OCR01458 - Chrono Trigger "The Place We Knew"

[jeffrey6283]

Simply beautiful.

The only issue to me is that the piano seems to overpower the vocals at some points. This is probably just an opinion of my own, since its not even that big of an issue for me. Still, it's quite enjoyable. Almost makes you want to see a cutting-edge remake of Chrono Trigger done with this.

[apoc]

I thought this mix was so-so. The multi-language thing worked okay for me, but it would have sounded better if the Japanese sounded more natural. I'm uni-lingual myself, but when I study other languages, I'm extremely picky about my accent (and can hear them well)...so maybe it's just a personal thing.

The other thing that concerned me (which is also more personal than technical) is that it didn't seem like remix to me. I guess I've only heard the SPC track, but I suppose I expected a bit more. One mix I compared it to was Harmony's Dragon Song, which I thought was an incredible example of how vocals should be done in a remix. Again, these are just personal tastes and I'm sure there are many who would disagree. But to me, this sounded more like a mainstream performance piece and less like an experimental remix.

You can't complain about the quality though! Very crisp sounding and a great production.

[Jillian Aversa]

But to me, this sounded more like a mainstream performance piece and less like an experimental remix.

That's because it was. We didn't intend it to be an experimental remix. Looks live you haven't been around very long on the boards, so I don't know how much music on this site you've heard, but there's a slew of other performance-oriented mixes here. Not everything has to include computer elements, or be written for a full band etc.

Still, if you liked Dragon Song (which happens to be one of my personal favorites on the site as well), you might want to try FF10 'Journey's End', another mix I sang for in a different sort of setting.

I can't say that my Japanese was flawless, but I have been studying it for quite some time now (first at Boston University and now at Johns Hopkins), and performed in Japan last summer. I'm very particular about accents as well, as a classical vocalist and lover of languages, so I'm a little surprised you thought it sounded unnatural. My teachers here actually went out of their way to compliment the accuracy of my accent, in speech *and* in music, and they are usually quite strict.

Perhaps some of the unnaturalness you're hearing has to do with the recording constraints. Reuben originally wrote this piece for solo piano, which is why the melody is doubled throughout the song. It was challenging to then *add* my voice on top of what he had already recorded, because normally the pianist follows the singer in performance, not vice versa. I had to basically memorize the places he stretched time.

Of course, I'll never sound like a Japanese-born person, but I think this is about as close as you get for a foreigner. (That being said, I'll never stop striving to improve. ^_~)

For all those who felt the Japanese was awkward for artistic reasons, I actually have to somewhat agree. As much as I love the language, switching back and forth from English was a little strange, especially since the text means the same thing in both languages. Still, it's Claado Shou's project, and he thought it would be a nice approach for the final track, since a lot of movies end with bilingual pop ballads. It was also meant as a sort of tribute to the original composers.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, everybody!

[nikstar]

I've been waiting so long to see this remix on OCR. I downloaded the Chrono Symphonic right when it premiered. This song really caught my attention, it is a great piano and vocal mix, to say that the song isn't up to its potential because there isn't one part that grabs you is ridiculous. This song is great from beginning to end, it doesn't need a climax to play beautifully through and through. I am not a musician nor a Chrono Trigger soundtrack fanboy, but this song is a great rendition and at least worth one listen by everyone. Great remix.

[PlastikBag]

And to those of you who liked the orchestra version of "To Far Away Times" (as it is called on Chrono Symphonic), maybe you'll like the remastered version on the upcoming Special Edition of Chrono Symphonic, too.

[MSL]

Hmm...well I'm one of those extremely picky people when it comes music even though my music aint perfect either, I know how hard it is to make something of this recording quality considering that you added your voice on top of the piano.

However, I feel like for something as epic as To Far Away Times, that it missed the big climax in the middle where the main melody is and you just enjoy while it takes you places. I feel like this piece didn't take you far, even though it's real good quality and your vocals are nice.

I didn't really mind the lyrics at all. I really don't pay attention to lyrics really lol. I pay attention to the background music and I feel that there could have been more added to Reuben's piano arrangement. I felt it stayed close to the original and there were just some slow parts here and there, but nothing completely mind-blowing, but that's also because I feel that this song shouldn't be a piano arrangement, but orchestral, because an orchestra gives you a more full effect and if you added strings and woodwinds with some brass on top of the piano arrangement you have here, Reuben, then this would be a killer arrangement!

Another thing, the fact that there were vocals bothered me because I do admire original works more than arrangements, so that's a personal thing. I didn't mind your voice at all. I think you have a lovely voice Pixie.

I hope no offense is taken to any of you, but it's just how I feel and I do admire this work a bit considering the amount of effort you put in it.

Obviously, you made a great amount of people happy with this arrangement and that's what matters the most! Am I right?

-MSL (Michael Scott Levi)

[Navi]

the fact that there were vocals bothered me because I do admire original works more than arrangements, so that's a personal thing.

not to derail the thread but huh? can you clarify on this one?

[Bummer]

the fact that there were vocals bothered me because I do admire original works more than arrangements, so that's a personal thing.

not to derail the thread but huh? can you clarify on this one?

He's like me I guess. Sure, vocal remixes are nice to hear and to see some new creativity among remixers, but personally I prefer remixes without vocals. In that way, you can enjoy more of the music and listen closer to it since there isn't a voice in front of it.

I think that's what he meant.

[q-pa]

Very beautiful, Rubin & Pixie .

I think it would have been cool to bring back the main Chrono Trigger theme at the end, like the original does. But for whatever reason the theme is really underplayed not just in this song but all of Chrono Symphonic.

The Japanese parts do feel unnaturally rushed, but it does spice things up little.

Sorry about the nitpicking; Again, Nice Work.

[Karth]

IMO, anybody who likes original works better than arrangements should go somewhere else. This is OverClocked - an unofficial game music arrangement community.

Which brings me back to the matter at hand: this song you've collaborated on is one of the most pleasant arrangements I've heard on OCR. An excellent job by you both, Reuben and Pixie.

The linguistic switch mid-song surprised me, but I actually liked it, in contrast to some of your reviewers (not that I fault them for it). Your voice, Pixie, glides effortlessly across the entirety of the audible spectrum, regardless of the language in question. The sound you produce reminds me of Evanescence's Amy Lee in terms of general aesthetics, which is definitely a good thing. Simply splendid.

As always, Reuben, to hear the cohesive effort of your polished digits and the similarly polished ivory keys of your piano is an emotionally uplifting experience. You have not produced any material to date which I did not find altogether masterly, artful, and enjoyable.

My only nitpicks, minor though they may be, are as follows: first, the syncopation on the word "faded" seems slightly forced - a forgivable offense, considering that the lyrics were designed to work bilingually; second, the frequent changes in tempo occasionally make the vocals seem rushed, though Pixie does such a masterful job of following your lead that this is hardly an issue.

Of course, I give due credit to Claado Shou, Compyfox, and EvilHead for their respective roles - each one of them crucial - in the production of this fine piece of euphonious literature.

Taken as a whole, this piece is absolutely beautiful. I applaud the both of you for your combined efforts on this lovely and powerful submission.

[The Unsung Plumber]

Again I say, Jill can sing. Her voice and the piano tied together very well. And I am learning how to speak japanese and it is cool to hear it.

10/10

[jessthemullet]

Wow. Just wow. The vocals in this gave me chills the first time I heard it. Very good song.

[Upthorn]

I downloaded this song because of a comment someone made in the Lover Reef review thread about "no Japanese" this time.

I really, really enjoyed the arrangement, and pixietricks can definitely sing damn well. But when it got to the part in Japanese... it hurt me. It hurt my heart.

I was surprised at how few pronunciation problems there were, (although there were one or two, such as failing to hold a long vowel for the extra syllable length). No, what hurt me was the Japanese translation.

While this is certainly far beyond the abilities of anyone I studied Japanese with in school, it still isn't good. I understand that certain liberties must be taken when trying to match the translation to a certain rhythm, however, most of these errors don't fall under that.

let's compare for a moment

dokoka/ame to aki matsu no mukou/inaka no yuki ni/anata mitsukeru

(Somewhere/Beyond the rain and autumn plains, the snow/That litters the countryside/I find a piece of you)

(Somewhere/Beyond the rain and the end of autumn/In the countryside's snow/I find you)

dokoka/kotta hara no mukou, atashi/mijimesa musabi/shiteta dokoro ni

(And somewhere/Beyond the frozen fields, I clearly see/The end of our misery/A part of the place we knew)

(And somewhere/Beyond the stiffened fields, I/miserableness [musabi]/In the blace we did)

I've underlined the errors and retranslated the lines as they are back into English.

In the first line, most of these errors can be written off as artistic license in trying to fit the translation to the same rhythm as the English. (Although there is one grammar error: missing 'no' after aki).

However, once we look at line two, things get a little less ... coherent.

first problem is easy. "kotta" means stiffened. "kootta" means frozen. second problem: complete lack of any word meaning see, find, or anything. Third problem, mijime is a noun already, though "aware" would serve better. Problem four is the huge one. musabi is not a word. It is not a conjugation of any word I can find. It is not a plausible typo or mispronunciation of any conjugation of any word I can find in any dictionary.

Then, "shiteta" should be "shitteta" and "dokoro" should be "tokoro".

There's more, and I'd be happy to explain (especially to the person who did the original translation wants help making corrections, or just improving their knowledge). But I don't want to come off as overly critical, and I've spent far too long on this as it is.

[Jillian Aversa]

Wow, really, Upthorn? I'm surprised to hear this. Evilhead did the translation, and I was under the impression that he is fluent in Japanese, as he lives and teaches there. Is it possible that some of the language he used was simply more archaic?

[Upthorn]

I see. Most of my knowledge of Japanese comes from translating anime as a hobby, so it's quite possible that he's been exposed to some non-dictionary vocabulary I haven't. "Musabi" was the only word that wasn't easily identified.

Several of the mistakes I'm seeing could easily be the result of learning vocabulary 'by ear' instead of by book. (This could also explain "musabi", although I still have no idea what it's supposed to mean).

[Edit]This could also easily be the result of 2chan's typos corrupting his written vocabulary.[/Edit]

There is a very small chance that "musabi" is archaic, but none of the rest of the song is, and I can understand some classical Japanese, myself, so I'd guess there's a different source for that. (Maybe a word he's only seen in kanji?)

There are also a few basic grammar errors (wo instead of ga, and vice versa), but those are much easier to make.

The thing that I find interesting, considering that this translation was also done by Evilhead, is that Ocarina of Time 'Prayer' has far fewer problems like that, just one or two less commonly used words, and one "wo" where a "ga" should be.

[Jillian Aversa]

The thing that I find interesting, considering that this translation was also done by Evilhead, is that Ocarina of Time 'Prayer' has far fewer problems like that, just one or two less commonly used words, and one "wo" where a "ga" should be.

Hmm, well, the original poem for Prayer was also much more straight-forward, and allowed for a little more rhythmic freedom. Ah well.

[meccaneer]

Ummm... Pixie... yer voice is purty.

[Fray]

A vocal remix of To Far Away Times? Can I get a "hell yeah"? Ruben's piano backing is gorgeous too. This one is pure gratification for me

[TheNuDeal]

I enjoyed this remix in that the vocalist did her best with what she had to work with. I'm not sure if I would have chosen the same words in Japanese or the same pronounciation as the lyricist. I also agree with those previous comments that the song didn't carry much of the emotion as some of the best remixes on the site.

One thing that helped me when listening to the song was emphasizing bass clef as much as possible. I felt that the song was romantic, in both definitions of the word, around 1:20 to 1:50 and 2:15 to 2:35. I definetely thought of Chrono and Marle and only after doing a bit of reading I knew that this was what I was supposed to be feeling. However the end of the song left me questioning Chrono and Marle because I felt there was no closure (even though the song may have just been nostalgia at what we already know).

kage wo meidashitara

kangaeru dake wa

shioreta nozomi doko ni

I found the line above to be the best performed. There were other phrases that felt right, and of course there were a few that I had to work through before they sunk in (read singing aloud messing with counter-tenor, tenor, etc... voices).

They only word I still have trouble with is mitsukeru and the context with which the verb may be used. I've never heard it or used it in the context of the 'translation'. Instead I usually see "mitsukeru" used in some of the following examples:

mitsukeru- I will [and want to] find you.

mitsuketa- I found you! (imagine 7-year old hide & go seek)

mitsuketteiru- I find you (in the act of)

mitsukerareta- I was found

I think that it is either a) Marle found Chrono or Marle finds Chrono at this very minute (which you'd probably use past tense anyway). However it doesn't fit exactly in Japanese. In English I find it romantic, but I have to change the translation in Japanese to keep the romanticism. If I change the Japanese, then we're saying two different things in the song.

I hate being trapped. ^^;

--------------

In reply to upthorn. I feel that you don't need to take the English context of the posessive into the Japanese の [no]. Not everything is "something's" or "of". I can see the artistic license of some derivative of "in the snow-filled countryside" being inaka no yuki ni instead of the English posessive "in the countryside's snow". An example is 背広のビンラディン [sebiro no binradin], which would be "Bin Ladin in a business suit" (from an Yomiuri article). Now if we just think about the English posessive it would be "business suit's bin ladin" or "bin ladin of business suit". That doesn't make for very good English does it? We have to think of context before equating English grammar to Japanese gramar.

---------

Oh yeah, first post or something. I didn't think I'd ever make a review post.

[Upthorn]

In reply to upthorn. I feel that you don't need to take the English context of the posessive into the Japanese の [no]. Not everything is "something's" or "of". I can see the artistic license of some derivative of "in the snow-filled countryside" being inaka no yuki ni instead of the English posessive "in the countryside's snow". An example is 背広のビンラディン [sebiro no binradin], which would be "Bin Ladin in a business suit" (from an Yomiuri article). Now if we just think about the English posessive it would be "business suit's bin ladin" or "bin ladin of business suit". That doesn't make for very good English does it? We have to think of context before equating English grammar to Japanese gramar.

I am very familiar with the importance of context in Japanese. I am also intimately familiar with the "[clothing]の[person]" type of construction, and my solution to maintain accuracy of translation both gramatically and spiritually would be something along the lines of "Business-suited Bin Ladin"

But, by my knowledge, and your own example, "snowy countryside" would be 雪の田舎(yuki no inaka), whereas "田舎の雪" would come out to "countryside's snow" or "countrysidy snow". Also, I wasn't particularly criticising that phrasing, though the full Japanese translation of "snow that litters the countryside" would be 田舎をちらつく雪 (inaka wo chiratsuku yuki).

Although this is irrelevant, because as I said in that post, "In the first line, most of these errors can be written off as artistic license in trying to fit the [Japanese] to the same rhythm as the English."

What I was saying about の is that, while in English "of" could be left off before fall, in Japanese の cannot be left off after 秋 in that context.

PS: mitsukeru in the correct tense as used in that line you mention, however "kangaeru dake" is an incorrect (inverted) usage of "dake", and rightly, it should be

"'shioreta nozomi

doko ni' dake (wo) kangaeru"

or

"kangaeru mono wa tada

'shioreta nozomi doko ni'"

[TheNuDeal]

We seem to agree on most of the same words, but stress different amounts of importance to them. I should not have brought this up without noting that first. Just like I would never use the present tense of some verbs such as mitsukeru, and you would never see the imagery of inaka no yuki ni. Oh well. I hate feeling trapped by one language or another.

[mrp]

Impressive, relaxing vocals. Great work with the piano here as well. I've had no problems with keeping this remix set under 'Repeat' in my audio player.

*thumbs up*

[HBCyBeR]

Hello there;

I just wanted to drop by and tell the composers that to me, this remix is nothing short of awesome. It is beautiful, just beautiful. I don't care if it's supposed to be off-beat, or if the japanese is somehow incorrect; this track is so good to me that, under the appropriates cicumstances, it makes me freakin cry, no kidding. I play it to help me purge some emotions from time to time. If the people behind this track are reading this, i'd at least want you to know that you have truely touched at least 1 person with this masterpiece. Good job.

[Rumina]

Hey long time lurker here, heard Death on the Snowfield when it came out long ago and been addicted to this place ever since. Felt like commenting on this song. Bear with me if I say something stupid since I've never critiqued music before .

Regardless of some people's complaints about poor translation. I have to say you did a real good job with pronunciation and it sounded very authentic. There's very few native english speakers that can speak it that well much less sing it that well. I really don't see how some of you feel her vocals sound unnatural. These 'errors' are also quite small and while everyone here aims perfection the performance was well executed.

With that said overall it's a pretty good song. The pace may be irregular kind of fading out on occassion then fading back and giving the feel that the songs not going anywhere but it's a cool effect for this piece I think and just works well on a piano. Near the end the pace starts speeding up and becomes louder, I find this to be the high point of the song if anyone was looking for one. Usually people need to be weary of vocals in music like this as they tend to turn out pretty goofy but pixietricks brings some very proffesional vocal talent to Reubens incredible piano work. Very nice work guys, I can't wait to hear what you two do in the future.

[Faduger]

Well simply because thers a beautiful voice and a master pianist makes this a memorable mix. Well all bad aside my own personal reasons for liking the song are simple, one of my favorite midi mixs is to far away times. Piano is my favorite instrument and ruby always does a great job with it. Learning this song through a midi player on the piano then hearing it with vocals just makes it that much more special. Jill has a very unique voice to my ear. The soft touch makes the concern and thoughts overwheming. The japanese just makes you wanna learn more which listening to songs like this will definately make it a future goal. Endless happy thoughts continue each listen. The more the better, nice job.