Gario

Well I'll enjoy the footage, I guess... At least they can prove that there really was something being done, there (although the C&D debate will continue, no doubt).

That basically sums up my reaction, if that is real.

So Rozo, where do you like sfx? lol... I've said it before and I'll say it again - I really like this song. I believe this was said before, but the highs in the mix are too dominant - it creates a shimmer that muddies that range terribly. Knock the high end down on the mastering a few dbs and you should be good to go, there. The soloing & leads are too quiet throughout the entire song... I really like the ripping and lead work you do here, but it's an element of the background, atm. Bring it out to the forefront of the song please. The drums are a little too dry, as they are. Don't overdo it, but a little more reverb could help bring them out better. By the way, the chiptunes at 2:48 - 2:52 are as pure awesome as anyone can get... period. Don't ever take them out . Yeah, it's great arrangementwise, but the mixing will still hold this back from the ever-elusive 'YES'. Some elements that should be in the front are in the back, the background elements are too far forward, etc... and the mastering is hot, at the moment (the EQ has too many highs - it sounds a little like it's coming from a car radio ). Raise the mids and lower the highs - it'll help the overall sound. Keep it up - I have to admit, your the most interesting WIP poster here, for me. I either love your stuff or hate it; I have no inbetween with your work. That basically guarentees that I'll listen to anything you post here, so good job

Alright - I was just trying to help you a bit. In time you may know what I was talking about (contrapuntally, your right, but I wasn't talking about that ).It's my simple opinion, if I restrict it to this remix, so we'll agree to disagree .

lol, I know - I can't help myself... It's funny that I'm relatively indifferent on what Chessmaster010 does with that (it'll sound fine to me either way); I'm just talking so people on this thread can learn about something new, here. NOPE! I'm afraid your making a common error, there... don't feel bad, most people do when they talk about dissonance - it's what a teacher will tell you in order to keep the subject simple. Technically, 'dissonance' is when two sounds do not use a simple ratio when played simultaneously (an octave's wavelength is 2:1, a fifth is 3:2, a fourth is 4:3, etc...). The problem is that in the music today we don't use those ratios anymore - we now tune to something called 'equal temperament' tuning that is in fact only consonant at the octave.Now, we get sounds that are close to being consonant, but technically we never use perfect consonance when sequencing music, so in reality it's perfectly fine to use sonorities (rather than 'chords') to harmonize our music... hell, we've been doing it for over 100 years, now, so there isn't any reason not to use dissonance (Ives' 'The Unanswered Question' was written in 1905 - believe me, the dissonance in that is incredible, but it's still one of my absolute favorite pieces of all time). Point is, no one in this century really has listened to perfectly 'consonant' music because we've adopted to a system where we don't use those ratios, anymore. You'll need to trust me on this - I've spent enough time studying the subject to know what I'm talking about, in this case . Alright, listen to the Aeris' theme in FF7 (particularly when she dies) - the beginning is completely based off of the sonority CGCDE simultaneously. Perhaps that's a better example than the prelude .By the way, Chessmaster010, update it for us soon! We're dying of anticipation .

I'm in - sign me up, baby!

I know what you mean, there - really, that song I posted originally has a lot of that going on (in fact, it merges the technique of implying reverb with one channel and getting reverb with two channels - allowing them to trick the listener into believing the reverb is still there).I'm reading the rest of the Zelda series that's there (I didn't know there was six pages, lol) and it seems quite inspired, pointing out the threads that keep the game together in clever ways. I noticed some of the roman analysis used that I didn't quite agree with... Personally I try not to analyze music using roman numerals for every verticle harmony created as sometimes it doesn't represent how the music flows. Zelda's theme (harmonized on page 2), in particular, would make more sense if it was set in the key of C throughout (thus, allowing the beginning to start on a tonic) and staying on the tonic harmonically through measure 4 (mm 2 & 4 would actually be a set of neighbor tones rather than an actual change in harmony). The next two measures have non-functional passing chords, so a roman numeral analysis would tell us nothing of what happens there. In fact, the only change in the roman numerals would happen on measure 7 and 8 - mm7 would be an applied dominant to mm8's dominant chord in 6 4 position... meaning it isn't even a cadence, in the proper sense of the word. Funny, even that last measure before the repeat could be interpreted as a very long-scale upper neighbor to the first measure. Damnit, I'd love to give you guys a picture to show you what I'm talking about, but I don't have a scoring program (and bitmap just looks ugly)... it's actually a very Schenkerian way to look at that song, which I'm not sure many people are familiar with... Don't get me wrong, Bruno - I'm nitpicking a very interesting analysis. Overall it was very interesting (enough so for me to do a bit of analysis myself), and I thought the motivic analysis was very awesome. Thanks a bunch for making it - I really appreciate people doing VG analysis out there online! EDIT: I just played it out, and I agree that it's in G... everyone's allowed a moment of stupidity . I'd still analyze it a bit different, though - I'm drawing something up on bitmap, at the moment - have no fear EDIT (again): Alright, here's what I was trying to say... The blue is the melody, the red is the bassline (the strings provide that - it isn't in the score) and the green is an interesting tidbit from the harp (and that extra note is a mistake - ignore it ). I made the important notes hollow and the decorations black with a colored outline. Notice that most of the motion is neighboring decoration or prolongation of a passing motion. I don't hear any harmonic change until the 7th and 8th measure, and even then I consider a 6 3 dominant chord to be a lower neighbor of the tonic, so saying that's functional is even questionable. The bass notes are a series of upper and lower neighbors to G, the green notes actually imply a solid G chord in the beginning due to the preceding note (hence the hollow note in green in parantheses), but because the music starts at the second measure above it's hard to hear that... The green notes are also interesting because of the chromatic passing motion that they create to the dominant chord later (which Dan pointed out nicely ) - the arcing lines show the beginning to the end of the motion clearly. The blue notes dance around the 3rd of the scale (lower neighbors decorate it), then leaps up to the second of the scale (due to octave equivilance, I put it next to the preceding note in paranthesis), where it is decorated by a chordal leap. You see, I don't see any real chord changes throughout the motion - it's all just a big statement of the tonic, in the end. I'll add that none of this detracts from Dan Bruno's main point in any way, so I'm really nitpicking the hell out of it

Sorry, I don't think I'll be able to finish this round... certain obligations got in my way ... I'll vote, though - have no fear!

I never said they sounded pleasant... they are terribly dissonant. If it sounded pleasant through and through, however, it wouldn't have held my interest nearly as much as it did. I like dissonance, if it is used properly (which it isn't here, to be honest) or if it creates a rich texture for the melody to fall on (which it does for this mix, IMHO). The delays may be creating the dissonance, but it perks my interest in the mix. Writing and hearing consonant music is the first step in composing, and I commend you for hearing that some of the music of his isn't consonant. However, based on what type of music you enjoy (I personally am enthralled by late romantic/early modern music), you may develop a certain taste for certain other sonorities (such as the 2nd and 3rd of a minor or major scale being played simultaneously - in fact, it's a sonority that is dominant in the famous Final Fantasy Prelude ). It's cliche, but it is certainly an opinion that I am thrusting forward, here. However, that opinion is formed through my experiences in music - I guarantee you if you listen to the choral music of Eric Whitacre or Morten Lauridson, or listen to the orchestra pieces of Mahler, Stravinsky or Shostakovitch you'd begin to develop a taste for those sonorities, as well. Here, listen to what I did for the ORC119 - delays (actually, it's technically a damper...) create 'clashes' and 'dissonance' all over the place (in fact, one reviewer said he didn't like it, and he's a respectable remixer, here). That was completely intentional on my part, as I like the sonorious sound generated. I don't get on people's cases if they don't like the sound, as that's normal - I just like to present that as a viable way of writing music. I'm not trying to derail the thread, Chessmaster010 - I just want to let you know what I thought the textures in your music here sounded like, to me . BTW, your choice of words were fine, Neblixsaber - there was clashing and I knew what you were talking about... I just liked the clashing . I'm a bit confused on that, though - the delay actually creates the harmony, doesn't it?

Yeah, that basically breaks down what I was trying to say in a nutshell. It's not the J's fault that people don't resub their stuff, it's the composers fault. Don't be hatin' the J's...

Woa! Nice VG Analysis series, there! Irregular meters are seriously the shit (if I write an original song, 50% of the time it's in an odd meter...). Just be careful if your writing for a woodwind quintet - they don't like playing conflicting implied meters simultaniously (I caused a pretty nasty panic at my own Senior composition recital doing that, lol). It's funny that the guy implied that the sun song isn't heard anywhere else in Zelda - OoT; it's how the field map opens up the music when the morning breaks. Wow, that's a pretty sweet setup that guy's got. I'll try to make my analyses a bit more accessible (for those that don't want to learn roman numeral analysis or figured bass techniques...), namely because I don't have a scoring program yet (and I refuse to use Finale notepad ). Someday I'll be kicking ass with Sibelius, again... but I've got to get the finances for that.

Great, now we're arguing about the existence of DJP... I don't know, I personally don't believe in his existence .

Ah, it's nice to see some interest in the subject. I'm planning on putting something new here weekly - doing the Silver Surfer analysis was fun and I've got to brush up on my theory skills . Don't worry, I have no life so I can afford to do stuff like this . The mechanical vocals were pretty interesting there on the 'I can see them All' track. I don't know if it's true for every song with processed vocals, but I felt the lack of motion really contributed to the 'robot' sound (along with the processed vocals, of course). It's a pretty popular technique when you want to add dissonance to choral music in a gentle manner (leave one voice motionless while the rest of the music moves around it) - a personal favorite of mine, by the way. By the way, that Silius soundtrack was pretty sweet... Maybe I'll go into detail about it next I take it the bass is what your talking about (and not the bass drums)? Interesting use of Timbre... I've got to figure out what they did. Congratulations on your paper, AnSo! I hope it's well received (and it gets translated - I'm still interested in what you've got to say ).

Sadness! Oh well, I'd still enjoy watching where a compo of the sort would go (even if I couldn't participate until I broke down and got FL Studio). It would be very interesting to see what came out of it!

Personally, I would like a chamber work dedicated to the theme (like a woodwind quintet, or something)... Again, that's personal, and I didn't base what I said about the music on that (it's still great). Besides, I love the guitar - I just thought the theme needs a more subtle approach to it, in this case. Umm... yeah, that would be interesting, but probably not what I'm looking for, lol.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again - the melody adds an extra beat to the theme at that point, shifting it an additional beat foward while everything else stays in 4/4... it sounded strange before, now that you've added so many cool things to the music it sounds terrible now. The mix is miles ahead of where it was before, though. Other than the rhythm part mentioned before, the biggest problem is that you harmonize the melody in a very... um, avant guarde sort of fashion. I can't really get into what you did with the harmonies and such - there's just too much dissonant clashing between the harmonies and the melodies & counter-melodies, throughout. I don't know what I can suggest to help you with that, sorry for my unhelpfulness... I saw this at R:TS and I noticed the tag for it said 'Metal, Wierd'... I sort of agree with them, there - the harmonizations and such make it sound wierd, for me.

No. Intelligent design is stupid, evolution has been proven, and this site is a result of various useful parts coincidentally coming together over the millenia to form what is known today as Overclocked Remix. You should all know that.Get with the times people, geez...

Cripes, Rami, your right! I never thought of it that way... I'll get something for you today - it's being processed at OCR, atm, but there's no harm at having it at R:TS, as well. Gotta support the music sites out there .

Cripes, such a harmless subject seems to be turning sour fast. Alright, if anyone has anything against people critiquing music even if they don't have anything posted (hell, even if they don't compose themselves) get a grip. Seriously, composing and critiquing are not the same thing, by any stretch of the imagination - don't confuse the two. Being a composer helps critiquing, and critiquing music certainly helps composers with their own processes, but neither is a requirement for the other. Great critics do not need to be composers (and vice versa). Don't judge the judges due to their 'posted music' count - in case you haven't noticed, the quality of OCR has increased substantially over the years and they are the ones to thank for that. The only thing they do is insist that the production hits a standard of excellence so the people don't need to listen to arrangements that sound like they were thrown in a grater. If it's anyone's fault for the supposed 'lack' of imaginative music on the site, it would be the composers. From the current front page, here, it's easy to see that OCR still accepts imaginative, creative music - it's just that they want to make listening to it as easy as possible for the listener. If an experimental, creative music comes up and is rejected due to production quality, do you know what the composer should do? Fix the production of the song! Seriously, good production can only make a piece of music better, not to mention make the composer better (there are very few exceptions to this and I believe the J's take those special scenarios by a case-by-case basis). Alright, I believe the pre-1000 music had it's charm, but I'm grateful for the heightened standards that have been imposed over the years. I don't believe that it's the judges fault that the 'charm' of the past has whittled away - it's the composers fault for not cleaning up their music. Don't be lazy, fix up your production problems; you'll be a better composer in the end. EDIT: Huh, the one I was addressing was banned... for a month. Well, I guess he'll read it later, then .

lol, I wouldn't want to see that, either... ...wait, how would that work, anyway? Remix the remixes of the older project?

Is it? lol, I made something up on the fly - I was hoping it wasn't another game. Wait, is Snake fighting the Vietnamese in Metal Gear? I've never played the series, myself... Oh well, Abadoss, you see what I'm saying, right? You make up a scenario for him, then - I'd probably end up taking an idea from elsewhere, anyway .

I'm getting a bit of deja vu, here... I remember having this discussion with Hoboka a while ago... ...but the way this guy is clashing, even if it wasn't intentional, is actually quite well done as far as sonorous clashing goes. Even during the minor inflections he manages to keep everything relative to the key. I know it isn't perfect here, but clashes are actually quite nice, when well done. I hold that it gives the texture some depth and interest (without it, it would sound plain and boring, to me - it is in fact why I said the textures were good earlier). You gave your view, Neblixsaber, and I gave mine, each according to his own listening experience (or 'opinion', which is what it is, when we come down to it). I'm giving him a different way of looking at the music; I'm not saying either one of us is right or wrong, in this case (it'll sound fine if he takes out the clashes, too - I personally would leave them in, but that's just me). Just letting you know this isn't a 'right or wrong' scenario, guys .

I agree with Abadoss and Ifirit with their comments on the music, but it isn't bad, either... Here's a real test - try making something on-demand for someone. That's actually a more realistic scenario to prove your mettle. For example... Genre - Platformer Setting - The first stage : the military protagonist is trying to infiltrate a Vietnamese camp during Vietnam. It's located in a heavy jungle setting, but it's not about open combat - it's more about trying to infiltrate the camp while attracting as little attention as possible. I've noticed that the two songs you've put up here are more for a medieval JRPG style game. Of course, that's not a bad thing - but I want to see something from a different genre and setting come out of you. Being able to do a variety of genres and styles will make you more flexible and able to take many different jobs that may be available for you... ...and seriously, I want to hear your music for that setting .

*looks over student loans* ... Damnit, I'll concede to that. Yes, without the money it does make the process take longer, that's for sure. I've only got a computer and Reason to work with, at the moment, and I admit it's tough not having everything you need at your disposal. He seems to have the determination for it, though, so I suppose he's on the right path.

Hey, wait a minute - I liked the clashing... it gave it flavor. That's personal preference, though (people tend to say my music clashes, too - but I do it on purpose 'cause I like the sound ) - it comes from writing choral music, I guess... Do what you'd like, though - if you take out the clashes I won't cry (much ).