OCR TF2: New Server forthcoming - new server IPs and other stuff

[atmuh]

yup yup

[Powerlord]

sawmill has been replaced with cp_yukon_final

Aw, not koth_sawmill?

Of course, I don't think anyone noticed when I snuck koth_nucleus in the mapcycle a while back...

[ParanoidDrone]

I noticed, if you count "Ooh, Nucleus, haven't been there in a while" as noticing.

It probably helps we haven't had any real downers of a round there yet.

[NrgSpoon]

The main reason I think 2fort is bad is that no matter which route you take to the intel, you'll have to pass a point which is visible from the enemies' spawn room. Compare this to Turbine where the most direct route hardly comes near the spawns. Even the other ctf maps have alternate routes where you can dodge the spawns, though Well is just barely.

Anyway, when you make your map, please at the very least add some good water areas. This is probably my biggest issue with most maps in general. In fact, if you made it so there was a water exit attached directly to the flag room, I think that could be very interesting.

[SporkNinjaDraken]

I would like to raise a point that is a mild annoyance to me and I think others too...

er why do we lose points for Crits? I mean not just random ones I mean skill crits too like headshots, axtinguishes, backstabs I think kills with the Kritzkrieg and even the backburner and the Targe and well I don't think we should be punished for killing people with those types of crits =/

Can we fix this?

[Brycepops]

I would like to raise a point that is a mild annoyance to me and I think others too...

er why do we lose points for Crits? I mean not just random ones I mean skill crits too like headshots, axtinguishes, backstabs I think kills with the Kritzkrieg and even the backburner and the Targe and well I don't think we should be punished for killing people with those types of crits =/

Can we fix this?

...It's 1/one/uno point. It's not that big of a deal.

[atmuh]

I would like to raise a point that is a mild annoyance to me and I think others too...

er why do we lose points for Crits? I mean not just random ones I mean skill crits too like headshots, axtinguishes, backstabs I think kills with the Kritzkrieg and even the backburner and the Targe and well I don't think we should be punished for killing people with those types of crits =/

Can we fix this?

all minicrits count too lol

you also lose points for dominations and revenges

also koth sawmill is horrendous (same as every version of sawmill)

[miyako]

you can see the terrible design of ctf maps very easily

let's start with the most butchered ctf map: 2fort

2fort has, for the attackers, one feasible route that they can take in order to get the enemy's intel. that route passes the defender's ramproom (i don't know what you guys call this, maybe the 'courtyard'). this area not only gives the defender's height advantage, but also a spawn room right next to their position.

this spawn room isn't just for healing, but also to bypass the attacker's push completely. the attacking team must uber to ensure they successfully push up the ramproom and defenders. usually the defenders will simply uber themselves and whoever wins that fight will push the other team back. with a spawn room right next to the defenders, this isn't the only option. the defenders can simply all go into their spawn room, wait for the attacker's uber to disappear, and then come out unscathed and have an uber advantage. obviously this makes for boring games

turbine on the other hand has various routes to the intel but pretty much only one feasible route. this route however doesn't give the defenders height advantage nor does it have a spawn room right next to them. this makes it easier for the attackers to push in and makes the game more enjoyable. the area in which the fights commonly happen are also very close to the intel, meaning the outcome of a fight doesn't have to be 100% clear in order for the attackers to have a chance at capping the intel. on 2fort the attackers may win the fight but with the design of the bases themselves the attacking team might get pinned inside the defender's own base after the defenders respawn since the spawn rooms cover all the exit routes for the intel carrier

[SporkNinjaDraken]

...It's 1/one/uno point. It's not that big of a deal.

One point that stacks up over time especially if you're a sniper or like Brushfire a backburner pyro being punished for killing someone with a skill crit shouldn't even -be- there in my opinion.

[ParanoidDrone]

all minicrits count too lol

you also lose points for dominations and revenges

For reference, the following weapons all have ways to force a crit or minicrit:

Direct Hit

Backburner

Flare Gun

Axetinguisher

Sniper Rifle

Huntsman

Knife

Ambassador

And then there's buff/debuff effects:

Buff Banner

Chargin' Targe

KGB

Kritzkrieg

Jarate

One point that stacks up over time especially if you're a sniper or like Brushfire a backburner pyro being punished for killing someone with a skill crit shouldn't even -be- there in my opinion.

So taking into account the number of weapons that grant nonrandom crits, I'm inclined to agree with this. Only the Scout and Engineer lack such weapons, and in the Engineer's case it's only because he hasn't been updated yet.

[Vahn_Paktu]

Losing points to dominations or revenges doesn't bother me that much but Crit kills do stack up.

My top 3 actions:

1 Kill Assist 1,051 times 2,102

2 Critical Kill 852 times -852

3 Domination 407 times 2,035

I'm aiming for more Crits then assists.

[atmuh]

oh wait yeah you dont lose for doms and revenges only when people do that to you my mistake

[Secret Agent Man]

Of course, I don't think anyone noticed when I snuck koth_nucleus in the mapcycle a while back...

You really need to stop doing that.

[DarkeSword]

Stop caring about points.

[Eulogic]

Then get rid of them.

[FireSlash]

You lose points for crits in the same way that the blutsauger drains your health

It really just means you get less. hlstats feels that a kill without any crit assistance (mini or otherwise) is more valuable than a normal kill for the process of player rankings. hlstats isn't scoring how well you did in that round, it's scoring how well you perform in relation to other players.

[The Mutericator]

Stop caring about points.

Ditto this. Jesus guys, it's a game for fun, stop taking it so seriously.

[Eulogic]

hlstats feels that a kill without any crit assistance (mini or otherwise) is more valuable than a normal kill for the process of player rankings.

But at the point where a bodyshot kill will get you more points than a headshot, it's not really a very good system.

[ParanoidDrone]

You lose points for crits in the same way that the blutsauger drains your health

It really just means you get less. hlstats feels that a kill without any crit assistance (mini or otherwise) is more valuable than a normal kill for the process of player rankings. hlstats isn't scoring how well you did in that round, it's scoring how well you perform in relation to other players.

But what if it's your skill that got you the crit in the first place? Headshots are crits. Backstabs are crits. The Kritzkrieg and Buff Banner provide a controlled method of buffing your team with crits/minicrits out the wazoo, but you'd be silly to call someone unskilled for properly utilitzing one. (See: Charging a Sentry with a Kritzkrieg...) Jarate debuffs specific enemies and makes them recieve minicrits -- would you call them unearned because the attacking player did nothing different, or earned because the Sniper was smart enough to throw it in the first place?

On a nocrit server, these controlled crits still activate. (Except the backstab, for some reason. It reverts to the old pokestab mechanics in this case.) Random crits don't. The distinction is obvious, but AFAIK there's no way to distinguish between the two just by parsing whatever gets parsed for stats. (Server log? IDK.)

(The irony here is that I stopped caring about my stats ages ago, but I strongly disagree with this on principle.)

[FireSlash]

But what if it's your skill that got you the crit in the first place? Headshots are crits. Backstabs are crits.

The knife has an adjusted point weight, all knife kills are worth more points than most other weapons. A backstab also awards 'backstab kill', which is +2 points, easily negating the loss.

Similarly, headshots award +2 points, negating the crit penalty and still awarding a point.

The Kritzkrieg and Buff Banner provide a controlled method of buffing your team with crits/minicrits out the wazoo, but...

Again, hlstats isn't punishing you for pulling off a kill with the assistance of a crit of minicrit. It's simply adjusting your award for the kill since the kill was easier than it would have been without the crit. In the case of buff banner/jarate, you're still being rewarded because without the assistance of these, you pmight not have earned the kill in the first place. You also probably took less damage, increasing your odds of completing another kill you wouldn't have otherwise.

[Clefairy]

Stop caring about points.

This.

[Kiyobi]

Winner is Clefairy.

[atmuh]

Then get rid of them.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[ParanoidDrone]

The knife has an adjusted point weight, all knife kills are worth more points than most other weapons. A backstab also awards 'backstab kill', which is +2 points, easily negating the loss.

Similarly, headshots award +2 points, negating the crit penalty and still awarding a point.

Again, hlstats isn't punishing you for pulling off a kill with the assistance of a crit of minicrit. It's simply adjusting your award for the kill since the kill was easier than it would have been without the crit. In the case of buff banner/jarate, you're still being rewarded because without the assistance of these, you pmight not have earned the kill in the first place. You also probably took less damage, increasing your odds of completing another kill you wouldn't have otherwise.

I used backstabs and headshots as the most obvious situations, and I realize they have extra point modifiers added to them, so in retrospect they probably weren't the best examples.

Regular kills award 1 point, yes? And the crit/minicrit penalty subtracts a point. AFAIK, headshots and backstabs are the only methods of killing someone that are inherently worth extra points. So if you kill someone with, say, the Axetinguisher, using the puff-and-sting technique, you'd end up gaining 0 net points for a fairly technical maneuver, simply because the reward for such a maneuver was a crit. Um, what?

(For the record, I have no problem with this applying to random crits. It's the skill-based ones like the Axetinguisher that I have issues with this applying to.)

[Powerlord]

I used backstabs and headshots as the most obvious situations, and I realize they have extra point modifiers added to them, so in retrospect they probably weren't the best examples.

Regular kills award 1 point, yes? And the crit/minicrit penalty subtracts a point. AFAIK, headshots and backstabs are the only methods of killing someone that are inherently worth extra points. So if you kill someone with, say, the Axetinguisher, using the puff-and-sting technique, you'd end up gaining 0 net points for a fairly technical maneuver, simply because the reward for such a maneuver was a crit. Um, what?

(For the record, I have no problem with this applying to random crits. It's the skill-based ones like the Axetinguisher that I have issues with this applying to.)

I'm pretty sure regular kills are 2 points.