OCR04340 - *YES* Chrono Cross "Vision of Hades"

[Rexy]

RebeccaETripp
Rebecca Tripp

http://www.crystalechosound.com/
ID: 48262
Game(s): Chrono Cross
Song Title: Vision of Hades

Songs Remixed: Isle of the Damned/Poison Pond
 

[prophetik music]

only 1.5db headroom, but there's about ten seconds of silence at the end of the track for some reason.

some interesting orchestral percussion up front, but a lot of machine-gun attacks initially in the low acoustic guitar (?) and tabla. there's some new backgrounds and textures going on, and some are pretty cool. interesting choice switching it to be entirely tonal and not really working at all with untuned pitched stuff like what's in the original. as a whole this is pretty similar in form to the original. the background arp and melody are notably exactly the same. i liked the choir that swelled up around 1:15-1:25ish, but really thought that the exposed guitar/tabla part at 1:33 showcased one of my biggest issues with the track - there's not much verb on specific instruments, which makes everything sound much less realistic and exposes the machine-gun nature of the samples. it's too bad because their interplay is real fun.

after that transition around 1:45, there's essentially a repeat with some more variation in the melody but similar backgrounds. the organ taking center stage is a real nice touch, hearkening to the rest of the sound track. the ending focuses on that same low acoustic guitar.

overall i'm a bit torn on this one. i don't think the acoustic guitar or tabla that play throughout sound good at all. the rest of the setting is really nice though! the arrangement is pretty straightforward, with the timestamps matching up very closely to repeat points in the original track. there's a lot of interesting timbral arrangement in here, though, and while there's not a lot of changes and updates to the melody line and countermelodies they are there. it's an appropriate final volume and the mastering is fine. there's some fun touches of sfx in there as well that add some extra flavor.

i think this does get over the bar, but i'd consider it to be a closer one than others recently from rebecca. i do really enjoy the use of voices throughout, and there's some fun moments. in future submissions i'd encourage you to be more careful with the uncanny-valley attacks you're getting due to all of the notes being in similar ranges and velocities. either way i'm calling this a conditional on removing the silence left at the end.

 

 

YES (conditional on removing end silence)

[Liontamer]

The arrangement was conservative yet personalized, so I'm OK with that. But a lot of smaller realism issues made this a tougher sell for me.

The sampled vox really got exposed (e.g. the note changes from 1:12-1:20), and I felt the instruments were more in uncanny valley in this piece, so proph was on the mark with his reservations; guitar, tabla, vox, organ, all of those parts stuck out at one point or another.

Some more TLC on the sample articulations and this is solid. If it passes, I won't be mad, but I'm constantly noticing a lot more smaller detail work not being there. Hope to see this posted in some form!

No worries on the extra silence at the end, we can always remove that.

NO (resubmit)

[Jivemaster]

The opening had vibes similar to the original, but things started to go into more original territory pretty quickly. Solid choice of instruments here, the choir portions in particular added some nice backing atmosphere. There were some points where parts stuck out, usually when layers were peeled back (the guitar in particular sounded a little robotic in places) but was otherwise I was ok with the performances. Production here was decent enough, good separation and volume balance. More could certainly be done to strengthen the performances — and I’m happy for these to be updated as needed, however, I’m ok with things as is.

YES 

[Rexy]

Like with a lot of your arrangements, the interpretation is a tale of two halves.  You have a straight-forward run at the beginning, then during the second half, you added original flute writing and went on to blend phrases from different parts of the source together, all before closing on one final run on the slow-string C section.  Along with the textural developments in the background, everything adds up to a well-personalized orchestration.

Now, the production side left me torn.  Firstly, you have an intriguing mix that has more of an emphasis on low-mid-to-mid EQ than there is high, and with your notation being in a similar mid-pitch range, you've hardly utilized it.  Brad's comment about the stagnant articulations and minimal percussion on your percussion and plucked strings gave me a suggestion - increase the reverb across both instruments, while also putting a high-pass on the effect to let the attacks feel more natural.  Even on the legato-based parts (namely the bassoon and voice patches), the lack of release and volume shaping exposed their flaws.

Don't get me wrong- the orchestration and personalization are great.  But when a handful of essential instruments feel robotic, it adds up to a tough sell and a plea to further develop the overall articulations.  I hope you'll get the chance to revise it.

NO (resubmit)

[Chimpazilla]

I like this mix a lot.  It is quite conservative, but does have enough personalization to set it apart from the source tune.  I agree with Larry about the fake sounding articulations, especially at 1:12 as he mentioned.  I hope you will take these criticisms to heart for future mixes, but I don't think these issues are enough to hold this lovely piece back.  The mastering is still quiet and conservative, but it's getting closer to what I would look for in a piece like this.

YES

[DragonAvenger]

I'm in the same boat as Larry here, arrangement has some small personalization that makes it nice, but the overall samples/realism really hits it hard. I think this one needs another pass before it's ready.

No (resubmit)

[Emunator]

I've wavered back and forth on this one, but I think I ultimately tip on the side of the nays here on the basis of articulation realism, primarily. It's especially noticeable since you have articulations like the panflute that are actually tremendously expressive, and it actually serves as a reminder of how rigidly-sequenced the more omnipresent instrumentation (bass, low winds, vocals, for example) is. 

Close call for me; while you didn't go terribly far off the beaten path, I do think there's enough going on in the arrangement to pass on that front, but the sequencing feels more like a draft than a final, polished product. 

NO (resubmit)

Edited January 31, 2021 by Emunator

[MindWanderer]

Let me preface this by saying that I haven't done any judging in over a year at this point.  But given that break: damn, y'all are harsh.  The good instruments are really, really good.  The worse ones?  They're not great, but they're fine.  They won't pass for real if you're paying attention, but they aren't hard to listen to and enjoy.  If this is a NO, I think maybe our standards have crept up a bit much.

YES

[djpretzel]

I'd like to see Rebecca experience with adding some swing/groove to her sequencing, as this could have benefited from a smidge. Rebecca submits a ton of fantastic work, but it's still important that we evaluate each mix in isolation. If this were from another/new artist, I think the vote may have been less critical, but who can say... at any rate, yes it's conservative, and the samples are a mixed bag, AND I think more humanization would have improved the overall piece while also distinguishing it more from the original.... but even after all that, feels solidly above the bar, to me.

YES

[DarkSim]

When evaluating a track, I usually listen to the mix once through first, before going in a second time and writing down quick notes as the track plays. After a few listens, I’ll take a listen to the source and hopefully hear a big improvement. My notes for this one said things like “Nice atmosphere, cohesive sound. Instrumentation good throughout. Bassoon, flute, harp and bell arp all work together. Acoustic bass and ethnic drums interesting backing”. I was a little disappointed to find out that when I listened to the source, the instrumentation was copied straight over. There’s even a little more detail in the bass in the source, with some very cool pitchbends/hammer-ons/pull-offs that I would have loved to hear translated into the ReMix in some way. It’s a real shame they’ve been omitted, as they would have helped establish more of the groove that DJP was looking for, as well as being points of interest.

A common issue I have with your submissions is the spacial quality of the instruments - they often feel like they’re not playing in the same space. This can be sorted with attention to detail in the reverb on individual tracks. Rexy makes a great observation and has good advice about using a high-pass reverb on the higher-frequency instruments. Funnily enough, I’d slapped this track into Ableton and done that myself whilst listening, to see if it would help - and it does somewhat. It’s much easier to do this on the individual tracks than on the master, though.

Other small nitpicks are that water SFX that sounds like it’s being poured directly into my brain (needs better spacing), and the rather quick attack on the vocal pad at 1:18 - similar to critique on your other tracks I’ve had in the past. Try blending the notes together for a more natural sound.

I’m on the fence about this one, really. The embellishment of the source is conservatively yet tastefully done, and it’s very atmospheric, certainly evoking an underground journey near water. What I can’t help thinking is that you’ve sort of arrived here by accident, after borrowing the majority of the instrumentation from the source. These instruments work well together, and so it naturally sounds decent, despite the lack of polish on the overall track. That’s not necessarily a bad thing - choosing instrumentation wisely can often save you a lot of trouble mixing - but when they’re already present in the source, I would expect a bit more care to make the performances stand out. Removing the detail from the bass is one such example. It still sounds good, but there’s much more room to get creative with it.

DJP notes that we should judge ReMixes in isolation, however I feel like the last few submissions I’ve evaluated from you have had the same flaws in them. Your productivity is admirable, but if you could iron out some common mistakes, then higher-quality production would become second nature, and you’d smash the bar with every submission! Of course, a lot of time has passed since you submitted these, so I’m sure you’ve already improved loads since then, and I look forward to hearing more!

YES

[Gario]

Strange, I've had trouble clicking with the source on this one every time I approached it in the panel, then after I play through the Chrono Cross remaster the source just clicks with me. Funny how that works.

Anyway, I think the opening of this arrangement is an excellent example of "Less is More": it's open, airy, and personalizes the arrangement by removing elements of a source rather than adding them. It gives room for a few subtle yet tasty harmonization changes that add a lot of flavor to the track that would've gone unnoticed otherwise (I hear that bit of mixture at 0:49, very tasty). It is otherwise orchestrated well, and though the arrangement becomes more conservative as it proceeds that doesn't take away the personal touch that it was given at the outset.

The sample usage is alright, but some more effort could've been put into giving it more body with consistent sounding reverb across the instruments and some less stilted samples. The vox and organ are the biggest offenders here of sounding dry compared to everything else, as well as being stiff. Most other instruments are at an acceptable level of realism, so these items really do stand out in the arrangement. You do great work, Rebecca, so we know even in 2020 you're capable of better in these departments.

I agree with DjP on this, though: don't judge a remix based on past experience with an artist and evaluate it on it's own merits, and this is certainly above the bar. While conservative, it does a good job bringing out what made this track special by trimming the fat of the original, so to say, and brings the elements back together for a nice, comfortable listen. I dig it, let's post it.

YES

Edited May 14, 2022 by Gario