ectogemia Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 This makes me wonder: has anyone ever tried a pure production compo before? For instance: The organizer provides a MIDI, and participants are not allowed to change or remove any notes (though possibly notes could be added?), but they can do anything else they want. Slap on a bunch of top-quality samples and synth patches, and it won't be much of a contest D: But there are mastering and mixing contests out there fairly similar to what you're talking about where you're given poorly mixed music, and you have to fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted July 29, 2013 Author Share Posted July 29, 2013 True, true. As I said before, 'sall about tipping points between the axis of arrangement and production. Commensurate quality of each is ideal. but production is super important, youguiseLadies and gentlemasters, I'd like to point out that we just successfully completed a debate on the internet without slinging a single shit-word or ad hominem premise, a first for all of mankind. Remember where you were this day, because people will ask about it years from now. Hey, fuck you man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ectogemia Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Hey, fuck you man. I know a guy who got in a fight once. Don't make me call the guy I know who got in a fight once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow24 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I know a guy who got in a fight once. Don't make me call the guy I know who got in a fight once. His name is Robert Paulson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghetto Lee Lewis Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Slap on a bunch of top-quality samples and synth patches, and it won't be much of a contest D:But there are mastering and mixing contests out there fairly similar to what you're talking about where you're given poorly mixed music, and you have to fix it. There's a lot more to mixing and mastering than simply using good samples. Listen to how much louder my song is this week than everybody else's (and yet still clean sounding, as far as separation goes; yes I know I have some filthy sounds in that mix). That's 8 hours of work just on final mix down and mastering between Jason and me. Having said that, this was an amazing week for quality entries; and I was quite surprised to find my song had one of the weaker arrangements for this round, unfortunately. I still think some of the things I did were rather clever, however. I mainly wanted to try a style that I've never done before, and I'm quite satisfied with the end result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ectogemia Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) There's a lot more to mixing and mastering than simply using good samples. Listen to how much louder my song is this week than everybody else's (and yet still clean sounding, as far as separation goes; yes I know I have some filthy sounds in that mix). That's 8 hours of work just on final mix down and mastering between Jason and me. Oh, yeah, I agree, but that being said, high quality sounds out of the box are *necessary* for the best possible production value. The point I was really trying to make, though, is that some people don't have access to high quality samples or synths, so by default, they'd be at a disadvantage in such compos because there's only so much you can do with free sounds, at least as far as production and polish goes. That's not to say you can't make amazing music with free sounds -- just look at Phonetic Hero, Theory of N, Hylian Lemon, Ben Briggs, etc. -- but for a hypothetical compo FOCUSING on sound quality, it's sort of a bum deal for free-sound types. And as an aside, I know my track isn't as loud as a lot of others, but that was intentional to preserve the dynamics of the muted trumpet solo. Didn't wanna compress my track too much and poop all over that automation and velocity business I spent so much time on ;o I guess I could have bused everything else but the trumpet and compressed it a bit, but meh, dunno if that'd sound very good. Just turn up the volume a bit on my track and enjoy the beauty of unsquashed transients Edited July 29, 2013 by ectogemia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghetto Lee Lewis Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) That's not to say you can't make amazing music with free sounds -- just look at Phonetic Hero, Theory of N, Hylian Lemon, Ben Briggs, etc. -- but for a hypothetical compo FOCUSING on sound quality, it's sort of a bum deal for free-sound types. If you were involved in FLRG (Fl Studio Remix Gauntlet), you'd understand that a very skilled engineer can make something amazing with limited tools, like the examples you gave. And as an aside, I know my track isn't as loud as a lot of others, but that was intentional to preserve the dynamics of the muted trumpet solo. Didn't wanna compress my track too much and poop all over that automation and velocity business I spent so much time on ;o I guess I could have bused everything else but the trumpet and compressed it a bit, but meh, dunno if that'd sound very good. Just turn up the volume a bit on my track and enjoy the beauty of unsquashed transients Using tons of compression is neither the best nor most effective way to maximize volume. The main trick is getting things to sound big with proper EQ, harmonic excitation, etc. Of course there are techniques to using compressors properly while still preserving the dynamics and character of an instrument. Unfortunately some of these techniques are very advanced and typically require years of training and experience, along with meticulous monitoring(through spectrometer analysis and very careful listening) and tweaking. And on another note, the genre I was going for this week is typically very loud, and so you can get away with a lot more brutal mixing techniques than you could mixing a jazz or orchestral piece, for example. Edited July 29, 2013 by Ghetto Lee Lewis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ectogemia Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Wanna expand on the harmonic excitation? I've fiddled with the one I have in Ozone some and I know it's basically just a multiband distortion unit used to saturate frequency bands, but I'm not sure how best to apply it in mastering situations. EDUCATE ECTO. His name is Robert Paulson! His name is Robert Paulson! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_NutS Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 I have been using less and less amounts of compression on my masters for a while, and it has been for the better, to the point where my master compressor rarely reaches more than 2db gain reduction. usually sits below 1. My masering process is very minimal nowadays, and it's more about adjusting very small values to tighten the mix up. Do most of the work on your mix instead of your master and stuff will sound 100 times better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghetto Lee Lewis Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Wanna expand on the harmonic excitation? I've fiddled with the one I have in Ozone some and I know it's basically just a multiband distortion unit used to saturate frequency bands, but I'm not sure how best to apply it in mastering situations. EDUCATE ECTO.His name is Robert Paulson! Jason is really the expert on harmonic excitation and Ozone (he uses the professional edition). I basically just throw FL blood overdrive onto things (it basically works on everything, in moderation), and then I cut the unwanted frequencies with EQ. Another way to apply harmonic excitation is by looking at a sound in a spectrometer (FL Parametric EQ 2 has this built into it), and cutting the frequencies that are the most dominant. This will naturally boost all the harmonics and subharmonics. I have been using less and less amounts of compression on my masters for a while, and it has been for the better, to the point where my master compressor rarely reaches more than 2db gain reduction. usually sits below 1. My masering process is very minimal nowadays, and it's more about adjusting very small values to tighten the mix up.Do most of the work on your mix instead of your master and stuff will sound 100 times better. You sir, have hit the nail on the head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 My mastering process is very minimal nowadays, and it's more about adjusting very small values to tighten the mix up.Do most of the work on your mix instead of your master and stuff will sound 100 times better. Same here. The only thing I really do on the master is a very mild high pass at 30Hz to get a little bit of headroom, some lightly applied parallel compression just to tame any wild waveforms a little, and a simple limiter. You shouldn't need to do more on the master to get your mix to sound good if the mix already sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_NutS Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 If you want a bit more insight, I'll go over my current process of doing things but be warned that mastering isnt something that can be put down as a set of rules, and it will vary from song to song. However there are some things that I've found to generally work for me. So it goes like this -I keep my Main Mix Bus levels at around -6 to -8 db. Sometimes I may get lazy and allow it to bounce around -10, but I always make sure my mix peaks around that range. -I make sure my mix sounds good before the mastering. Don't leave anything to be fixed in the mastering process. Fix your mix instead. -I export my mix (because I do mastering in Sonar, Reason mastering tools aren't satisfactory for me), Load it in sonar. -Load the mix in sonar, then I apply very small amounts of tube saturation. This is again personal preference as i like how it warms up the sound. Keep in mind that these are VERY tiny amounts. - I loop a loud section of my song, then watch for peaks. Adjust my compressor threshold for each compressor band (I usually use 4) so that it detects the loud peaks, then apply very gentle compression ratios so I get slight gain reduction levels. Then I adjust the make up gain to compensate accordingly. Try not to get rid of the very important drum transients while doing this. -At this point I may apply slight stereo separation on the high frequencies, and even smaller amounts on the mid-highs. I may also apply some kind of reeverb. Again, I'm talking about VERY small amounts. -I A/B my mix. at this point, all the small tuning should have produced a warmer, tighter sound. Finally, I limit to 0db and export. I never apply eq on my masters. It always leads to chasing my own tail. My track should be EQd correctly before the master. I mix low, master loud. Huge benefits to work this way. A few years ago, my mastering process was akin to me placing my song on an anvil and hammering it until it took shape. That shape was always messy. Nowadays, it's more like using a very small pencil to add detail and refinement to an already good looking painting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Nice words Sir Nuts. Really amazing talent in this competition. Due to irl BOLLOCKS and rather than unfairly vote only on what I've heard so far, I will be abstaining from voting for this contest unfortunately. I will DEFINITELY be listening to all the tracks for the competition in the next few days. Congrats to everyone. I really haven't heard one crap submission (apart from my own). Well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KgZ Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Wanna expand on the harmonic excitation? I've fiddled with the one I have in Ozone some and I know it's basically just a multiband distortion unit used to saturate frequency bands, but I'm not sure how best to apply it in mastering situations. EDUCATE ECTO.His name is Robert Paulson! Generally I find that harmonic exciters are used to balance between different mixes of other tracks (aka mastering's original purpose). But, If you have Ozone Advanced, the greatest thing ever is harmonic exciter mid/side. If I'm feeling special I'll raise the side of mid freqs and mid highs if I want a fat, wide as hell mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orlouge82 Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Congrats to everyone. I really haven't heard one crap submission (apart from my own). I actually really liked your entry. Yeah, maybe the arrangement and production could have used a little polish, but it has certainly been an enjoyable song for me to listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troyificus Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Congrats to everyone. I really haven't heard one crap submission (apart from my own). Seriously? Did you listen to mine? I'm extremely determined to make my next entry extra awesome to make up for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 Thanks Orlouge. I'm extremely determined to make my next entry extra awesome to make up for it Gotta start somewhere right? It's good just to jump in and get your feet wet. I wish I had nerves of steel but after 30 years I realize it ain't gon' hap'n. Gotta make crappy mixes on the way to becoming solid. The competition is great for getting over it. I only lament that I didn't start sooner. Cheers ... to getting better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjjD Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 (edited) *ahem*...be prepared for the hardest round of the Hard Men. That is all. P.S. Also, SuperiorX, this signature is friggin' awesome. Edited July 29, 2013 by DjjD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindWanderer Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 the figured bass representation of the triad chord scale (playing the scale in order where each tone is the root of a triad) would be I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-viio where a capital is a major traid, a lower-case is a minor triad, and the o means it's a diminished triad.I'm sad to admit that this is complete gibberish to me. My formal musical training literally consists of Music 101 taken... oh, about 16 or 17 years ago now. And a children's book featuring Mr. Eegybeedyef at least 30 years ago. Other than that, I pretty much just move the notes around until they sound good.However, thanks for the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_NutS Posted July 29, 2013 Share Posted July 29, 2013 *ahem*...be prepared for the hardest round of the Hard Men.That is all. P.S. Also, SuperiorX, this signature is friggin' awesome. You stole my stone man, so you better do great. OR ELSE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadix Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 You stole my stone man, so you better do great. OR ELSE. It definitely takes some stones... you know... being one of the Hard Men. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phonetic Hero Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 You stole my stone man, so you better do great. OR ELSE. He sent some tracks that he's using for inspiration, and if those are any indicator, I'll say you won't be disappointed, especially given your... proclivity, shall we say, toward a certain style of music Also, even though Dustin is sick of The Moon, you better believe he's bringing the goods this week Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_NutS Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I'm always looking forwards to Dustin's stuff. I wonder what this tendency of mine is. I think I've branched out quite a lot in these compos (except for that GRMRB where all I did was spacesynth) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTiger Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I wonder what this tendency of mine is Nutsynth.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirby Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 That was a hard vote to make. So many good tracks this week :3 fantastic work from all~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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