*NO* Secret of Mana "Hair in the Wind"

[Rexy]

Artist name: Magnetic Ether
My name: Karlyn Singh
Email address: 
Userid: 22769

Name of game arranged: Secret of Mana
Name of arrangement: Hair in the Wind
Name of individual songs arranged: The Dark Star, Prophecy

 

 

This was originally a submssion to MindWanderer’s “ReMixing with the Stars” competition on the forums way back in 2013. It only took me the better part of a decade to finish and record it!

The arrangement was strongly influenced by the folk metal band Eluveitie and features tin whistle and melodica in addition to standard metal instrumentation. Is this the first folk metal track to feature melodica? Maybe*! We work with what we have, right? Honestly I’m glad that these were the instruments I had access to because they work together surprisingly well in this context.

Overall the arrangement is relatively unchanged from its 2013 form. The biggest differences here include live instrumentation and some polishing of the drum arrangement.

Source usage should be pretty obvious. I took some liberties with Prophecy’s main melody but I think it’s still plenty recognizable in this form. The Dark Star melody is also transformed quite a bit as I essentially turned it into a fast Celtic reel. Ultimately the arrangement leans a little more on Prophecy because the second half of the Dark Star source did not lend itself well to what I wanted to do. Oh and there are a few quotes from Fear of the Heavens in the middle because I can’t stop myself!

The drums are death metal as fuck and one of my personal favourite things about this track. Sure it’s not really a death metal track overall but imo the drums give it the extra boost of flavour and energy that it needs and help it to sound pretty unique.

All in all I’d say this track is pretty weird but I really like it, even 7 years after it was written.

*probably not

 

 

[Emunator]

First off, thank you for introducing me to Eluveitie - they kicks ass, and your track is an excellent homage to their brand of Celtic metal mixed with some heavier death metal elements. This arrangement wastes no time getting to the point and stays in high gear pretty much the whole time. It was jarring at first, but the more time I spent with this arrangement, the more appropriate it felt. This is brash and unrelenting and definitely risky, but it actually works out fantastically in my opinion thanks to some incredible performances and excellent adaptations of the two source melodies. This is a bold statement that sounds unlike anything I've ever heard on OCR before. 

I initially had some reservations about the mixing on the track - my initial impression was that it was mixed too hot, and I actually A/B compared this to an Eluveitie track (Ategnatos was the one I went with) to get a feel for what was an appropriate frequency balance and loudness level for this genre. The comparison actually checks out! Your mix balance does skew towards the high frequencies, which contributes to some ear fatigue on repeat listens, and there are definitely some resonant frequencies that spike caused by the tin whistle. It would be nice to have those tamed just a hair, but overall none of the issues are a dealbreaker for me.

Curious to hear how other judges react to this, good luck with the rest of the vote!

YES

[Jivemaster]

Interesting take on the originals. The guitar is done well. Early in, I’m a bit confused by that brass/accordion-like sound occupying the left channel, compared to the rest of the soundscape, it’s often drowned out and doesn’t serve much purpose. The mixing is otherwise ok. The drums feel quite rigid, with not much in the way of variance in velocity and tone, which sticks out more due to the mix of real instruments among the samples, it would be good to humanise this a bit. Arrangement wise, while there are breaks, things keep a fairly similar feel throughout, some more changes over time would’ve been appreciated. I think the ideas here are good, but I think there is some refinement to be had. Let’s see where the others take this.

NO

[prophetik music]

the initial presentation of Dark Star is great and features some pretty flashy whistle work. the melodica doesn't have a great tone, but it's a melodica, so whatever =) i do think the whistle's real heavy in the right ear, enough that it's tiresome after a little bit and also starts to undermine the power of the drums. the guitars are playing some fairly boring stuff but it's doable. there's not much bass that i can hear in terms of presence, and the drums are pretty repetitive. i like the adaptation of Prophecy, it's easily recognizable and well-played. it is a great break when it comes in.

the breakdown at 2:30 is a great break that is well-needed by that point. you did a nice job with the whistle in the lower registers there. the new guitar rhythm/chugs here are also nice since they're a new thing we haven't heard much of at that point. the new pattern at 3:10 also from Prophecy is great and a fun adaptation. great job on the melodica parts there as well. drums had a little bit of a machine-gun effect on their attacks in the fill into the final section. the ending isn't unexpected but the whistle loses just an instant of time there and it sounds a bit weird as a result.

overall this is pretty fun to listen to! i think the mastering isn't perfect but it's successful at featuring some very disparate instrumentation in a way that makes sense. i think the whistle's too loud, and ima conditional it based on that. i liked the arrangement although i wouldn't have minded a bit more attention to the drums, especially with fills when you weren't doing blastbeat or something that precludes that.

 

 

YES (conditional on lowering volume of whistle in right ear)

[Chimpazilla]

Oh do you mean this whistle?

Yeah that's pretty piercy!  And this mix is a waveform is a sausage, clocking in at -6.2db RMS which is in EDM range.  It's a loud mix.  The instrument that comes in at 0:20 and again at 0:46 (is than an accordion?) is so rigid and fake, and it is totally exposed in the short breakdown at 0:57, oof.  I do like the arrangement generally, and this mix is full of energy.  I think my problem with this mix is the same as Joel's, and that is that it gets into one gear and stays there the entire time (with 2 second breaks) and at full-speed like this, it is exhausting.  I don't think there are enough unique ideas presented to warrant the length of the track.  The lower energy section at 2:30 is welcomed but takes too long to get to it, and goes quickly back to full-speed-ahead mode.  This one's not quite there for me.

NO

Edited October 25, 2020 by Chimpazilla

[DragonAvenger]

This one is definitely close for me. Overall this is a unique take on the two tracks, and the style works really well for both, and it's a fun listen. The changes you made to the melodies also work really well without straying too far from the original. I do agree that the track overall has a lot of loudness and mainly sits in the high end, which can be fatiguing on the ears, especially with multiple listens. Along with that, when the bass is more up front, I don't think it really cuts through the way it should. All that being said, I think the arrangement really makes up for it and more, and I'm good to go for this one.

YES

[Rexy]

I've been going back and forth on this one for the past few weeks - and that's because when the track works, it really shows.  The arrangement opens with Dark Star's A section melody on top of Prophecy's A section chord section, then goes through Prophecy straight following that, time signature swap and all.  It then follows on with going back to the intermingling idea, back to Prophecy's A section at 2:06, an original tin whistle/melodica solo section at 2:32 that eventually adds that neat "Angel's Fear" cameo, the return to Prophecy's B section and a close-out with the intro's intermingling idea.  So on paper, you've got a satisfying structure to go through from start to finish.

Yet, the more I listened to it, the more unsure I felt over some of these repeated ideas.  The first sign of it pops up with the 0:20 section appearing again at 1:26, but luckily the drum writing between the two variations is entirely different, and we can't go wrong with blast beats.  However, 2:06 completely re-treaded the same section at 1:01, as did 3:10 repeating 0:39 but with a modified fill at the end, plus 3:31 also repeating 1:01 but with a modified blast beat finisher.  That's over a minute of straight-up recycling, and a second-half like this one could've benefitted more from any different kind of backing changes to make them stand out from what happened before.  The drum fills are a start, but even just changing the bass and rhythm guitars' rhythms can make a huge difference, and what you did before with the drum variance for 0:20 and 1:26 can also apply there.

Now, the mixdown is an interesting case.  It's on the bright side, but nothing's competing with another part, which is impressive considering your folk-based additions here.  It's also clear you wanted to push for an audio direction similar to Eluveitie as Wes brought up - but the tin whistle is going for dominance above all the other instruments.  I can understand why this is the case as a lead instrument, but the signal is too high, and it shows both on listening and on visualizers as well.  Kris did a great job with the screengrab and showing how it pokes out of the mix, so any way to tame it and keep it in line - whether it be a re-EQ or a doubling up with another part - could help out here.  I'm also not a fan of the melodica's tone, but it's one of those instruments you can't express naturally anyway, and it's got a modest amount of flange to make it sound the best it can in the mix.

Ultimately, the tin whistle's peaks are problematic on the presentation side, while minimal variation is an issue for the arrangement.  I don't think this is ready for the front page yet, but it is a cool idea that I hope you still have the project file around.  If you do, it'll be great to hear a version that sits the whistle better in the mix and distinguishes the repeat sections in the second half.  Good luck with the rest of the vote!

NO (resubmit)

[Liontamer]

Truly bizarre mixing here. The arrangement and performance are fine, but the panning's obviously too wide, so this frankly sounds like mud when listening on headphones; everything either sounds hard-panned to one side or distant (except for the winds) despite the power and intensity here. I agreed on the wind instrument being too piercing as well. Address all that, and let's see if a properly panned/mixed version sounds solid. Karlyn always comes through with the goods, so I'm confident she can address this.

Actually going to go NO (resubmit) on it instead of YES (conditional), because we can't just guarantee that a revision would be properly mixed or need other major production revisions. But hell, maybe the rendering just had a mistake and this is a straightforward fix. Send it on back, and let's get this posted in some form!

[MindWanderer]

I'm more in agreement with LT and Rexy on this one.

The melodica in particular is really muddy against the guitars and bass, to the point that I had a hard time telling what it was until it got a solo.  The whistle cuts through the mud, but that's because it cuts like a knife.  If you listen closely to Eluveitie, especially when their own whistle is playing, you can tell that there's some very surgical, dynamic EQ going on.  Their guitars and cymbals are cut to make room for the whistle, dulcimer, and vocals, when those instruments are playing.  Your cymbals especially are really bright in comparison.

The comments about repetitiveness and flow are on point for me as well.  There are some parts that change things up, but they're brief and don't do enough to keep this from wearing out its 4-minute length.

No concerns about source usage at all, despite your misgivings, and the interpretation is delightful.  I do like the brief original content.  I'd love to have a revision of this, but this one for me is a

NO (resubmit)

[Gario]

Pretty much in agreement with Rexy and Liontamer that this track is smashed to heck - we miss a lot of subtle elements (like that sax at 1:26 - can barely hear that poor guy! EDIT: Ain't even a sax; that's how smashed it is, I guess - can't tell what the instrument is!). Gotta tone down those levels at least a bit, put a little low pass to decrease them upper partials to give you some more breathing room, etc. It's a great arrangement, but the mastering needs some work as it's just too smashed, atm.

I agree that the whistle is piercing, but be careful to not get it lost in the mix all the while (sine waves and the like are really difficult to get to come through in an arrangement - believe me, I know!). One suggestion is rather than increasing the levels to where it stands out to put on some delay and/or chorus, just to increase the breadth of the spectrum that it takes up. Making the sound wider and not louder will help the instrument stand out without piercing through both the arrangement and the listeners ears.

Great stuff otherwise, but like Liontamer said mastering issues aren't something small that can be a guarantee fix in a few minutes so I've got to land on the NO side of this. Looking forward to the finished mix, though!

NO

Edited December 7, 2021 by Gario

[DarkSim]

FIrst off, what a great choice of genre, and thanks for introducing me to Eluveitie. Folk-metal is a new one on me and it works really well.
The arrangement of 3 sources here is very well implemented, and each one has its chance to shine whilst still being part of a logical progression to the finish. From the beginning to 0:47 we get Dark Star, then a nice transition into the main reel of Prophecy at 1:02-1:25. Listening to the Prophecy source, I’d hazard a guess that this kind of reel on the penny whistle was exactly what the composer had in mind initially, within their 16-bit constraints. At 2:50 we get the third source, Fear of the Heavens, before jumping back into Prophecy for one final hurrah. Plenty of source usage, original arrangement, no problems on that end from me.

The instrument performances are also commendable, especially at the tempo of the song - the energy shines through the performance, and folk music relies on energy, feel and emotion, which is obviously most palpable in a live performance. The drums aren’t played live, which usually wouldn’t be a problem, however I do feel like the sample quality lets the excellent sequencing down somewhat, and there are sections like 1:46-2:05 where the 1/8th snare hits sound like a machine gun because each note is hitting with the same velocity. Subtle variations in velocity and layering of samples can help to avoid things like this. Rhythm guitar sounds chunky and is panned well, also the bass sounds pretty clean and isn’t fighting with anything in the low-end.

Unfortunately, what really lets this track down is the overall mixing. Right off the bat, the penny whistle sounds like it’s sitting on top of the mix, out there and exposed on its own. This lends it an almost shrill quality which I found too distracting. I love your use of layering during the reel at 1:02-1:25, however the melodica is a little low in the mix, so the whistle is standing out too much again. The layered flute/whistle combo from 2:31-2:50 is really well done though - I think those instruments have a natural affinity for each other. Comparing that section with the following one from 2:50-3:09, I think the melodica could stand to be an octave lower, and that would serve to anchor the whistle a lot better.

I’d say that this ReMix is almost there - my advice would be to listen very critically to Eluveitie’s tracks with penny whistle in them. Particularly the solo in Call of the Mountains, and their slower track Isara. Pay attention to the layering, effects, and overall volume of the whistle and how it fits into the track as a whole. You’ve got the right idea already, it’s just the execution that is wide of the mark so far. Sort out the penny whistle and melodica, give the drums some extra TLC, and I hope to hear this one again!

NO (resub)

[XPRTNovice]

I love this arrangement and it is so close, but I think that there are some production elements that could be improved to really make it shine. What I really want to hear is more of the low end throughout, particularly the kick drum and the bass guitar (I’m talking like 80-100hz). Reference mixing with some Dropkick Murphy’s or something like that - or even the band you reference in your submission -  will help you zero in on how a full mix might sound with this instrumentation. Celtic rock is so much fun, but you also have some prog metal elements hear that would benefit from making that kick a little more snappy – try some high-ratio compression on that kick and experiment to your taste, but it definitely needs some more low end.

Arrangement wise, there was only one thing that really bothered me - by 2:01, my ears are getting really fatigued from repetition of the main theme. I think that also has to do with me just not having enough depth in the production, because it was the high-end part of my ears that was tired . When it breaks down at 2:30 ish, I get a nice break and I start to feel interested in the tune again. The piece is long enough to stand on its own; it might actually benefit from simply cutting one of the repeated sections of the main theme in the beginning. Maybe I’m waxing philosophical here, but this happens a lot during Celtic pieces because of the way the flutes/tin whistles have all these mordents that make it seem like every note is the same note because you can never find the center. I love the source and I love the arrangement; it’s really fun, and you can absolutely bring this to passable with just a few tweaks.

Some suggestions to help with both the ear fatigue and the production, which also may help the arrangement sound more complete if the ear isn't tired: I hear the tin whistle off to the right; since the guitars seem to be hardpanned, you could bring the tin whistle to center, especially since it is the main melody. At that point it would require that you bring it down, though, because now it'll be right dead center in your face. The cymbals (crash/splash) are also really crackly and high-end ish and could use some EQ. 

 

NO (resub)

[jordi]

Goodday! This was a welcome and refreshing submission to hear something of this genre, though I feel there is still some work left to be done in order to bring it up to standard. I thought your tin whistle and melodica performance was technically quite strong, although both sound generally flat overall with some odd sharp notes, which does personally distract me (eg. the melodica’s A at 1:50 and 1:59 being too sharp, the whistle’s A being flat at 2:58.) Having played whistles before, I know that it can be particularly hard to either not sound a little a bit off in the context of other instruments, and we are also often at the mercy of our particular whistles, as well as many conditions out of our control. As an aside, I can tell you from my own experience that the Finnish winter and playing whistles outdoors is not a fun combination! The melodica is also one such instrument, especially the lower-budget models, that leaves us at the mercy of their current tuning during performing; all of which have little variations. I’ve often found that a bit of light pitch correction/tuning/melodyne in these instances on the instrument completely solves any unpleasant flatness and sharpness, being careful not to over-pitch correct and finding just the right balance, so as not to detectably flatten the intricacies and magic of a great instrumental performance. It’s such a small thing, but for more pitch-sensitive ears this can have a big impact one way or the other. Sometimes, needs must!

I enjoyed the octaval layering you’ve done, with the combination of melodica and the whistle. On a whole, the guitar and drums sounded pleasant to me with a nice energy and sense of depth. I think the drumming could benefit from some humanisation though! The one thing with the drums that I did pick up on was at 3:55 on the intense hits at the end, the second-to-last hit falters and comes in quite relatively past the beat than the other hits. This causes a sudden and unfortunate unintentional drop in intensity riiight at the finish line, but it’s a pretty easy fix to move a drum hit onto the beat.

Overall, the mix could do with some work to make it more balanced and pleasant on the ears. I wouldn’t mind hearing the melodica stand out a bit more in the mix, as it’s a little on the dark and muddy end ever so slightly; currently it’s loud enough to hear that it’s there, but not really loud enough to be present or make a proper impact. In the same vein, I would like to hear the whistle sit more aptly in the mix as opposed to sounding like it’s stood on top of it. I would revisit the EQ, perhaps reduce the wetness of the reverb or decrease the reverb tail, or try a different reverb. It could be that a bit of light delay would add something to those instruments too, but that’s up to your own judgment!

In summary, this is very nearly there and I think it could be a “yes” from me with just a few tweaks, namely the mixing and slight relative pitchiness of the melodica and whistle, and clean-up at the end on that one drum hit. Another look at the humanisation of the drums to add some variety would be nice, as well as at the production of the track in general. I think you’ve gotten a lot of good advice from the judges so far to help you get this track to where it deserves to be! Even though it took 7 years to get to around to getting this far, I don’t think you’d thank me for withholding any pointers, if it meant unlocking the gloriousness that this track could be (and soon may well be).

NO (resubmit)