either is full of liars, or no one knows what the hell they are doing.

Price cut-wise, this changes very little. You still pay $500 or more for a slight increase in hard drive capacity. Oh, and a game that's glitchy and doesn't sell well on its own.

Honestly, I'd be interested in a PS3, if the price was a hell of a lot lower, if they had any games I was interested in, and they stopped this constant bullshit. Hell, even Microsoft is more direct and straightforward than this, and they were masters of FUDD for years.

Sony, please... you did so well with the PS1 and PS2. What's making you do this crap?

There's only 2 possibilities: Either everyone in Sony is as on the ball as Perrin was for Nintendo.. or they're just outright lying.

Way to go, Sony!

Edit:

Oh, and didn't Sony mock MS, when they started doing in-store price cuts, saying something along the lines of, "If sales were going as you expected, you wouldn't have to cut prices so soon after launch"?

Now here Sony is, 8 months in, cutting the price by a full 100 bucks. After killing the entire lower-end model. Poor bastards. PS3 may wind up as Sony's Saturn. Their big stumbling block, with a few good games.. and then the PS4 might be something worth owning, but be hit with such bad press from the PS3 that it gets killed off quickly.

[The Damned]

Let's see... they took the system with the 60 gig hard drive that sold for $599, and dropped it to $499.

Then they took the 80 gig system that they said was not going to be sold in North America, and priced it for North America at $599.

Now, since they discontinued the 20 gig model, which had certain features left out to make it cheaper. The 60 gig system used to be the high-end version, but now the high-end version is the low-end version. This means that you get all those left-out things plus another 40 gigs.

For the same price as the old low-end system. When you look at it that way, it seems like a good deal.

Except for a few things:

1. Only the people that bought the 20 gig system are going to see it that way. And guess what? They already spent $499 on a PS3. Unless one of them can find someone to buy their lower-end 20 gig model for the full $499, they aren't likely to see the point in buying an upgraded version for something they just bought a few months ago at the same price. No one is going to do that. Not even the fanboys!

2. People that haven't bought a PS3 yet are still going to see $499 and $599 price tags. They aren't going to look at what it has that the old model didn't, and think "what a deal". They are going to look at that price tag, and they are going to think it's too expensive. Then they will see the Wiis and 360s, and think how much cheaper they are.

3. When someone sees the two models and the price difference, they are going to buy the $499 one. Why make an 80 gig model to begin with? Why split your customer base? Well, I guess with those prices, splitting isn't very likely. I guess it would be more like, "why drive your customer base away from one product and towards another?" Why not just sell the cheaper system and make money period?

The only answer I can think of is that that is exactly what they want to do: make people think the $499 model is cheaper. Not the greatest plan, but considering Sony's track record these last two years...

[Bahamut]

What Sony is doing is making Microsoft's XBox 360 Elite look that much better..and that's a bit pricey for a game system as it is.

[SilverStar]

What Sony is doing is making Microsoft's XBox 360 Elite look that much better..and that's a bit pricey for a game system as it is.

What Sony is doing, is trying to make sure they have the cheapest Bluray player on the market with the PS3, since the cheapest standalone was also cut in price.

I don't think Sony really gives a damn about the games at this point, they're just trying to cut HD-DVD completely out of the market. Even if they have to side with as many sinking ships as possible(see: Blockbuster).

I think Sony is trying to do too many things at once, and they've totally lost focus. Then again.. should PS3 actually survive to the point where it gets down to 299-399 for the 60GB(hell.. I wouldn't have minded a $399 20GB model, if it at least had the other features. Be a good comparison, to a 360 Premium), that's when the sales will really start picking up. But, I think Sony's shown their hand, here.. they don't want to make it too cheap. They want to keep adding more and more, keeping it at the same relative point. So, in 3 years we might be seeing a PS3 with full PS1/PS2 software emulation(with upscaling and refining features), more internal memory(but not for playing games), plus all the bells and whistles(rumble, motion sensitive controllers, etc..), for $599. They'll just keep trying to raise the bar, to make their system look better, yet making the people who already bought one feel left out when new hardware is introduced(maybe some sort of internalized wireless PS1/PS2 controller receiver and adapter).

What I'd actually love to see, is for the "master key" in the PS3's BD-ROM drive to be cracked and released, causing Sony and the rest of the BD Conglomerate have to brick the hardware, because the key was decrypted and chipless piracy becomes readily available.

[Ero Elohim]

Sony, please... you did so well with the PS1 and PS2. What's making you do this crap?

Whoa, leave the PS2 out of a post that comes dangerously close to claiming that Sony hasn't always spewed bullshit. I'll admit that they were decent in the PS1 days. The PS2 however, was so much false information and hype that you can't possibly be forgetting it:

Remember the "Emotion Engine" that would allow for individual emotional responses crafted for AI characters on the fly? Smells like "Blast Processing" to me.

Remember the FF8 ballroom CGI in real time? Yeah, took Sony 2 years to fess up to that one.

Remember "the PS2 will be powerful enough to render 'Toy Story' in real time"? Not even close, Sony.

Remember when they threw up charts that compared the PS2's wireframe, no-effects full poly count to the Gamecube's all-effects on full poly count, attempting to make the Gamecube look like a far inferior technical machine?

For my purposes, at least, the PS2 was the beginning of the bullshit era and one of the reasons I strongly dislike the company. That they continue it long into the failings of the PS3 is a bad sign and projects an image of a poorly run business.

[The Damned]

Actually, I was talking about market success, but you make a good point.

I find it interesting how Nintendo went from new guy to champ to second place to last place and then first place (NES to Wii) in 23 or so years, but Sony went from new guy to champ to industry pariah in only twelve years.

That's just amazing. To see any company go downhill so fast after such success is just fascinating.

And don't just start thinking "uh oh, Nintendo fanboy", because I'm not. I loved the PS1 for it's huge library of RPGs, and I've played my share of X-Box titles. I actually think Sony spurred the current success of Nintendo by beating them down enough to force Nintendo to start acting smarter. Competition, in this case, really did make things better for us customers. We got two new systems (Wii and DS) that work out great, and we see the revitalization of an old company that most of us grew up on.

[Ero Elohim]

Actually, I was talking about market success, but you make a good point.

I find it interesting how Nintendo went from new guy to champ to second place to last place and then first place (NES to Wii) in 23 or so years, but Sony went from new guy to champ to industry pariah in only twelve years.

That's just amazing. To see any company go downhill so fast after such success is just fascinating.

And don't just start thinking "uh oh, Nintendo fanboy", because I'm not. I loved the PS1 for it's huge library of RPGs, and I've played my share of X-Box titles. I actually think Sony spurred the current success of Nintendo by beating them down enough to force Nintendo to start acting smarter. Competition, in this case, really did make things better for us customers. We got two new systems (Wii and DS) that work out great, and we see the revitalization of an old company that most of us grew up on.

I used to be a Nintendo fanboy, but lately I've been pretty ho-hum on all three next-gen offerings.

The PS3 is the "god in a box" without a parish to preach to. Hell, it doesn't even have a bible to work with. I.E. It has no games and no coherent following. Sony expected to throw it out and be praised for allowing us to buy their product.

The Wii is a conceptually brilliant idea, one that I can come up with a dozen or so ideas that would be amazing games in their own right.** However, it seems like all the industry wants to do with it is make it into a collection of bad PS2 ports and minigames.

(**Aside: As an example, one idea I had was getting Capcom to revitalize the Megaman series into a high-speed, action side-scroller, using the Wii-mote's pointing features to control an on screen crosshair allowing Megaman to shoot in full 360 while remaining completely mobile. The game would mostly center around high-energy stages, involving deft platforming and frequent hazards like spike pits and lava, combined with large amounts of mobile, hunter-killer-like enemies who would pursue you around the screen, requiring fast reflexes and good aim to shoot down timely enough that you won't be hampered in your platforming. The thought of something like this being possible while games like Bionicle Heroes are created instead make me loathe developers.)

The 360 is the only one I currently own and, honestly, I rarely play it. Most of the games feel like they would've worked better as PC titles, I have no use for the multimedia features, and the game selection itself is far to reliant on the Church of the Shooter. Microsoft hasn't proven itself quite as dirty as Sony, yet, but they're also beginning to slide that way.

All in all, I'm starting to agree with the people who said this console generation feels rushed. I'm still playing older PC titles and PS2 games.

[dsx100]

I find it interesting how Nintendo went from new guy to champ to second place to last place and then first place (NES to Wii) in 23 or so years, but Sony went from new guy to champ to industry pariah in only twelve years.

Actually, the SNES came in first place overall (Thanks to continued support similar to what sony did with psone and is doing with PS2) and the Dreamcast actually came in last place last gen. So Nintendo actually hasn't been ever been last place. Also the Gamecube is actually considered a pretty big sucess for Nintendo because they made a lot profit of it, more than the Xbox, and a little less than the PS2.

Sony might be the first company to come in first 3 years straight if they keep this stuff up. 499.99 for a Blu-ray player that doubles as a console isn't bad at all. This news of an 80GB system is also pretty interesting considering they are bundling a game with the console, and considering sony once mocked MS for releasing the elite claiming they "cheating out their loyal fanbase by releasing a superior system so long after launch".

[Neo Samus]

Actually, the SNES came in first place overall (Thanks to continued support similar to what sony did with psone and is doing with PS2) and the Dreamcast actually came in last place last gen. So Nintendo actually hasn't been ever been last place. Also the Gamecube is actually considered a pretty big sucess for Nintendo because they made a lot profit of it, more than the Xbox, and a little less than the PS2.

Sony might be the first company to come in first 3 years straight if they keep this stuff up. 499.99 for a Blu-ray player that doubles as a console isn't bad at all. This news of an 80GB system is also pretty interesting considering they are bundling a game with the console, and considering sony once mocked MS for releasing the elite claiming they "cheating out their loyal fanbase by releasing a superior system so long after launch".

The thing is, most consumers either a) don't konw what Blu-ray is or b)don't give a damn about blu-ray. I'm not really impressed with either format to be honest. Persoanlly it seems like Sony is trying to shove Blu-ray down everyone's throats.

[SilverStar]

All in all, I'm starting to agree with the people who said this console generation feels rushed. I'm still playing older PC titles and PS2 games.

I think about the same way, now. PS3 was developed without a lot of really compelling content. It was meant to be -the- powerhouse, to destroy everyone else.. instead, a lot of side-by-side comparisons are giving the nod to Microsoft.

X360 was rushed. The hardware wasn't fully tested, and the return rate of up to 30% reflects this. Microsoft has taken huge losses just in the first year, because as many as a third of their total units shipped, have been used as replacements. They have a bunch of games that look interesting.. but only until you get sick of the genre.

Which is a lot like Nintendo. The Wii? Sure, it's revolutionary. It reinvisions the entire way games are played. In theory. Instead, all we've been treated to are PS2 ports, minigames, and games that were retooled from Gamecube. I've spent more time playing old Gamecube games I've been able to buy cheap, than playing the near unending stream of Wii rentals I've been getting from my Canflix account.

At the rate things are going, with overpowered, cost-heavy hardware being relatively slow to get its legs, and the 20M+ investment required to make games for the hardware, we might see a shift toward the more older styles of games, where it isn't all about super high production values.

But at the same time, Nintendo may be selling like crazy.. but for established base, the people who have been around actually buying the hardware, the people who waited in line to get the system on launch.. there's just not a lot there to chew on. It's all potato chips and bubble gum, with the first real steak dinner being Metroid Prime 3.

Even the one thing that has been a definite in the game industry for so long, being that Nintendo software would outsell everything else because it's just -fun- to play.. is falling apart. A lot of the games that I've tried, haven't been able to hold my attention past what would be a demo phase, because they're just too damn boring.

I hope we're not looking at another crash.. as much as it would do the industry good, able to bring it back to the roots where there's actual, real competition in the hardware sector, instead of 3 giants fighting for control. But in the mean time, I have PC games to enjoy. Overlord is pretty cool.

[Hector]

Wasn't the original crash caused by too much hardware competition? Pure competetion via a plethora of businesses would ruin the console+media genre and herald a depressing age of plug&play dominance.

The simple fact of the gaming business is that the more competition there is in the hardware sector, the less competition there is in the software sector and vice-versa. To give an example using some hyperbole, an inferior platformer can compete with mario by staying off a Nintendo console; a Japanese RPG may compete with Square by avoiding the Playstation; and an FPS may compete with Halo by avoiding the X-Box.

What we have now for hardware is perhaps the ideal situation (sorry sega-fans). There is enough hardware competition to avoid the sort of complacent behavior we once saw from Atari, Nintendo and Sony each in turn, but not so much as to severely limit software competition.

In the end, choosing between hardware and software competetion, I'd have to choose software in most cases. The exception being there should always be 3 competitors (though who they may be is welcome to change).

[eternal Zero]

Blu-ray is ahead of its time if it'll ever have a time. I'm not completely sold on the idea, and I think that Sony was too hasty to force it upon their consumers. There just isn't enough of a wow factor tog et people to buy PS3s. The Wii has the Wiimote and the current easy-access games along with the impending powerhouses of full-blown games designed specifically for the Wii. The 360 has got games backing it even though recently it hasn't been doing so well. I don't think that the PS3 will recover much except for the few exclusives that it will have that will force loyal fans of those series to play the game no matter what. Nintendo is just waiting on the big players to enter the arena: SSBB and MP3. The 360 surely has something going on soon...what was it called? Oh yea: Halo 3.

[Bigfoot]

Wow, so with the new model you'll only get a 20gig upgrade, an ok game, and a new PS3 model that will be even less compatible with your PS1/PS2 games(basically, like the Euro version).

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/09/80gb-ps3-has-limited-backwards-compatibility/

[The Coop]

Wasn't the original crash caused by too much hardware competition? Pure competetion via a plethora of businesses would ruin the console+media genre and herald a depressing age of plug&play dominance.

That was only part of it. There were quite a few systems around in the early 80s, but the crash also came about from an extreme lack of software quality control on the part of the console makers. Piss poor games, and horrid games that got way over-hyped, just turned people off... as did the supposedly "superior" consoles people bought into that got no real backing (thus very small game libraries... like Vectrex and the 5200). So, the crash came about.

[dsx100]

Wow, so with the new model you'll only get a 20gig upgrade, an ok game, and a new PS3 model that will be even less compatible with your PS1/PS2 games(basically, like the Euro version).

http://www.joystiq.com/2007/07/09/80gb-ps3-has-limited-backwards-compatibility/

Does this mean that the 60 GB models still have the emotion engine and may possibly continue to have it? I never planed on getting the 80GB one anyway so I really hope the 60 GB models still have that backwards compatibility.

[Drack]

Does this mean that the 60 GB models still have the emotion engine and may possibly continue to have it? I never planed on getting the 80GB one anyway so I really hope the 60 GB models still have that backwards compatibility.

Probably not. I'm guessing you'll have to turn to eBay to get PS3s that aren't emotionless.

However, check this out: Even lighter PS2 in the works:

http://www.destructoid.com/the-mighty-ps2-continues-to-trim-down-after-all-this-time-34616.phtml

[Blake]

Oh boy. I just don't understand what's going on. Does the emotion engine substantially affect backwards compatibility like people are cracking it up to?

Oh lawd: