Nintendo's Big Press Conference

[The Mutericator]

you do realize that your entire argument revolves around the fact that you don't use it very much, right

'people shouldn't care about the removal of the GBA slot because I haven't used it in forever'

You realize my point revolves around how often someone decides to switch between playing games in the average amount of time they're away from wherever they keep their systems, right? Most people don't just have their handhelds on long trips, and Nintendo isn't going to take away your DS and Lites as soon as you buy a DSi. You will still have access to your precious GBA library, just in a different system. If you get nostalgic for the good old Advance days, you can always boot up your DS or take it with you instead.

My point is you aren't missing out on anything because you'll still have all your old hardware to use and keep with you, even though most buyers won't even have use for that.

EDIT: I'm out, got shit to do tomorrow and I'm already sick. Have fun guys.

[Imagist]

but bleck waggling is so hard it requires so much effort my poor hand will break just like my poor little thumbs have so many times over the years!

p.s. guys http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man it's not quite what you think it is--simplification is not a fallacy, attacking something that's not really the issue at hand (a straw man misrepresentation, the arguer via ad hominem) is

p.p.s. you realize it is very very common for people to want to trade in or get rid of their old hardware when they upgrade, companies don't usually go out of their way to ensure people have to be packrats to enjoy all their products (although nintendo admittedly has a history of this with their handhelds)

[Bleck]

Most people don't just have their handhelds on long trips, and Nintendo isn't going to take away your DS and Lites as soon as you buy a DSi.

you do realize that your entire argument revolves around the fact that you don't use it very much, right

Handhelds are very useful for longer trips, NOT just 15 minutes on the bus/train, and having to bring another electronic device AND charger just to play games that, in gaming terms, JUST came out is pretty silly.

replace the word 'zircon' with 'a great many people' basically

[Scufo]

yeah if your wrist is made of papier mache

unless you're a toddler you pretty much expend the same amount of energy to slightly shake the controller back and forth as yo would pushing a button over and over and over again

quite frankly, whether or not you have to waggle a stick or push a button is irrelevant - if you have to do something over and over and over than the combat itself is stale, which is an oft-ignored problem that okami had

It's not that waggling requires any physical exertion, it's just that pressing a button feels more precise. Like, I want to do a three hit combo, right? So I press the button three times. If I'm waggling, I guess I just waggle until I hit them three times? In Mario Galaxy I never really had that problem because just about everything died with one spin attack + running into them. Or jumping on them.

You're right, though. It's not a huge difference. But given the option I'd rather press a button.

[Bleck]

the only platformer/action game I've ever played where pushing the button three times resulted in exactly three attacks was Super Mario 64

every other title basically ever has focused on timing more than number of button pushes; i.e if in okami I press SQUARESQUARESQUARE I'll attack once or maybe twice, but if I press SQUARE, SQUARE, SQUARE - only then will it actually do a three hit combo

[VerSus22]

This is just infuriating. So, if I want to play GBA and DS games on the go with a DSi (or SOME DS GAMES) I need to bring TWO handheld devices. That's beyond stupid.

Nintendo is just doing some things wrong.

[Scufo]

Well yeah, but I'd still say that pressing a button three times with correct timing is a tighter and more responsive system than flicking a wiimote three times with correct timing. It's not anything to crucify the developers over, but it's just not using motion control in the right ways. Drawing on screen with the wiimote is good. Controlling your aim in an FPS with the wiimote is good (I'm kinda neutral to the concept but I know lots of people like it...maybe if you could shoot in two directions at once with the wiimote and nunchuck I'd be more into it). Moving a little pointer around to collect little pickups that appear everywhere is good. These things can't be done well with buttons and sticks, so stuff like this is what motion control should be used for. For most other things I think we can stick with buttons.

Oh and multiplayer party games that are just fun and have no real depth can go crazy with motion controls. If you're just dicking around with friends these things really don't matter.

[Dhsu]

This is just infuriating. So, if I want to play GBA and DS games on the go with a DSi (or SOME DS GAMES) I need to bring TWO handheld devices. That's beyond stupid.

You're really blowing this out of proportion, zircon. Were you this upset when you found out the DS didn't have GBC support? "I need two systems and chargers to play Shantae and Meteos in the same trip WHAT THE FIG NEWTONS IS THIS MADNESS."

[I-n-j-i-n]

I'm sort of scared for the shorter battery life, their emphasis on apps (again, why are they competing against the iPhone, again?), a CAMERA, and a web browser... I mean, they're just jumping into all the cliques they have been supposedly against. And it doesn't really make sense to semi-upgrade the DS to do it. Why not wait for a true next generation?

[VerSus22]

Were you this upset when you found out the DS didn't have GBC support? "I need two systems and chargers to play Shantae and Meteos in the same trip."

When the DS didn't have GBC support, I was disappointed. However, seeing that you can download demos from DS Download Play is a great feature I think to make up non-GBC support.

Well with the DSi there is no GBA support, but the ability to use the SD card to listen to music, view photos, as well as DSi Shop makes up for that.

[Overflow]

I'm sort of scared for the shorter battery life, their emphasis on apps (again, why are they competing against the iPhone, again?), a CAMERA, and a web browser... I mean, they're just jumping into all the cliques they have been supposedly against. And it doesn't really make sense to semi-upgrade the DS to do it. Why not wait for a true next generation?

I think it probably has something to do with their E3. After they saw how much everyone hated it and was starting to lose faith in them (Myself not included), they took whatever product they were working on and quickly finished it up, aka the DSi. They probably had greater plans for it and were planning to release it in 2010 or so.

Then again...They are prepared to ship it in Japan on november 1, so I'm probably wrong, but still.

But about the whole GBA thing: I'm ripped too, but we had the same deal with the original DS and GBC games. We got over it. And again, the people who want to play those games that need the GBA slot likely already can, so complaining about a company pushing forward is weird.

Also, I don't care what Nintendo says: this is going to replace the DS. They said the same thing about the game boy, so no reason to believe them about this.

P.S. There are tons of great GBA games, and the pokemon issue is something that bugs me too. But again, I already have the means to do it, so I really have no reason to complain, I guess.

[Overflow]

When the DS didn't have GBC support, I was disappointed. However, seeing that you can download demos from DS Download Play is a great feature I think to make up non-GBC support.

I had also thought: Download-able GB/GBC games? A virtual console for the DS =

[Gollgagh]

Hmm, now that I think about it, if this thing can get hacked, I might consider it.

[I-n-j-i-n]

I think it probably has something to do with their E3. After they saw how much everyone hated it and was starting to lose faith in them (Myself not included), they took whatever product they were working on and quickly finished it up, aka the DSi. They probably had greater plans for it and were planning to release it in 2010 or so.

Then again...They are prepared to ship it in Japan on november 1, so I'm probably wrong, but still.

You might have a point, but somehow I still feel disappointed. So we get a new Warioware (for me a must buy), Mario & Luigi (must buy), Punchout remake (ANOTHER REMAKE), etc. It's still nothing really groundbreaking and just about all the new 3rd party games are music/rhythm/mini-game based... blah.

But about the whole GBA thing: I'm ripped too, but we had the same deal with the original DS and GBC games. We got over it. And again, the people who want to play those games that need the GBA slot likely already can, so complaining about a company pushing forward is weird.

Also, I don't care what Nintendo says: this is going to replace the DS. They said the same thing about the game boy, so no reason to believe them about this.

If that's to be the case, then strangely, the iPhone is a bit ahead of the game and the PSP (or the future PSP2) will be miles ahead by a year or two from now. The iPhone can already detect movement and tilt, apparently has better processing power than the DS, full touch capability, already has the niche with the 'cool kids' arena and Apple can become billionaires selling their little widgets and apps.

Really, I think their insane success with the casual gamers is... well... making Nintendo crazy. They're on a huge upswing the last few years, so I'd imagine they'd get down to planet Earth sometime soon. I mean, a camera? Web browser? OOOohh, a slightly larger screen... because we need the standard viewing aspects instead of the widescreen that's to be the future. I bet they're saving that up for the next one.

As for the hacking, if it makes hacking safer for the software/hardware than doing it with the current gen of DS systems, I might consider it too. Or maybe not... Way too much money in moderate increments of system functionality (except for the slight brightness and the lack of razor-edge of the first DS).

[Calpis]

I didn't read everything here but I'm just gonna bring up the fact that all this bitching happened just the same when they announced that the original DS wouldn't support original GB/GBC games. We'll all get over it someday and when that day comes, Nintendo will release DSi downloadable versions of all those GBA games we couldn't play on the DSi before at $15 a pop.

[VerSus22]

I had also thought: Download-able GB/GBC games? A virtual console for the DS =

Yes, I been thinking that should happen and hopefully it does!

[glasfen]

Certainly a contentious topic.

While many of we veteran gamers may feel slighted by the absence of classic franchise titles right now, I have to agree with many that Nintendo's emphasis is on new gamers. For we old codgers of button-pressing, they will continue to generate Virtual Console downloads and our Marios/Zeldas/Metroids/etc.. For the new "Touch Generation", they will probably produce mostly socially-oriented products (DSi) as well as modded or spin-off classics.

While it may be in Nintendo's best interest to cater to each side of the gaming world and schedule their major releases at a more even pace, they may have succumbed to the heckling of Apple, Sony, and Microsoft and are now straining to gain ground.

That said, if they survive (financially and creatively) to the next console generation, it should blow everything else away. If they've learned anything thus far, that is.

Personally, I think they will revive the Virtual Boy concept with Wii flare (and better graphics and memory).

[Overflow]

When you think about it, this phase of casual/innovation Nintendo is doing right now is almost like a massive experiment. Everything they made until the DS was almost entirely focused on "hardcore" gamers, but then they decided to start catering to the nongamers too. since the release of the DS and the Wii, Nintendo has more than succeeded in bringing in tons of people who would never normally play games, probably doubling their audience and having a ridiculous increase in revenue.

I have a feeling that Nintendo will continue down the path they're headed in terms of casual games with some hardcore ones every now and then. What this does is put the emphasis back on the fun of gaming rather than the seriousness of it. To most nongamers, video games are nearly synonymous today with games like Gears of War, GTA and Soul Caliber, all of which are games that are very intimidating and difficult, especially for people who never played games. Then, they decide to try the Wii, and really get into the simple games like Wii Sports, Play and Music. After some time with these games, they decide to up the ante a little bit, with games like mario galaxy and Zelda, slowly easing their way to becoming dedicated gamers who want deeper experiences.

This is the future for Nintendo as I see it: They will continue with this trend until about 2011, or until whenever they release their new console. It will likely have power close to or as good as the PS3, and an even more innovative control scheme. By this time, Nintendo will have a huge audience of the people I just described, and then Nintendo will turn 180º, and drop the casual games, instead returning to their roots of intense gaming since now they have a huge support for these games, and people who are almost guaranteed to buy them. THAT'S when Nintendo will become the true king of video games again, as now it is merely ahead in the race. If and when Nintendo makes it to the next generation, they will have made a crapload of money from the Wii and DS and can invest their time in making a very powerful piece of hardware that the once casual gamers will eat up because they are ready for it, having been weaned on Nintendo and becoming loyal to it's ease of play.

If this is their plan (Which it should be, IMO) then they are Genius. This strategy could very well make them THE video game company again, establishing their place in the market and being set to last another 10 or 20 years.

[The Pezman]

Let's also remember that the age of mainstream gamers keeps going down. Two years ago we were playing with GBA, sure, and we may still love the games. But the majority of gamers are not collectors who play as many great games as they can, and are willing to trade up every time a new generation system makes the scene. Supporting the larger cartridge is not only a space issue but a BIOS and software issue as well, and getting rid of it allows more resources to be put towards bettering other features.

[SirChadlyOC]

When you think about it, this phase of casual/innovation Nintendo is doing right now is almost like a massive experiment.

Nintendo actually does lots of stuff that are really experiments for new, upcoming hardware, but they are sold like real games:

Kirby Tilt 'n' Tumble

Hey You, Pikachu!

[The Damned]

So, the DSi music player is ACC only. Quality issues aside (a whole other argument entirely), there is something to be said about using the format that the vast majority of the world uses. Reggie says it's a simple conversion... which may be true for people with some knowledge and experience in doing so, but we're talking about the average person here. Most just slap music on the iPod and go with it. They don't know much about formats and conversion, let alone how to do it.

Then there's the battery issue. The battery life on a DS is one of the things that puts it over the PSP (again, DS vs PSP is another argument, let's just ignore it), so a drop in playing time is a bad thing.

I love my Nintendo portables, but the DSi is really starting to sound less and less appealing with every new detail.

Nintendo, just announce a new handheld next time, alright?

[Antipode]

I think the fact that it has the player features, the camera and the internal memory means that DSi-specific homebrew is going to be AWESOME.

[DarkeSword]

The sense of entitlement some people have in this thread is annoying as hell.

[zircon]

You're really blowing this out of proportion, zircon. Were you this upset when you found out the DS didn't have GBC support? "I need two systems and chargers to play Shantae and Meteos in the same trip WHAT THE FIG NEWTONS IS THIS MADNESS."

No, I was not upset, because the GBC was two generations behind at that point. I would have been upset if the GBASP didn't have GBC support, for example, or the DS didn't have GBA support. The DSi doesn't, and now I'm pissed. I really think people are underestimating the amount of people that don't buy the latest and greatest games. It's NOT just hardcore gamers. Why would Gamestop buy used, older consoles and games if no one bought them back? That business model would have failed miserably, but it hasn't. Many people don't have the money to constantly buy new, current-gen games and instead prefer to go for the last generation. Not all of America is middle class.

Darke, not sure if you're addressing me or not, but I don't feel "entitled" to GBA support... I just think it's a bad business decision on their part to remove it and it makes me an unhappy customer that won't be buying their new product as a result. Simple as that.

[Zombie]

I wont be buying the dsi simply because my ds doesn't really get much playtime anymore.

Will buy chrono trigger ds though, maybe that will change my mind.