Cel Shaded done right, or how I learned to stop worrying and love the Wind Waker....

[I-n-j-i-n]

I would not say Wind Waker was a 'dark' game, and heavens no on 'exremely dark'. It was melancholic, that was all. Besides, Hyrule still continues, Links are still born and everything continues even after the apocalypse. In that sense, it was actually a pretty bright and cheery story in a way.

Also, though the ocean could've use more variety, I liked sailing through oceans quite a bit more than traveling on land due to the aesthetics of seafaring.

Maybe someday they'll do sky-faring? It only makes sense.

And finally, though the dungeons were great, the game was still too easy and ushered in the age of Zelda games where you might not die once the whole playthrough. Also there were too few of it.

[Poke'G]

As for the story, they must have wanted it to be like OoT, they must have felt pressured to live up to it. But that game has come and gone. Don't reuse the same elements of the tale. If they want to be so close OoT, then remake it. I loved Midna's tale in Twilight, but beyond that, not much else besides a few boss fights were that great for me.

They need to start from scratch on the storyline.

True, Twilight Princess started out so well, but didn't keep up the momentum of it's story. To be fair, it did take some original turns, such as creating an actual romantic interest for Link, two in fact and neither were Zelda. They didn't explain Zant or Ganondorf's involvement nearly enough to make you care by end game. With all the potential they built up, Zant was just a weak puppet, and Ganondorf was just there (How'd he escape after OoT in the first place?). I did enjoy the implication that the spirit you learned techniques from was the Hero of Time, the attempt at consistency between OoT Hyrule and TP Hyrule, and the return of Gorons and Zoras.

Maybe someday they'll do sky-faring? It only makes sense.

Perhaps. They've had sky based races in the past two console iterations. If it did happen, I'd hope they'd keep it from being too much the central focus, lest we run into Wind Waker's fault. The sailing would have been awesome had there been enough landmass to keep it from being tedious.

[cobaltstarfire]

I really enjoyed the graphics in WW, I often like cel shaded graphics though. The TP ones are good too and have a bit of a cartoonie flare to them, but I honestly tend to feel more pull to graphics that are neat and stylized over realistic and textury.

WW amused me, had interesting fun to look at graphics, had good pacing and story, and while some people hated the sailing, I rather enjoyed it. Especially finding all the different islands/ships/submarines and solving the puzzles for them. WW is the only Zelda game I've felt very absorbed by. Granted I've only played 4 (LA,OoT, WW and a bit of TP)

I can't really comment on TP beyond the control and targetting scheme seeming annoying and clunky. I was playing it with a friend, but Okami sort of stole my attention away from finishing TP. I promised him I wouldn't play TP without him, so I have to wait till December to get back to it.

[Devyn]

I think Wind Waker had better graphics than twilight princess. I love both of those games so much, but yeah Wind Waker's graphics were just superb. The only thing I didn't really like about Wind Waker was that most of the world was made up of small islets. There was hardly any land on the game, and it made you wonder how the people were able to survive or even find enough trees to build their boats (plus I like exploring the land. Still waiting to get a DS so I can play the sequel....

Twilight Princess was/is really good, but I think the formula was starting to get stale when it came around. In the meantime, I think I'll try the Minish Cap game before I move on to the DS Zelda game.

[Jam Stunna]

Whoo... Got a bit off-topic there, but seriously, if Nintendo did even HALF of this shit or shit like it, I'd be all over the Wii. Since they developed the Wii M+ and thus knew about it, they could totally do it.

As awesome as that sounds, I absolutely refuse to give Nintendo any more money on peripherals.

[Fishy]

I got bored of OOT and TP somewhere in the second half of both. I've completed WW twice now, probably will play it again soon.

There's just something about the style that is so much more playable.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

Well I was thinking that by the time this came out, the Wii Motion+ would already be integrated in the controllers(which it should have been from the get go), although that might just be wishful thinking.

[Toadofsky]

I posted something on page 2 about how they could integrate motion controls for Zelda, don't remember the link. If anybody is daring, go ahead and check it out. I seriously hope Nintedo considers using this style especially with one to one motion control. Sword fights will never be the same again.

And someone commented on the seuqel for DS. It was good, but not great. But to see the cell shading return was awesome.

[Antipode]

I enjoyed Phantom Hourglass. It was a somewhat different design, it was a sequel to one of my favorite games ever, and it had Linebeck (who was really well-written and developed). But yeah, it didn't hit me with the same vibe Wind Waker did. Ciela was cool and all but she talked so much (and often in place of Link where he couldn't) that it sapped away a lot of link's character and charm that he had in wind waker. Plus even with more dungeons it didn't feel as expansive as WW (maybe because the ocean was smaller - again, it needed more exploration). The dungeons were short and they ALL HAD THE SAME MUSIC. (Seriously, dungeon music is EXTREMELY important to the atmosphere - look at the Forest Temple of OoT and the Earth Temple from WW). They completely dropped the ball on that in both TP and PH. I did really enjoy a lot of the touch functions though (like drawing on the map and charting courses) and the Temple of the Ocean King was pretty awesome.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

The dungeon's in all the Zelda games before Link's Awakening all had the same music and it never bugged me.

Yeah you wanna talk about an awesome Zelda game, you've gotta mention the Gameboy Zeldas.

I posted something on page 2 about how they could integrate motion controls for Zelda, don't remember the link. If anybody is daring, go ahead and check it out. I seriously hope Nintedo considers using this style especially with one to one motion control. Sword fights will never be the same again.

I like the ideas the guy came up with. In terms of sword combat though, I don't think total freedom is the way to go as that could just lead to more awkward waggling. What they should do is build a certain amount of sword strikes(horizontal, vertical, etc.) as well as parrying and blocking mechanics. I think a key thing to do would make sure that the controls for each weapon or item be significantly different from one another so that they're all mostly engaging and fun to use for the player. I love his idea for the hookshot as well.

Since we both came up with some similar ideas, I'm sure that someone at Nintendo must be thinking along the same lines, and might be doing all this.

If anything though, Nintendo really has to give it to Square for bringing back my confidence in the Wii and the DS by creating a little game called The World Ends With You that manages to use almost every feature on the DS to make an explosion of awesome in game form. I believe that Nintendo can do the same for the Wii, and I'm just waiting to see it happen.

[Raziellink]

The last great Zelda game was Majora's Mask, with Wind Waker coming in second. I hate Twilight Princess because it tried to be Ocarina of Time, but with prettier graphics. Zelda has been on a standstill since 1998.

That's why i liked WW. It tried something DIFFERENT.

[SirChadlyOC]

I feel like I'm suddenly in the minority, but I didn't like Wind Waker. I liked the art, but I couldn't get past the initial gameplay. There was too much hiding and espionage at the beginning, and I found the sailing to be long and tedious. The new swordplay was awesome, but the lack of challenge never allowed me to feel like I was trying hard to swing my sword.

I liked Twilight Princess a lot. I really thought the added sword elements worked here to be difficult, yet achievable for neat results. Like the Helm Splitter.

I didn't like Majora's Mask. I thought having a constant time limit felt like having a looming deadline on a writing assignment. I didn't feel like I could take the time to really explore. It may have been a good game, but it sure didn't feel like Zelda.

I'm sure I'm going to be flamed for these comments, but hey, discussions are lame if everyone agrees on everything.

[Hector]

I thought that Phantom Hourglass fixed most of the problems with WW. Mainly the sailing thing. The game was brilliant with how the sub-items were incorporated. The problem was that the game was a bit short--and not difficult enough (though I've held that opinion for most Zelda games since Majora's mask).

[The Mutericator]

I agree with this. Wind Waker was shit, pure and through. The cel-shading was all it had going for it, and the ONE TIME you get to fight everything after getting the Master Sword. Other than that, the game was slow, uninspired, and generally just a waste of time to go through (LOL Triforce Quest).

Phantom Hourglass fixed the sailing, and for a handheld Zelda it's pretty damned amazing. Still, nothing can touch Majora's Mask (if you felt the time limit too strongly, that might be a personal problem).

[DrumUltimA]

i LOVED wind waker, but i also loved twilight princess. both were beautiful in their own right to me...

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

I thought that Twilight Princess was great, but I'm a bigger fan of the side story-esque Zelda games like Majora's Mask, the Oracle games, and Link's Awakening.

I'd like to see another Zelda game unrelated to the Link, Zelda, Gannon story.

I don't think any Zelda game has given me that same eerie, ethnic, somewhat dissonant feel the way Majora's Mask did.

[Steben]

I do agree that the Triforce hunt is the stupidest thing ever in a Zelda game. I don't need ten separate, huge dungeons, but that was just terrible. And it was way too easy, but only because of the damage ratio (quarter-heart damage? Come on!). But the puzzles were typical Zelda stuff, which made me happy.

Actually, I'm pretty sure that the quarter-heart damage has been there since the first Zelda. However, the life gauge rounds the health it displays to the nearest half-heart.

That being said, I think the only time you ever received less than half a heart of damage was after you got some sort of armor in the old games, so it's really like Wind Waker starts you off with the blue ring/mail/whatever from the older games.

[ZeroBass.Exe]

Slightly off topic, but I remember a project some people were doing a few years back about Cel-Shading the Ocarina Of Time. Anybody bring me up to date on that?

[Poke'G]

I never heard of a cel-shading project for Ocarina of Time.

There was a project to make it SNES style 2D, but that effort crashed. I think it was a cease and desist, but I'm not sure.

[Triad Orion]

Wind Waker is definitely one of my top 3 Zelda games. There's something so amazing to me about the colors and the expressions of Link and the fact that you actually have an adventure game with a bright, almost-happy setting as opposed to the standard doom-and-gloom of story-driven games. There's a sense of joy to be had when playing Wind Waker, because I feel they did a wonderful job of portraying the youthful heroism of Link, and the people who help him on his journey.

WW also has a sense of artistic direction, much like other cel-shaded games (Dark Cloud 2 immediately comes to mind for me as well). Whereas OoT immediately looks dated now, WW still holds its own because it represents an art style, as opposed to simply being the most graphically advanced thing possible at the time. Graphics get dated, style doesn't. Also, I may be the only person ever who actually enjoys sailing.

WW had my favorite Link, and my favorite Ganondorf by far. OoT actually introduced Ganondorf as a character as opposed to a faceless endboss, and WW successfully expanded on that character in my opinion. He's a little wiser, and more reflective, but he still harbors the same greed and hate that make him such a compelling villain. They've just been tempered by age, until he unleashes it in a vengeful but ultimately futile attack. The Triforce is beyond his grasp, but he still hates, and Link and Zelda's lives are a consolation prize. To me, Twilight Princess represented a huge step backwards in terms of Ganondorf, to the days of Ganon/Aghanim, where Ganon is nothing more than a puppeteer of a much more interesting villain (in this case, Zant) and simply makes a cameo appearance at the end.

I could continue singing the praises of WW forever, but I'll sum it up as such: I think Wind Waker (along with Majora's Mask), is one of the more ambitious and unique Zelda games, and I love it for the vision and risk-taking demonstrated. Fantastic gameplay is par for the course for a Zelda game; it's everything else that makes this one of my favorites.

This may be one of the older posts in the thread, but I've only just now gotten around to peeking back in.

...Jam, I can safely say you spoke for me too here. Well said.

[Antipode]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PakaVBe7rY

It's hard to see the major difference with such a low-res video, but there you go.

Texture Pack

BMGLib

Rice Video Plugin

[ZeroBass.Exe]

I never heard of a cel-shading project for Ocarina of Time.

There was a project to make it SNES style 2D' date=' but that effort crashed. I think it was a cease and desist, but I'm not sure.[/quote']

No, I saw a thread about it here on OCR, but like I said, it's been a while. I even saw screenshots. No offense, Poke, but I believe it was before your time.

[Red Shadow]

haaaaaah i love the reference in the thread title