Sale of Windows XP ends June 30th

[Gollgagh]

I want to try Vista, but I'm one poor mofo

[EdgeCrusher]

Only problem I have had with Xp was last night actually, when I had to reinstall windows after trying to install SP3. Damn thing wouldn't boot back into windows. But other than that I've used it for years.

[Darth Lime]

Getting a little bit off topic.

Whats your first reaction upon reading that Microsoft isn't going to sell XP?

For me, I was shocked. I like XP because the icons don't take up 75% of the screen and it isn't copying OS X with its widgets and side bar enhancements. XP has been very reliable for me and I will continue to use it in the future.

[EdgeCrusher]

Why are you shocked? XP has ran its course, and like every other OS before it, sooner or later has to be phased out of production. Its just the nature of it.

[DarkeSword]

For me, I was shocked. I like XP because the icons don't take up 75% of the screen and it isn't copying OS X with its widgets and side bar enhancements.

You can make icons 32x32 and turn off the sidebar you know. Case-in-point:

http://darkesword.com/desktop.png

Vista.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Once I build my uber PC sometime next February, I'll give Vista Home Premium a spin.

Of course I'm looking into at least a high-end Core 2, 4 gigs RAM, and hopefully either a good 8800 with 512 RAM or an SLI set-up.

Here's an off topic question though. Is the performance gain on SLI really worth the extra green, or is it really just unnecessary for decent performance?

[DarkeSword]

Once I build my uber PC sometime next February, I'll give Vista Home Premium a spin.

Of course I'm looking into at least a high-end Core 2, 4 gigs RAM, and hopefully either a good 8800 with 512 RAM or an SLI set-up.

Here's an off topic question though. Is the performance gain on SLI really worth the extra green, or is it really just unnecessary for decent performance?

Bolded = what I'm running right now. My computer runs like a champ.

[PlastikBag]

Insane amount of system resources? :\ I think people forget sometimes that Vista isn't for old computers. It's for new ones. If you have the hardware to run Vista, it runs fine. I mean try installing XP on a machine built for 98SE; obviously its going to suck.

Yes, an insane amount of system resources. The OS requires 1 GB ram alone - my system, which can run Crysis on medium, couldn't handle Vista. My buddy bought a new laptop, it had Vista installed on it. This *new* computer could hardly handle Vista, in fact he downgraded because of how slow it was. Game benchmarks report a good 5-10 fps lower on Vista than XP in a lot of cases. In conclusion, Vista is a system whore. Also, there's no way to easily and effectively remove settings to make the OS use less resources. Other, good, operating systems make it easy to turn down the unnecessary features to optimize your OS to your needs.

NEW systems have trouble with Vista. Just because your gaming rig runs it fine doesn't mean that a mainstream computer will.

In terms of compatibility issues: there's a lot of smaller programs that don't work on Vista. For example, the program that I had to use to hack my PSP Slim doesn't work on Vista. This is inconvenient.

Vista used to be pretty insecure and buggy, but that's changed with the SP. However, these problems do still exist, though they are rare (like I already said).

Compared to Apple's excellent OS, and FREE and easy to use linux distros like Ubuntu, Vista is a bad OS.

[Bigfoot]

Once I build my uber PC sometime next February, I'll give Vista Home Premium a spin.

Of course I'm looking into at least a high-end Core 2, 4 gigs RAM, and hopefully either a good 8800 with 512 RAM or an SLI set-up.

Here's an off topic question though. Is the performance gain on SLI really worth the extra green, or is it really just unnecessary for decent performance?

SLI is really only for very large resolutions. I don't think it's worth it IMO.

You should check out the new 4870 cards from AMD/ATI. They're getting pretty awesome reviews and they are priced very well(around $300). It's performing up there with Nvidia's GTX 280 which is like 2 times the price of the 4870.

Check out the benches.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3341

[Pyrion]

Whats your first reaction upon reading that Microsoft isn't going to sell XP?

"Meh." Like I'd care.

For me, I was shocked. I like XP because the icons don't take up 75% of the screen and it isn't copying OS X with its widgets and side bar enhancements. XP has been very reliable for me and I will continue to use it in the future.

You can change the icon size, ya know.

And let's stop with the "copying OS X" crap already. We all know that Apple ripped off Xerox with the GUI in the first place and that's why their lawsuit against MS (for supposedly ripping them off) was thrown out of court.

[Kholdstare]

on the good or badness of vista issue: im on the side of "its evil."

maybe it was the 15 crashes during my CAD final project or my new favorite error where it doesnt allow you to open any new applications of shut down.

i mean it would be acceptable to me if it didnt frustrate me at least once a day.

[Ramaniscence]

Yes, an insane amount of system resources. The OS requires 1 GB ram alone - my system, which can run Crysis on medium, couldn't handle Vista.

I call bullshit on that one. First off XP barely fucntions if you don't have 512 MBs of RAM, and I honestly wouldn't run it with less than 768 ANYWAY, so Vista needing a gig really isn't that outlandish. Especially since RAM costs pennies now a days.

The Crysis / Vista thing is bullshit, and if it's NOT, you're doing it wrong. My PC can barely run Portal at minimum settings but runs Vista fine.

In terms of compatibility issues: there's a lot of smaller programs that don't work on Vista. For example, the program that I had to use to hack my PSP Slim doesn't work on Vista. This is inconvenient.

THIS...ugh. You're going to complain about the compatibility about a program made by 1 guy to hack your PSP not working on Vista and call compatibility issues? Cool.

Here's one for you:

I BOUGHT a popular OS X skinning program that now that doesn't work since I upgraded for Leopard because Apple broke the whole coding environment.

And Ubuntu is FREE and "easy to use" but if you wanna talk about compatibility problems...yea good luck having a good range of software choices with that one. Linux really has no place in this conversation.

Yea, I put Ubuntu or gOS on every computer I build for my family members, but that's because they only listen to music, browse the internet, and chat on AIM. They really have no business installing a bunch of other crap so that way I don't have to go in and clean out their computer once a month; becuase they can't figure out how to install anything. Makes my life way easier.

[Argle]

They really need to stop selling Vista instead.

[prophetik music]

Here's an off topic question though. Is the performance gain on SLI really worth the extra green, or is it really just unnecessary for decent performance?

larger resolutions are generally perform the best on sli. however, consider this. the newest cards - the 9 series and the gtx 2xx series - get almost double performance out of sli on those larger resolutions. it's something like 90% scalability or something. at lower resolutions, the 9800gtx or the 4870s or 3870x2 are the best (i'd go with a new 4870, they're beasts and cheap) but if you want two cards go with dual 9600gt cards - they scale awesome, they're cheap, and for 350 you can perform as well as or better than other cards costing the same. IN MY EXPERIENCE. real-world benches are way better than test benches, don't forget.

[TheSnowStorm]

They really need to stop selling Vista instead.

Yeah, because outdated OS going to be so much more advance down the road.

Hey, hey! While everyone being a bit off topic, here's one thing PC users can do that Mac users can't:

3,449,238 Mac fans switched back over to Windows, even though Windows is just as shitty.

-Maddox

[Schwaltzvald]

Yeah, because an outdated OS going to be so much more advance down the road.

That doesn't affirm vista being actually better

in any rate, there;s nothing wrong with wanting to stick with a dated os to begin. As time goes on, it gets less focus by those who break into the OS while the next big thing becomes targeted. Give something very appealing or worthwhile target, apple os/unix based oses would crumble just as easily; put aside the fanboyisms please...

no os is exempt from crackers/abusers. Only reasons most alternative oses are not having chronic issues with crackers/hackers is because it's not as widely used. They are not being used as often as choice for big business or even govt. For the few that do hey thats simply trying to avoid attention from breakers or find an essier way to manage data, not exactly to oogle at a different way of using a desktop..

Had things been different and Apple's or even Unix based OSes were the dominate ones, they would be facing the same issues as Windows does now.

PS vista blows dead poodles

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

larger resolutions are generally perform the best on sli. however, consider this. the newest cards - the 9 series and the gtx 2xx series - get almost double performance out of sli on those larger resolutions. it's something like 90% scalability or something. at lower resolutions, the 9800gtx or the 4870s or 3870x2 are the best (i'd go with a new 4870, they're beasts and cheap) but if you want two cards go with dual 9600gt cards - they scale awesome, they're cheap, and for 350 you can perform as well as or better than other cards costing the same. IN MY EXPERIENCE. real-world benches are way better than test benches, don't forget.

Dude I'm probably not gonna be able to ask you to build me a PC, but I definitely want your assistance when the time comes. I've been out of the loop since I bought my lappy in March last year, so I don't really know what's what anymore.

[operawonderdude]

on the good or badness of vista issue: im on the side of "its evil."

maybe it was the 15 crashes during my CAD final project or my new favorite error where it doesnt allow you to open any new applications of shut down.

i mean it would be acceptable to me if it didnt frustrate me at least once a day.

Were you using AutoCAD (or Inventor)? That's probably why you were having such problems then. SolidWorks runs pretty smoothly on my shitty vista toshiba laptop.

[Kholdstare]

Were you using AutoCAD (or Inventor)? That's probably why you were having such problems then. SolidWorks runs pretty smoothly on my shitty vista toshiba laptop.

no. i had damn NX 5.

that thing alone had enough problems

[prophetik music]

Dude I'm probably not gonna be able to ask you to build me a PC, but I definitely want your assistance when the time comes. I've been out of the loop since I bought my lappy in March last year, so I don't really know what's what anymore.

i'm not as good with lower-level ati cards, but in terms of components i know pretty much which is which =) i can probably rattle off benchmark numbers for just about anything by now...although it's my own benchmarks, not an open-air testbed.

[Pyrion]

I call bullshit on that one. First off Vist barely fucntions if you don't have 512 MBs of RAM, and I honestly wouldn't run it with less than 768 ANYWAY, so Vista needing a gig really isn't that outlandish. Especially since RAM costs pennies now a days.

Sign of the times. RAM dropped in price because RAM manufacturers were expecting a massive migration to Vista, which didn't pan out, so there isn't a great demand for all that memory. 2GB is about all anyone really wants to run, which is stupid. The memory's dirt cheap and people seem to think that it only makes sense to buy it when it's "needed," except that when it's needed, the price is going to go back up into "expensive as fuck" territory where it was before demand.

That's why I'm running 8GB. Even if I have little use for it outside of a 5.3GB disk cache (SuperFetch FTW!), it's dirt cheap and my system can handle it, so why not? Right now what isn't dirt cheap is 4GB DDR2 sticks and that's because most boards only support 8GB max, and with four slots available, it's far easier to pull that off with 4 2GB sticks. My board supports 16GB though, and if I could afford 4 4GB sticks, I'd buy them in a heartbeat.

What really irks me about this sort of complaint is the notion that those who bitch about Vista being a "RAM hog" are unwilling to upgrade their memory anyways. I mean, what's the point of complaining if you have no intention of upgrading anyways?

The Crysis / Vista thing is bullshit, and if it's NOT, you're doing it wrong. My PC can barely run Portal at minimum settings but runs Vista fine.

Crysis in and of itself is bullshit. The only thing that can run it at Very High is the GeForce GTX 280, and for that you need TWO of them in SLI. Have fun spending $1200+ on a game that's all eye candy and nothing else.

[Effef]

larger resolutions are generally perform the best on sli. however, consider this. the newest cards - the 9 series and the gtx 2xx series - get almost double performance out of sli on those larger resolutions. it's something like 90% scalability or something. at lower resolutions, the 9800gtx or the 4870s or 3870x2 are the best (i'd go with a new 4870, they're beasts and cheap) but if you want two cards go with dual 9600gt cards - they scale awesome, they're cheap, and for 350 you can perform as well as or better than other cards costing the same. IN MY EXPERIENCE. real-world benches are way better than test benches, don't forget.

Agreed, if you aren't running 1900x1200 or above SLI isn't worth the money. If you run 1680x1050 like a normal person a single 4870 will play anything you want.

Also:

Vista is a RAM hog for a reason. It preloads programs into RAM, so they appear faster when you want them too. I seriously cannot see how this is a bad thing unless you do major CAD, music, or photoshopping and you need the RAM.

Also also, WTF does it matter if your RAM is being used? What else is it there for, if not to be used? Otherwise its just taking up space and electricity for no reason.

[L.T.W.]

Yes, an insane amount of system resources. The OS requires 1 GB ram alone - my system, which can run Crysis on medium, couldn't handle Vista. My buddy bought a new laptop, it had Vista installed on it. This *new* computer could hardly handle Vista, in fact he downgraded because of how slow it was. Game benchmarks report a good 5-10 fps lower on Vista than XP in a lot of cases. In conclusion, Vista is a system whore. Also, there's no way to easily and effectively remove settings to make the OS use less resources. Other, good, operating systems make it easy to turn down the unnecessary features to optimize your OS to your needs.

NEW systems have trouble with Vista. Just because your gaming rig runs it fine doesn't mean that a mainstream computer will.

In terms of compatibility issues: there's a lot of smaller programs that don't work on Vista. For example, the program that I had to use to hack my PSP Slim doesn't work on Vista. This is inconvenient.

Vista used to be pretty insecure and buggy, but that's changed with the SP. However, these problems do still exist, though they are rare (like I already said).

Compared to Apple's excellent OS, and FREE and easy to use linux distros like Ubuntu, Vista is a bad OS.

I dont know what kind of computer you run, but my 5 YEAR OLD computar runs Vista smoothly, yet I can only play C&C3 on the lowest settings.

And I've had no problems w/ Vista so far.

[prophetik music]

age doesn't matter, system resources and a good architecture in your chip does. i can think of cpus five years old that are still good chips, albeit underpowered compared to today's stuff.

[Drack]

Doesn't matter to me. Here are a few reasons:

-In a bizarre sales model and in spite of this date passing, Microsoft will continue to distribute downgrade XP discs to manufacturers. The catch that allows this? It's counted by Microsoft's system as a Vista sale. The only problem here is hardware drivers. The company I work for recently bought a few laptops from HP that were a nightmare for our IT workers to get fully operational on XP. For example, they ended up using a competitor's driver for the fingerprint reader. Nvidia did not offer a driver for the mobile graphics card (HP only had a vista driver), so they had to google for a hacked copy that included their hardware id in the .inf.

-I'm a Linux user. The only reason I dual-boot to Windows is for games. Everything else can be done in a VM, or has superior equivilents. And that dual boot partition is Server 2003. Top performance, less bullshit to change on install to get to my settings, and I get it free and legally through MSDNAA.