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Garrett Williamson
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I'm of the opinion that a game should be you know finished and good before it's sold to people

if [game] comes out and is bad and then is patched into something great, [game] will always be a bad game in my mind

at least now patch come out regularly. I remember when patching was done trought floppy bought from magazine.

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I'm of the opinion that a game should be you know finished and good before it's sold to people

if [game] comes out and is bad and then is patched into something great, [game] will always be a bad game in my mind

Quoted for truth. And this is a big part of why I don't buy games anywhere near to when they come out.

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... how is it always a bad game if it's patched into a good game? In any case, I can't think of a single game that became good from a gameplay standpoint after it was patched. Usually it's the core elements of a game that make or break it.

The closest thing I can think of are MMO patches that work on a massive, elaborate scale and affect a huge percentage of the experience.

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If only a tiny percentage of people got to inferno, and those people had fun, then why wouldn't they buy the expansion? And again either way, the point is that the game was very successful despite the fact that it's online-only. That reinforces my point - vocal gamers represent a tiny tiny minority. There are lots of people still playing D3. The latest patches are actually pretty amazing.

Idk if it's a vocal minority that's hating on D3: many people spent 15 years waiting for a sequal to diablo 2, not a WoW-ish, Auction-House cop-out DRM-fest. Also, bots don't count as players :nicework:

EDIT

On a side note...

idk if this has been linked yet, but this I agree with ZeroPunctuation's assessment of the XboxOne AND the other next gen consoles.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/7417-Next-Gen-Buyers-Guide

Might go for a PS4 - but only if they don't follow in Microsoft's footsteps =p

Has any of D3's patches added randomization of dungeons and maps to the game yet?

Cause that's the whole reason I gave up on it.

The story was what killed it for me (Deckard Caine dying to butterflies and transexual Diablo. Yuck!). The gameplay was the 2nd point for me...couldn't even be assed to get to lvl60, let alone try out a 2nd character.

Edited by HoboKa
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Hey. This is a thread about Xbox One, not Diablo 3 or SimCity. It's alright to make a couple of points with those games as an example but let's not let the discussion get completely off-track. Let's table D3 and SimCity discussion in this thread. If you want to talk about those games, you can do so in their respective threads in the Community forum. Just do a forum search and you can find them.

E3 is approaching. Microsoft should be showing off a couple of games. Hopefully we'll get a look at Halo 5.

Edited by DarkeSword
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That reinforces my point - vocal gamers represent a tiny tiny minority.

With something like always-online (even if it's once-a-day), used-game passes, and kinect data-mining - because Kinect always being on is just used for that, data mining for advertisements - you have to think of how the majority is going to react, especially in a bad economy.

Are you telling me I have to pay new for a game each and every time? Why? I can buy used movies and books.

The thing needs to be connected to the internet all the time? Why?

And let's not forget Microsoft's precedent for releasing faulty hardware, or is everyone just sitting pretty on their third 360?

Especially when it's highly likely that it will be more expensive than the PS4 and WiiU, both of which have neither of those pitfalls.

The only people willing to buy in to this are the 360's core market, and not its total consumer-base. There will be the idiots who buy it for the COD and whatever, and they deserve whatever shit Microsoft and the game industry shove down their throats. But this machine doesn't have any sort of mainstream appeal, of actually broadening its consumer-base and making progress in the "console wars." Everything points to MS saying "we want to squeeze every last drop out of our core users." That's not a strategy for success - it's a strategy for decline.

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I really don't think we're talking about a vocal minority here. Most xbox360 owners are hardcore gamers. The casuals I'll guess own a wii or a playstation. Most of the time people getting pissed off on the internet amounts to nothing, but this is a pretty big shitstorm and actually a huge deal that will change consoles forever.

I don't think this is the end of the xbox I still think it will sell millions as I've said before, but I've seen shit hitting the fan before, and this seems like one of those times. (reminds me of the shitstorm when blizzard wanted people to use real names in the forums and their accounts, and they actually had to back out on that)

I think they can possibly lose a pretty large playerbase from this. Again, Most xbox users are hardcore gamers, the type who follow news and care about their games more than the casual wii sports, just dance player.

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Especially when it's highly likely that it will be more expensive than the PS4 and WiiU, both of which have neither of those pitfalls.

We don't know much about the PS4 yet. I don't think it would be good to assume it would be cheaper than the XBOne(they are similar in spec, and if anything, PS4 is rumored to be slightly more powerful). Nor would it be safe to assume that it is not doing the same thing Xbone is doing as far as semi-blocking used games or some sort of daily check.

Tomorrow should hopefully answer some of these questions

Edited by Crowbar Man
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Here's the thing about consumers and the products they buy. Take this from a business owner... people only care about something insomuch as it affects them. That is not to say everyone is SELFISH. You might be against "anti-consumer" products because you as a person value that cause, and it makes you feel good to support it. However, most people really don't care about this stuff. People on forums like this, or even larger sites like Reddit, are not at all a good representation of the majority of America. Most people do not buy (or not buy) things 'on principle', but rather because it fulfills a need. The Xbox One is a home entertainment device for the living room, obviously focused on games. People will buy it despite all the other issues if it fulfills that need.

It's like how there was so much outrage about Diablo 3 always requiring an internet connection. You would think that it would do terribly based on how many people online said they would never support it, and yet, it was a record seller. Likewise, all the people that rail against DLC are dwarfed by the people that buy DLC because it gives them enjoyment.

However, as a supposed business owner, you should know that if anything most Americans are also VALUE conscious. If they know that they can get something at a cheaper price, then they will gravitate towards that side of the aisle. If this weren't true, then used game sales wouldn't make up more than 50% of Gamestop's profit margins and PS3s would have been flying off shelves when it first launched. All Sony has to communicate to the average consumer is that you'll be able to play used games on the system(read to the average consumer: cheaper) and that you still have SOME type of ownership of the game you bought(i.e. can easily lend/give it to a friend, or sell it back), and Microsoft's gambit is done.

And as minor as many people here think it is(and regardless of if it IS a big deal or not), there are a lot of "average" American consumers who the minute you communicate the idea that Kinect is always on and can read everything placed in front of it down to a seemingly microscopic level, AND that it's transmitting that data to a console that is always online, all their "big brother senses" are going to start tingling.

It's true that this forum is only a microcosm of a subsection of gamers, but we're not talking about anything only gamers like us would ostensibly talk about(the industry, "hardcore" games, or game music); We're talking about things that specifically and very directly affect consumers of all types, and quite frankly, I'm a little offended that you would insult the general consumer's intelligence by making such a statement.

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However, as a supposed business owner, you should know that if anything most Americans are also VALUE conscious. If they know that they can get something at a cheaper price, then they will gravitate towards that side of the aisle. If this weren't true, then used game sales wouldn't make up more than 50% of Gamestop's profit margins and PS3s would have been flying off shelves when it first launched. All Sony has to communicate to the average consumer is that you'll be able to play used games on the system(read to the average consumer: cheaper) and that you still have SOME type of ownership of the game you bought(i.e. can easily lend/give it to a friend, or sell it back), and Microsoft's gambit is done.

I'm not a "supposed" business owner. I make 100% of my income from my businesses.

Yes, consumers are value-conscious, because it benefits them. My point is that consumers care about what benefits a product has for them. There's a reason why marketing 101 teaches to "sell the sizzle, not the steak", and there's a reason why so many commercials for seemingly-mundane products focus on the 'experience' that you will get from them. People don't care that Xbox One has 8gb of RAM and however many cores, they care about the gaming experience they'll get. They don't care about online connectivity and "the cloud", they care about how that will make it more fun for them. The opposite is of course true as well, if something would make the console LESS fun or a worse experience for them, they will respond by not buying it.

And as minor as many people here think it is(and regardless of if it IS a big deal or not), there are a lot of "average" American consumers who the minute you communicate the idea that Kinect is always on and can read everything placed in front of it down to a seemingly microscopic level, AND that it's transmitting that data to a console that is always online, all their "big brother senses" are going to start tingling.

It's true that this forum is only a microcosm of a subsection of gamers, but we're not talking about anything only gamers like us would ostensibly talk about(the industry, "hardcore" games, or game music); We're talking about things that specifically and very directly affect consumers of all types, and quite frankly, I'm a little offended that you would insult the general consumer's intelligence by making such a statement.

If you don't want to believe me, that's fine, but this is how the world works. These are basic immutable business and marketing principles that are understood and accepted by basically anyone selling products. Why do you think boycotts are so very rarely effective? How do you think companies like Electronic Arts can make so much money and be so successful despite the perception among gamers that they're the worst company in America? It's because at the end of the day, they're still offering products that tons of people want to buy, at prices that people can afford, and which provide benefits that people want to enjoy.

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Microsoft's Keynote:

Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain: Looks cool, not a system exclusive, so it doesn't matter.

XBOX360 Super Slim: Meh. Sega Saturn.

World of Tanks: Free for the XBL Gold members on the 360. While I like that MS is trying to make the service we pay for better than PS+, it is a little too late. And also who gives a shit about World of Tanks?

Max: Is a Kinect(?) game starring McCauly Kulken. What could possibly go wrong?

Dark Souls 2: Don't care about a game with artificial difficultly.

Ryse: Son of Rome is God of War set in Rome. Cept even more Quick time events.

Killer Instinct: Looks rad, would love to see more of it.

Sunset Overdrive: Only pre-rendered cut scenes. Cool concept though.

Forza 5: Has some really cool ideas. Problems abound with pre-rendered and photo modes and a less than spectacular in game race. Still, really cool ideas.

Minecraft: FUCKING FINALLY I CAN PLAY THIS ON XBOX ONE!

Quantum Break: To quote Ryan on this one: "This game looks like a game based on that Nickelodeon movie Clockstoppers."

D4. I missed D3. Also wasnt D2 a survival horror game? I dunno what to think of this. Looked meh.

Spark: Microsoft's answer to Little Big Planet. Also Smart Glass is a WiiU Tablet. Nice try Nintendo.

In between Spark and the announcement to do away with MS Points, the one guy playing Killer Instinct made a rape joke.

Crimson Dragon: New Panzer Dragoon game. Cool! No sound. Bold choice to advocate deaf rights.

Dead Rising 3: Looked rad as fuck. Only it seems to be more geared towards gritty than b-movie like its predecessors. I don't like that.

The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt: Skyrim clone. Nude Mermaid. Game of the Year.

Battlefield 4: Runs really good on the Xbox One, we swear! Also I have never seen such vivid shades of brown.

Halo (5): Runs at a blistering 60FPS. Halo has finally caught up with the 2007s.

Titan Fall: Looks actually really cool. Though I don't like the whole COD HUD.

Xbox One's Price Tag: $500 - HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. That is a good one.

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The opposite is of course true as well, if something would make the console LESS fun or a worse experience for them, they will respond by not buying it.

you mean something like preventing them from using it without a constant internet connection

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Yes. If someone doesn't want to buy it, it won't be because it's "anti-consumer", or on any kind of principle, it's because it will personally inconvenience them, decrease value, make for a worse experience, etc. Again people are motivated by their own needs.

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I woke up right before this conference was going to start and chose to go back to bed. Not because I wasn't interested at all, but because I knew it would be summed up nicely like Brushfire has done a few posts back. And because I was super super tired still for some reason.

Dead Rising 3 was something I was expecting to be announced and the screenshot I saw looked cool. I'm trying to find video of the conference now, anyone help? :3

I'd want to buy Dead Rising trilogy on PC though.

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You know, I'm sure there's a catch somewhere, but the idea of getting access to free games simply because I already have the gold membership for the 360 is fairly appealing. That being said, my bulldozer full of cash is a little low, so I don't think I'm getting the Xbone anytime in the next year or two. That price point hurts, especially when you consider that accessories and games would add about $150 bucks, at the very least.

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