ASK A JUDGE: While we're busy NOT voting - your questions, we want 'em

[Hausdog]

STOP ASKING THIS QUESTION.

Chill out. Fortunately for Abadoss, I HAVE been keeping track and I gave him the actual average.

[Dhsu]

Why are you typing with proper capitalization and punctuation in this thread, but then:

"look kid dont take this the wrong way but i dont care about mario and halo together so stop being rude and immature k"

...basically typing this holier-than-thou trolling nonsense in another thread. What did I tell you? I'm gonna have to kick your ass later.

Why are you bringing this into a completely unrelated thread? He can punctuate and capitalize if wants?

ReMixes of ReMixes are fine, they're just judged in a tougher manner. Section 6, Part 5 of the standards covers this. That rule is more to discourage ReMixers from submitting mere production upgrades of their older mixes. But we're always open to ReMixing (i.e. substantively interpreting) a previous ReMix or other arrangement as long as there are enough ties to the original game music the existing mix is based off of.

Would analoq's arrangement of Incredible Singing Robot pass if it were submitted here?

[JJT]

Chill out. Fortunately for Abadoss, I HAVE been keeping track and I gave him the actual average.

Bully for you.

[Liontamer]

1 year, 9 months, 5 days, 17 hours and 22 minutes.

*SMACK*

Why are you bringing this into a completely unrelated thread? He can punctuate and capitalize if wants?

I'm a mod. I can off-top ANYTHING I WANT. In all seriousness, I just think it's a double standard how he interacts with people he perceives as higher than him on the food chain, but for the purposes of trolling a n00b, he switches to off-putting, lazy internet speak.

Would analoq's arrangement of Incredible Singing Robot pass if it were submitted here?

As is, no in my opinion. If the drums weren't on auto-pilot, the track would feel a lot more cohesive. The point of it seemed to just be a quick mix though, so on that level I wouldn't change a thing. The style/presentation seems different enough to me, but that would be up to the panel at large in confirming that.

[cobaltstarfire]

I'm a mod. I can off-top ANYTHING I WANT. In all seriousness, I just think it's a double standard how he interacts with people he perceives as higher than him on the food chain, but for the purposes of trolling a n00b, he switches to off-putting, lazy internet speak.

He's told me before that the only time he really talks with good grammar and stuff is when he's being particularly serious about something, otherwise he's going to type all crazy like.

I mean, I don't think he has any great disrespect for me, and when I've interacted with him in clanOCR he talked in "lazy internet speak" unless he was sending me a semi series private message. (He types all cryptically most the time it seems to me anyway...)

[Liontamer]

He's told me before that the only time he really talks with good grammar and stuff is when he's being particularly serious about something, otherwise he's going to type all crazy like.

He needs to "seriously" stop trolling people. He's so bad at it, he ruins it for the rest of the forums.

[analoq]

Virtually rejected before I even considered submitting? I'm washed-up like a cliché simile.

[ifirit]

Considering the answer(s) given in regards to NO OVERRIDEs, can you explain YES OVERRIDEs?

Additionally, how are ReMixes for games that use "dynamic music" evaluated in regards to comparing the two, i.e. games where the arrangement of the music in-game is compiled in response to the gamer's actions and thus fluxuates on every playthrough? (See Halo: Combat Evolved, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy, etc.) Does the panel refer to composer/arranger arrangements from CD/commercial releases, or is there another method for comparison?

Are arrangements of VGM from non-VGM sources suitable for submission to OCR? (See The Legend of Zelda animated series, Silent Hill the movie, Orchestral Games Concert/Video Games Live/PLAY! A Videogame Symphony, etc.)

Certain games contain music on the physical medium, but are never actually used in the game itself, which is sometimes the case for PC and other CD-ROM titles. Are ReMixes of these unreleased "hidden tracks" a violation of the current submission standards? (See "Singing Mountain" from Chrono Trigger, various PSOne Titles, "Heads No. 1" from Silent Hill 3, etc.) Personally, there is still some obscurity regarding this issue as I'm not sure if the panel distinguishes "...used in the game..." between physically present and executed via operation.

[zircon]

Considering the answer(s) given in regards to NO OVERRIDEs, can you explain YES OVERRIDEs?

There's no such thing as a YES override, only a direct post, which doesn't really compare to a N.O. which the panel technically evaluates.

Additionally, how are ReMixes for games that use "dynamic music" evaluated in regards to comparing the two, i.e. games where the arrangement of the music in-game is compiled in response to the gamer's actions and thus fluxuates on every playthrough? (See Halo: Combat Evolved, Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow, Psi-Ops: The Mindgate Conspiracy, etc.) Does the panel refer to composer/arranger arrangements from CD/commercial releases, or is there another method for comparison?

No real difference in how they're evaluated. We'll listen to the source material however we can, either via the OST or through YouTube. We would simply need to hear exactly what the remixer is arranging and then compare their remix to that material.

Are arrangements of VGM from non-VGM sources suitable for submission to OCR? (See The Legend of Zelda animated series, Silent Hill the movie, Orchestral Games Concert/Video Games Live/PLAY! A Videogame Symphony, etc.)

It's not VGM if it wasn't originally written for a game. For example, incidental music in the LoZ series that was not in the games do not qualify as "VGM" even though the series is about a video game character. We spell that out pretty clearly in our guidelines.

Unless you're asking if an arrangement of VGM made for something like VGL or Play could qualify as an OC ReMix, in which case, sure, there's no problem in evaluating that. You can make a remix for whatever reason you want and it won't impact our judging.

Certain games contain music on the physical medium, but are never actually used in the game itself, which is sometimes the case for PC and other CD-ROM titles. Are ReMixes of these unreleased "hidden tracks" a violation of the current submission standards? (See "Singing Mountain" from Chrono Trigger, various PSOne Titles, "Heads No. 1" from Silent Hill 3, etc.) Personally, there is still some obscurity regarding this issue as I'm not sure if the panel distinguishes "...used in the game..." between physically present and executed via operation.

Considering we have remixes of Singing Mountain, it's safe to say that this is acceptable. It just needs to be present in the original game code somewhere; eg. Singing Mountain was on the CT cart even though it wasn't technically used in the playable game.

[Dafydd]

A few pages back I read something about how most submissions given a "no resubmit" never are resubmitted. I agree it's a shame. I'm one of those mixers who never resubmitted, despite the fact that the things that needed changing were really quick fixes, and here's my story. Please remember, I'm not trying to attack or blame anyone here.

I sat for 2 weeks doing nothing but making that remix. I was in a finals period, and I think think the main reason why I was able to sit down and work on my mix, and do nothing else, for such a long time was because I was subconsciously trying to escape what I really should be diong - study. Well - I sat day and night with this thing, listening to it constantly in my mp3 player whenever I had to leave home to go shopping or something. I tried to get in touch with several judges, and managed to get two of them to listen to it. Neither really had any complaints, one of them none at all. Since I had already submitted the song, all I could do was wait (but I kept modifying it a little every so often since I noticed it hadn't reached the panel yet). Once the song reached the panel, I waited... and I waited... and waited... wai... zzz.

When enough judges (the two I had let listen to it in advance were not among them) had finally voted on my submission, I read the decision thread. Some of the issues that the judges had I didn't really see what they meant by, but most of them were valid, I guess. The problem was that

a) The issues were mostly production related. I can tell that my music doesn't really sound as good as other mixes, or other music, does, because I suck at the production parts of remixing. Like I said, I can hear when it doesn't sound good, but I have no idea how to fix it. So I tried to get help in the forum, but none of the comments were very helpful. Sure, you can tell someone to fiddle with the EQ and play with compressors and stuff, but for me, the more I play with the settings, the worse it gets. When I play with an EQ, it always just sounds "different", never "better". I hear the frequencies getting louder of fainter, but I never get it to sound like I'd really want it to. I'd need someone to do the production for me, and I was unable to find anyone to help me as much as I needed them to.

After having not touched the mix for several months, when I finally got the verdict, I had lost the will to keep working on the mix. To me, it wasn't perfect, but it was finished and done. I had moved on to other things and couldn't, however much I tried, muster the will to get back working on it. I suffer from most of the symptoms that people with ADD have - if I'm not in the mood to do something, I won't do it, even if I actually "want" to (I know it sounds completely ridiculous to someone who doesn't have it, but there it is). I know this is in no way the judges' problem, and that they are not to blame for any of this, and I certainly don't want or expect them to take any of what I'm writing now into consideration when voting on my or others' future mixes, but to me there seems to be a great number of people in this community who have difficulties finishing what they start, judging from how few people post something in the WiP forum and who don't just leave it as a WiP forever, and a shorter queue would probably result in less people having the above problem with lost interest in their previously submitted remix.

There, I'm done with my rant. Remember, I don't want to complain, I'm trying to explain.

BTW, does DJP submit stuff or does he direct post his own mixes without consulting the panel? Has anything he made been "rejected"?

[Thin Crust]

If a remix has source tunes of two different games (Metal Gear May Cry, Knights Come Marching Home) How do you decide which game the remix will be categorized under?

[zircon]

If a remix has source tunes of two different games (Metal Gear May Cry, Knights Come Marching Home) How do you decide which game the remix will be categorized under?

"Metal Gear May Cry" only had one source, it was just in the style of DMC.

For any remix with sources from multiple games, we generally pick the game with the most dominant source usage, as far as I know.

BTW, does DJP submit stuff or does he direct post his own mixes without consulting the panel? Has anything he made been "rejected"?

The vast majority of the time, I believe he just direct posts his mixes. I think there may have been one time when something of his got rejected, but I can't remember the situation.

[DarkeSword]

"Metal Gear May Cry" only had one source, it was just in the style of DMC.

For any remix with sources from multiple games, we generally pick the game with the most dominant source usage, as far as I know.

The vast majority of the time, I believe he just direct posts his mixes. I think there may have been one time when something of his got rejected, but I can't remember the situation.

No, we removed one of his mixes during lockdown because the source music wasn't originally from a video game, but from the Sailor Moon anime.

Dave never posts anything of his own to the panel.

[zykO]

A few pages back I read something about how most submissions given a "no resubmit" never are resubmitted. I agree it's a shame. I'm one of those mixers who never resubmitted, despite the fact that the things that needed changing were really quick fixes, and here's my story. Please remember, I'm not trying to attack or blame anyone here.

well for starters, i'm not a fan of NO Resub for this exact reason. i, myself, hardly ever resubmit something let alone even revisit it. i honestly feel that it is a matter of principle... some artists are the type that love to address a WIP over and over again and some are not. once ive decided something is final... it takes a lot more than a third party suggestion to undo that.

a) The issues were mostly production related.

unfortunately, a huge part of our standard is in production quality. i was mortally opposed to this for several years including the first two of my panelhood... i was just fundamentally against judging music based on the technical aspects of it when we are an amateur scene remixing videogame music... something about it seemed counterintuitive to turn someone away because of EQ.

however, my stance on this changed and not so ironically as i got better at mixing and producing my own music. when i stopped having my shit rejected because it was mixed with shit or produced with my eyes and ears shut, i realized that presentation quality does a lot for the audience; it is sort of like a musical first impression... if something is hard to get into, it won't be explored to the extent that its creative genius may have otherwise commanded and deserved.

my only suggestion is to keep doi what you're doin. what ends up happening, inevitably, is that it'll be a subconscious move towards a better sounding production, anyways

After having not touched the mix for several months, when I finally got the verdict, I had lost the will to keep working on the mix. To me, it wasn't perfect, but it was finished and done.

haha =)

you and me both, brother

check this out for peace of mind, though: that is what makes artistic creation so fun (for lack of a more telling word). i no longer get caught up on what you're referring to because i know something else is coming after it. as i was saying earlier, not everbody has that sort of practical, functional approach to their music... "sure, i'll just go dig it up and tweak this, this n that" - to me it is an entirely ridiculous behavior. i firmly believe that when an artist decides something is done, it most likely is... complete with all the idiosyncracies and ingrown hangnails. i don't think it has anything to do with a deficit in attention... it most likely is what it is

something about the run of creativity juice expired when the track was finished the first time

BTW, does DJP submit stuff or does he direct post his own mixes without consulting the panel? Has anything he made been "rejected"?

yea and hardly ever. i can't even remember the one time that i think it did. then again, wouldnt' you want our fearless leader to bask in the pleasures of life?

[DarkeSword]

We aim to add 20 new judges in the next 6-8 weeks or so. If any of you think you have what it takes, write a 100-200 word essay explaining why you would be a good judge and send to darkesword at ocremix dot org.

Kind of disappointed nobody actually sent me anything for this. Looks like our judgecount is going to stay low this summer.

[Hum4n After All]

Is McVaffe gonna make any more bad ass ReMixes?

[Liontamer]

Is McVaffe gonna make any more bad ass ReMixes?

Gonna need a Magic 8-Ball for that...

[/shaky shaky]

"Better not tell you now"

[Dafydd]

Kind of disappointed nobody actually sent me anything for this. Looks like our judgecount is going to stay low this summer.

I don't think anyone took that seriously... and I think I still don't

[Ciel]

I was wondering which mixes on OCR are some of the most professionally produced, and what kind of gap there is between the general quality of those mixes and actual industry sound engineering/production.

[Dafydd]

Well... Jeremy Soule is an actual game music composer, so his remix should be pretty high quality, but I really wouldn't know. Some of the worst produced songs are likely found among the oldest on the site. What units would you want the gap measured in? Or do you prefer an adjective? Such as "considerable"? That answer will have to suffice until one of the judges come around

[The Pezman]

Dates are the proper way of getting to know someone better; anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about.

The only problem is I've seen and heard of example after example otherwise, and almost none to validate your opinion. Andy and Jill, to cite one we both know.

My parents did meet through a personals ad, so perhaps traditional dating exists outside of a college/high school mentality. But apart from my parents no one I know has said to someone they met for the first time, "Hey, let's go have dinner, talk to one another, and then, if we're both willing, exist in a nebulous state where we can make out with each other but still not be 'in a relationship.'"

Hookups, on the other hand, are becoming more common.

As a new generation of gamers who are not as familiar with 0ld sk00l grows up, do you think that the nature of music submitted here will change? Or will this site cater to old fogies who sit in rocking chairs and reminisce about the glory days?

Similarly, with game music becoming more orchestrally sweeping and less melody-oriented (and therefore, in most peoples' opinions, less remixable), how do you think OCR can (or should) address this trend?

[Sil]

Similarly, with game music becoming more orchestrally sweeping and less melody-oriented (and therefore, in most peoples' opinions, less remixable), how do you think OCR can (or should) address this trend?

I don't think game music is becoming less melody-oriented, it's just becoming harder and harder to midi-rip. For example, the soundtrack to Lair had some awesome melodies that I'm sure people would be more inclined to remix if they heard it played by two 8-bit synth pads.

Maybe the newest trend should be reducing fully orchestral scores into chiptunes. You could call it "unmixing."

[DarkeSword]

I don't think game music is becoming less melody-oriented, it's just becoming harder and harder to midi-rip. For example, the soundtrack to Lair had some awesome melodies that I'm sure people would be more inclined to remix if they heard it played by two 8-bit synth pads.

Maybe the newest trend should be reducing fully orchestral scores into chiptunes. You could call it "unmixing."

Yeah, we don't really accept those.

[The Pezman]

www.underclockedmix.org

Get on it.

[Liontamer]

So, there's this person I want to get to know better, and get a feel for what this person is like. Find out what this person likes, more about this person's life history and what not. But, I don't know how to go about it. I was wondering if you could help me sort it out.

Cause, ya know, you said you'd help.

If you're scoping out this personal as a potential significant other, then ask them out on a date. Dates are the proper way of getting to know someone better; anyone who says otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. Propose a date (tips and rationale on getting a date are here). Then let the person dominate the conversation. That's how you learn more about someone; give them the floor and let them talk about themself.

The only problem is I've seen and heard of example after example otherwise, and almost none to validate your opinion. Andy and Jill, to cite one we both know.

My parents did meet through a personals ad, so perhaps traditional dating exists outside of a college/high school mentality. But apart from my parents no one I know has said to someone they met for the first time, "Hey, let's go have dinner, talk to one another, and then, if we're both willing, exist in a nebulous state where we can make out with each other but still not be 'in a relationship.'"

Hookups, on the other hand, are becoming more common.

Hookups aren't more common, they're just less taboo, so you hear of them more.

Are you saying people typically don't go on dates nowadays? Because that's the only point I made.

No matter how people meet (a hookup, a class, a frat party, a mutual activity, a dating service, a club), most couples end up getting their true start at learning about one another with actual dates. Andy and Jill's relationship progressed because they visited one another and went out in real life, not because they can use IRC. The internet was just how they happened to meet each other. But none of that replaces actually spending quality time getting to know about the other person. If you can't do dates, then guess what? You're doing it all wrong.