Emunator Posted November 25, 2021 Share Posted November 25, 2021 Past decision from 2013 It's been a long time since I submitted this, but here is a resubmit of the remix, I've been trying to mix this better and there are some small changes too, hopefully it is actually good enough now. On Thu, Nov 1, 2012 at 7:02 PM Jari Jouppi wrote: Contact Information Your ReMixer name PsyNES Your real name Jari Jouppi Your email address Your userid (number, not name) on our forums, found by viewing your forum profile http://ocremix.org/forums/member.php?u=20309 Submission Information Name of game(s) arranged Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II / Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game Name of arrangement Roof is on Fire Name of individual song(s) arranged Stage 1 theme / Fire!! Your own comments about the mix, for example the inspiration behind it, how it was made, etc. I saw Byproduct asking @ scenesat IRC channel, if anyone would like to join TMNT2 album project. I asked if I could join, and he said yes. So I listened the OST and I choose stage 1 to remix. In few days I made it already to final versions of the remix and I was happy what I've made. Album version has some clips from TMNT cartoon, you can listen it from my Youtube. I made this with Renoise and used some VST Plugins. Source: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gario Posted November 26, 2021 Share Posted November 26, 2021 Not enough Turtles 2 in here, and glad to hear something solid from a respectable arranger approach it. Seems the big issue with this prior was that the bass was too heavy in the mix which caused the other instruments to get drown out. While I do still some mud in the mix in the upper-mid range (1k-6k), which does have the lead get drown behind everything else from time to time (such as at 0:49), but the effect isn't so extreme as to make it impossible to hear the leads. Just something that could be improved. Not easy to take old arrangements (with different workflows and such) and make everything perfect, so I'll say it seems you've fixed the initial issue just fine, and whatever lingering issues aren't enough to bring it below the bar. The arrangement is spicy, and the production is pretty darn good regardless. Wasn't around for the original judgment, but I think this works for us now. Nice work! YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liontamer Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 I stayed on the panel, 8 1/2 years after the first decision, just to hang on for this resubmission for Jari. I was the sole YES last time around, and dammit, I'mma YES it again! COWABUNGA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindWanderer Posted December 9, 2021 Share Posted December 9, 2021 (edited) TMNT is awesome, and I love this arrangement. Classic techno 'n' chips. However, I'm actually really surprised Larry passed this one. He's usually a stickler for percussion, and the whole drum kit is problematic. It sounds like they've been aggressively filtered into the mid band. The hats and crashes have no high end, the kicks have no low end, and the snares are thin as well. As a result, the whole track lacks punch. That's not the only EQ issue, either. There's one bass synth that goes into the lows a little, but not very much, and it's only even there about half the time. I switched out to my bassiest headphones to be sure, and nope, the low end is lacking even with those. And the highs are weak as well. The whole soundscape sounds thin and flat. It doesn't sound especially "muddy" per se, because the instruments aren't conflicting with each other very much, but it's because they all take up a really narrow spectrum and not because they use the full range of normal human hearing effectively. 2:05-2:20 and 2:32-2:47 are exceptions, though: it really is muddy there, and the parts really need more separation. I don't think it'll take much work to fix this, as I suspect the main issue is too much filtering going on. But right now I don't think this is passable. NO (resubmit) Edited December 9, 2021 by MindWanderer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimpazilla Posted December 27, 2021 Share Posted December 27, 2021 I agree with Gario entirely here. The production isn't perfect, and some elements (mids and mid-highs) do sound muddy and overly fuzzy. But everything is clear to hear, especially the leads, and the creativity in this arrangement are just awesome. Too much goodness not to see this on the front page. Let's go with this one! YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophetik music Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 (edited) some real sausage here. it's very boomy right off the bat, mostly caused by there being what feels like a huge EQ boost in an extremely narrow range - sounds like 80hz, give or take like 20hz. i agree that the drums have some weirdness in them - they're extremely notched in, and it makes them sound more like static than instruments (not unfitting given the chippy feel of the synths, but very unexpected). MW's also right that there's nothing up top and it gets less and less the farther up you go. i checked a freq analysis and the left side is egregious. this should have a bit of a bump on the left side, be mostly flat, and tail off above 15k. the huge boominess i'm hearing on multiple sound systems and headphones is a result of the sub-100hz range being boosted like crazy. it sounds like buckets of mud on the bottom. that said, the arrangement is dope and the lead synth work is great! i love how active the bass is, the variety of synth choices, the constant use of the original's melodic content in various ways - it's great. it's just so boomy. i really do think it's just a specific tight notched EQ that was boosted right there. i can't YES this right now since it'd sound pretty rough on any system with any semblance of bass representation, which stinks because i do love the arrangement a ton. NO Edited January 21, 2022 by prophetik music Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSim Posted January 24, 2022 Share Posted January 24, 2022 There’s a lot to love about this track. The synth choices are great, blending the old with the new perfectly. The 8-bit synths instantly evoke the source, but there’s plenty of fresh instrumentation to distinguish it from a chiptune remix. It’s super high-energy, but there are a few nice short breaks in there to catch one’s breath. My favourite part comes around 1:36 with the tempo slowdown and speed-up, which is a seldom-used arrangement technique, but done with great effect here. Gating effects are also used sparingly so as not to seem overdone (just - any more would be pushing it!) Unfortunately, although I wasn’t privy to the original mix, I’d say this one is still suffering from a major bass overload. Re-plotting it with a log scale, you can see here there’s a huge peak at around 68Hz: Mixes can be bass-heavy if they’re mixed and mastered perfectly. Really though, the bass mix is way off where it should be in sub-100Hz range. It’s so muddy and booming that it detracts from the enjoyment of the rest of the track. At a guess, I’d say your headphones/speaker setup lacks the bass range to properly reproduce what your DAW is spitting out. I would suggest playing this mixdown on as many different setups as you can (stream to your TV/Hi-Fi/play in your car/borrow someone else’s headphones etc). You may be surprised at the results! I know in the past I’ve made a mix I thought was great, then when I played it in my car it sounded horrible. MindWanderer has also touched on the narrow range occupied by the percussion, and I would be inclined to agree. It’s particularly noticeable at 0:49 after a couple of false builds. This is supposed to be the big drop that brings everything in, yet it still sounds both booming and thin at the same time, due to the mixing imbalances. I understand how difficult it can be to go back to tracks almost a decade old (I’ve got a couple myself I just can’t salvage, sadly) and try to bring them up to scratch. This one still needs work on the mixing and mastering side, however you’re golden on all the other fronts. Just one final thing though - if you do decide to give this one more crack (please do!) - it’d be nice if you could extend the fadeout to last a couple of bars, instead of the sharp dropoff that it has now. Cheers! NO (resub) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XPRTNovice Posted January 25, 2022 Share Posted January 25, 2022 Honestly this arrangement is fire. What a cool source tune, and you treat it well. I love the interaction of the synth with the faux-brass, and you spend enough time both on and off the melody to make a relatively short source sound not-repetitive. The slowdown is just delicious, especially when it very unexpectedly goes back into the speedup. Love the little breakdown at 2:20, but after that I feel like we are really missing some bass, because it sounds (to my ear) that you have your bass synth jumping up like 1-2 octaves for the next section all the way to 3:05. I enjoyed it for a second, but after more than a few seconds of listening to it my ear was clearly missing something. I might suggest that you double that bass instrument, because I think the high-octave bassline is very effective, but it needs some support. And the ending is great, I wasn't bothered by the length of it at all. I don't necessarily jive with the production critiques that are being made on the piece; I don't hear boominess in my setup (and I even complained enough about there not being enough). The first second of the piece is a little bass heavy, but since it sweeps out right away with the filter, it didn't really bother me. The only time I felt like the bass was a little much was right before the break/drop at :42, and even then it wasn't that offensive to my ears. Great job! YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emunator Posted May 18, 2022 Author Share Posted May 18, 2022 I remember hearing this in the inbox and immediately picking up on the muddiness/frequency imbalance across the track. I think @DarkSim nailed the critiques on this one and I agree with him at almost every step, even down to the abrupt ending. The 80-100hz range is problematic for sure, especially because there's a notable frequency dropoff right above that from 100hz-200hz, so everything sounds very boomy. The arrangement here is extremely energetic and features exactly the kind of fun synth lines and retro sound design that I've come to love from you. Right now, I'm quite borderline on this because it's hard to reject a track that has this much going for it, but the frequency balance issues were immediately noticeable and I feel this would be a much stronger submission with a little more effort on the mixing side. NO (borderline/resubmit!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexy Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 The arrangement checks out here - a theme, a variation, a change-up with more ominous chords, and a recapitulation. And the best part here is that no individual section sounds the same, thanks to the textural choices throughout. You've got your standard house grooves, your breakbeats, crazy filter sweeps, volume gates - there's a lot in the audio design that grabs the listener's attention. I approve of this. I ended up going over the audio design critiques - and I agree that the whole thing is a sausage, as prophetik mentioned. An analysis of the track in Audacity gave me an RMS that is way too strong to be YouTube-friendly (average of 9), as well as the same plot spectrum that Jack picked up on. I can't entirely agree with the critique of mud or clashing frequencies, but the squish and boom are way too big to ignore outright. Other than that glaring elephant in the room, I love this sub. If there's a way for you to bring the bass levels down during another mixing pass, I'm all for looking back at this one. NO (please resub!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Arrangement and energy is killer. Production is not killer. Other Js have outlined the problems already so I won't rehash. Needs a production pass and then we'll be in business. NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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