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ChrisTheWriter

Cartoon Network "Real"

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Yeah, but I think that's because that's what we were watching when we were younger. And you know what? Late 80s/early 90s cartoons really don't hold up. I was the biggest TMNT fan when I was a kid. Absolutely loved it. Had the action figures, the toys, the whole nine yards. But watching it now is downright painful... the voice acting, the writing, the animation quality, everything is just worse than virtually any modern 'action' cartoon. Same goes for a lot of other series.

I have to agree with this, though I think there were some great cartoons in the mid-late 90's that still hold up. Reboot, Beast Wars, Batman, X-Men, and Spider-Man come to mind right now as ones that were enjoyable as a child, and stood out to me even back then for not treating kids like complete morons even if they did have their campy moments. And of course, some of this carried into the early-mid 2000's where we had shows like the remade TMNT, and Justice League.

There's been a fair few cartoons over the years that were not only among my absolute favourites as a child, but also held up over time because they didn't treat their audience like they were complete idiots.

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I dunno, even stuff like X-Men and Spider-Man had pretty poor production values and writing compared to modern stuff. Samurai Jack is in another league BTW, I don't even really consider that a kid's cartoon.

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I dunno, even stuff like X-Men and Spider-Man had pretty poor production values and writing compared to modern stuff.

I won't deny that, but I do feel it was a large step away from the stuff we watched in the late 80's and early 90's, and a step in the right direction if you ask me (except for the last season of Spider-Man anyway. Good god was that aweful).

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Yeah, but I think that's because that's what we were watching when we were younger. And you know what? Late 80s/early 90s cartoons really don't hold up.
I have several of them on DVD, and they're just as fun today as they were then. In fact, some of the adult humor (usually one liner references) in GI Joe and TMNT are hilarious and went unnoticed when I was a kid. Cobra's training camps look just like Al Qaeda/Quesadilla. Hilarious.

As for today's cartoons having superior artwork/quality, give me a break. Excluding animation ported from Japan, modern American cartoons are crap. Look at the artwork for these cartoons. They look like things I could draw, and I can't draw to save my life. The story lines are even more pathetic.

If it wasn't for anime masking the lackluster American offerings here in the states, you'd see modern Western cartoons as the crap they are.

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As for today's cartoons having superior artwork/quality, give me a break. Excluding animation ported from Japan, modern American cartoons are crap. Look at the artwork for these cartoons. They look like things I could draw, and I can't draw to save my life. The story lines are even more pathetic.

I think it's silly to say Japanese-style animation somehow doesn't count, but again, just WATCH an episode of TMNT. There is this great clip of Mike talking for 30 seconds while April, in the background, has literally two frames of animation. I mean, it's ridiculous. You would never see that in a modern cartoon. They have way better production values, and there is seriously no debating that. Just compare two side by side on YouTube.

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I think it's silly to say Japanese-style animation somehow doesn't count, but again, just WATCH an episode of TMNT. There is this great clip of Mike talking for 30 seconds while April, in the background, has literally two frames of animation. I mean, it's ridiculous. You would never see that in a modern cartoon. They have way better production values, and there is seriously no debating that. Just compare two side by side on YouTube.
One clip does not an argument make. Besides, I'm talking about the artwork style or lack thereof.

The technology has improved with frame count and smoothness. Yay. If the content, artwork, music, and story isn't there, I'll stick with the 80s/90s stuff.

This is true for much of today's movies as well. As a not-really-related aside, please tell me you didn't like Beowulf. I watched the last 30 minutes of it. Dreadful art and everything. Ugh.

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There are a lot of american cartoons that do have really horrible animation and backgrounds going on still, very true. But I don't see how comparing old cartoons to new ones now just on animation really does it justice in terms of this debate. This is about flat out quality of the show all around, but a huge part of that is originality and subject matter. And all this crap that cartoon network is shoving down our throat now has neither. Its rehashed america's funniest home videos/ghost hunters/survivor/etc. And since they cancelled off or are cancelling most of the great shows theyve had in the past and present, the only animation they will show will be up to the quality that they show on nick now, like that shitty speed racer one.

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Look guys, these are the people who cancelled Megas XLR.

These are the people who destroyed Toonami and replaced it with a flipper baby of an afternoon block.

These are the same people that let shows like Tim an Eric run loose and kill off quality programming.

Why any of you have been caring about this network for the past 3 years or so is beyond me.

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Megas XLR was stopped by the guys who made the show. They couldn't think think of anywhere else to go. And Tim and Eric is the best damn show on Adult Swim. But that's for another thread.

ANYWAY. This is where the leak comes from:

http://boards.adultswim.com/adultswim/board/message?board.id=3&thread.id=704645&jump=true

This douchebag is getting his information from "a friend of a friend." Why is everyone taking this shit seriously?

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Andy, while I agree with you on TMNT, that's not entirely indicative of all 80s/90s animation. Look at anything that was on the Disney Afternoon, like Ducktales or Tailspin. I recently sat down at watched Darkwing Duck with my 13 year old brother (I have the entire series on DVD); he'd never seen it before, but he immediately remarked on the fluidity of the animation in comparison to what he's grown up with.

Also, even putting my obvious comic-book-nerd-bias aside, nothing really holds a candle to Batman: The Animated Series, and by extension, Superman: The Animated Series.

A lot of old stuff doesn't hold up, but a lot of it still does. There was just as much good and bad as there is now.

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A big issue with the whole "production values" and "fluidity of animation" lies in the simply fact that a LOT of catoons are simply done in flash these days, and it's MUCH more cheap and easy to animate things (especially more busy crowd scenes) thanks to things like flash.

It's almost lazy animating.

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A big issue with the whole "production values" and "fluidity of animation" lies in the simply fact that a LOT of catoons are simply done in flash these days, and it's MUCH more cheap and easy to animate things (especially more busy crowd scenes) thanks to things like flash.

It's almost lazy animating.

Yes and no. Flash is still relatively new. While it doesn't hold a candle to classic cel animation, I believe the really good stuff is to come in about ten years. Case in point: Superjail is done entirely in flash and its the most fluid cartoon since Tex Avery. Plus, its cheap as hell to make. That studio shits gold.

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Yes and no. Flash is still relatively new. While it doesn't hold a candle to classic cel animation, I believe the really good stuff is to come in about ten years. Case in point: Superjail is done entirely in flash and its the most fluid cartoon since Tex Avery. Plus, its cheap as hell to make. That studio shits gold.

pfft no way, superjail has to be hand-drawn

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I personally think more video game cartoons should be made which can in turn, bring more remix attention here. Any takers?

Now THAT'S a concept I can get behind, 100 per cent... just as long as they aren't all based on the games that are light on story, like Pac-Man or something like that.

Actually, come to think of it, wasn't there a Pac-Man cartoon show at one point or something? Maybe that's just something my overactive imagination created in my head, but I could've sworn I once saw an episode of a show like that.

...but back on the topic: I'd love to see if someone could get a video game company like Square-Enix or EA or someone like that to consider making a cartoon spin-off of a couple of their games, even if they're just anime and end up on Adult Swim.

Which, by the way, I believe that's a huge hole in the scheduling at CN - the fact that they bill themselves as a "kid-friendly" network requires them to air most of the better cartoons that are still actually in production after 10 pm (central time). I'd almost like to see the network split in two different directions - 1 network become tv shows for kids 17 and younger, and the other network more adult oriented, allowing it to not only have shows like TMNT and the Thundercats (which are, I believe, classified as "children" shows because of their lack of intense graphic violence, language, sex, etc.) but also filling the holes with "adult" shows like Family Guy, Superjail, anime, etc. The children's network could still play around with reality shows if it wanted to, but the new, adult network could play classic cartoons, current cartoons, and anime, without finding itself forced to fill holes by playing the same infantile show four times a day.

EDIT: This, by the way, was what I originally thought they were trying to do with Boomerang.

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The only possible/logical rationale I can come up with for Cartoon Network deciding not to run the plethora of cartoons from 80s/90s might be licensing? Someone can clear this up if they know more about it, but don't channels have to pay for a license to run a particular series for a particular period of time.

That's why HBO showed the Negotiator(granted it's a movie) non-stop for a month or so. Now, it is never on.

Maybe it's a financial issue, and the owners of those cartoon series charge too much? Again, I'm grasping on the licensing issue.

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I suppose it could be licensing, although I can't really see that being that big of a problem - not unless some of the owners of the cartoons were being really unreasonable about how much they expected to be paid for the right to use their cartoons. A fact that might point towards this being the case is how - especially lately - CN has been trying to produce as many of its shows itself, so that the network retains primary licensing over those shows and can show them as much as it likes?

Case in point: Total Drama Island/Total Drama Action

I do find it interesting how Boomerang - which is supposed to be "classic" cartoons - has a significant portion of its lineup consist of shows which are less than a decade old - The Powerpuff Girls, Dexter's Laboratory, Teen Titans, etc. - which, in my opinion at least, is far from classic. But perhaps it's because the majority of these shows were CN produced, giving them free range to play them as much as they like? (Teen Titans, of course, being the exception to that rule.)

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I don't know, but now all I'm thinking about is Gargoyles, and how the original creator can't keep making comics cause the license for it is too expensive, so you might be onto something there.

I haven't really watched CN much in years though, it has slowly been taken over by shows with obnoxious characters and/or art styles, to the point where now there's not much of interest for me to watch.

There was/is a Disney equivalent to Boomerang too I think isn't there?

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I'm sorry, but that looks like garbage to me. I can appreciate the hard work in having to animate, but it's not something I see myself tuning in for.

I don't mind flash animation. If it's done right, and has some form of style, I can't complain.

Of course, give me hand drawn animation ANY day.

And on a some what off topic question, does anybody know about Gennedy Tartakvosky's Vikings project? I've heard pretty much NOTHING about it now...

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"Rumors are a flyin’, fueled fooled by people who’ve lost their jobs mixed with some questionable decisions by the network… but..

NO CARTOON NETWORK isn’t changing its name. Not anytime soon anyways… they were gonna... But I think they’re reality show idea didn’t go as well as they had hoped (they bombed pretty bad), so… they’re kinda backing out of that idea. Yay for cartoons!

No, Flapjack isn’t cancelled. They haven’t even started airing our second season yet, which is the best yet. They just had us make up our schedules and budget for third season…"

This is from the creator of FlapJack's DeviantArt blog.

So disgruntled lay offs were the culprit in this awkward scenario? That sounds about right, but I wouldn't put it past Cartoon Network that if CN Real did marginally better, they probably would've pushed it down our throats alot harder.

Again, thanks for your input everyone. I've heard ALOT of interesting ideas coming from this community as I knew I would. Please, keep them coming and don't forget to continue the boycott:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=191217360303&ref=mf

I'm afraid we're not out of the waters yet.

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