Phonetic Hero Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) You're missing the point here, because I never said that your intro mustn't be engaging or have a purpose. My point is that judging a song just by that will lead to a misjudgment sooner or later. As I said, it's true that most songs you can tell right away if they're going to be bad or good, however there are cases that the song will have a weak start and finish really really strong (as I explained was the case with one of the first round mixes).Since we're not just listening to song on their own, but comparing it to others to decide a vote, we need to have a complete understanding of the choice at hand, and as I said a song with a weak start CAN have a strong overall performance that can also trump other songs that may have a constant quality through the song's course. I feel you'd be doing a disservice to the creators and the competition as a whole not to asses an informed judgement. I could say that YOU'RE missing the point, but I don't think either of us are. I'm bringing out the other side of the argument and pointing out the aspects of it that you would seem to be overlooking, just as you thought I was overlooking your standpoint. I'm not including one of the aspects of the argument for my personal standpoint, because that's how an argument works haha, I argue my point, you argue yours (neither of us are obligated to argue both sides). I was just bringing out pieces of the counter to your argument, and pointing out that this approach has merit in my opinion, as does yours. Nobody's right or wrong here. I also never said I personally only listen to a track for [x amount of time], because I listen through all of them at least once. If I DID take the 30 second approach though, I don't see it as disrespectful. 30 seconds is a lot of time, and while you don't have to get to the meat of your track in 30 seconds, the first impression is important, especially in a competition EDIT: An unfortunate consequence of all this is that, if you're interested in winning votes, genre really does matter. Folks around here seem to like dubstep, rock, and chiptunes mostly. If you go with classical or something unusual like spaghetti western, you need to come up with a piece that's of significantly higher quality just to get the same number of votes. Most people just don't have the sample power or access to live players to pull something like that off. Believe me, I'd be writing way more in-depth orchestral stuff if I had the power to do so, but all I have (aside from my ethnic stuff, flutes, drums, etc.) are a couple halfway decent samples of a string ensemble and a brass ensemble from a VERY watered version of Kontakt. That stuff's expensive, and most of us just don't have the means to make the end feasible. As we've mentioned, you're apt to get more variability out of a decent synth (MUCH cheaper than good sound libraries, and in some cases, free) than a crappy stock string or brass sample Edited July 31, 2013 by Phonetic Hero Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) Where do you come up with this stuff buddy? KgZ is probably one of the best all-around producers in this contest. He's an extremely talented Berklee grad and has tons of prestigious credits to his name. Also his music is off the wall, so you might want to give him the benefit of the doubt with his approach. In the big time, you'd be lucky if you could get a record exec to listen to your track for more than 10 seconds. Is it right? Maybe not, but it's how the game works and its super important to get your listeners attention right away. I actually tend to be pretty bad myself at getting to the point. If the piece\band is good I'll listen to that stuff all the way through all day. This also doesn't mean you have to start your piece off hard, you can have ambient stuff, just make it interesting. Though, I will also say depending on your genre a longer intro may be required, in those cases I'll jump ahead if I want to get to the meat. A great example of this is Octavarium and Trial of Tears by Dream Theater. No, I'm not comparing myself to him. Though he is one of the best producers in this competition, he isn't the best producer in this competition. I'm not going to say who it is, however, he still has room for improvement in production and arrangement, as does everyone. I bolded what my points earlier had expressed. I feel you'd be doing a disservice to the creators and the competition as a whole not to assess an informed judgement. +100 Give them more than 30 seconds. Give them the whole song. I know it's a competition, but if you listen to one great song fully and one almost great song partially, the almost great song will tend to seem "almost good" or "decent". Be fair. That is all. Edited July 31, 2013 by timaeus222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadow24 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/110617565/Megaman%20And%20Disney.jpg Look what I found On another note, if anyone wants a musical challenge then do a ska quartet rap song... Edit: Looks like Darke or another Mod already fixed it Edited July 31, 2013 by shadow24 MasterCeddy said so.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_NutS Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 I could say that YOU'RE missing the point, but I don't think either of us are. I'm bringing out the other side of the argument and pointing out the aspects of it that you would seem to be overlooking, just as you thought I was overlooking your standpoint. I'm not including one of the aspects of the argument for my personal standpoint, because that's how an argument works haha, I argue my point, you argue yours (neither of us are obligated to argue both sides). I was just bringing out pieces of the counter to your argument, and pointing out that this approach has merit in my opinion, as does yours. Nobody's right or wrong here. Now you're just messing with my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) <IMG>Look what I found On another note, if anyone wants a musical challenge then do a ska quartet rap song... Errrr that is stretching (thankfully only one part of) the page. You might want to consider shrinking it or linking it. you're apt to get more variability out of a decent synth (MUCH cheaper than good sound libraries, and in some cases, free) than a crappy stock string or brass sample Yep. Hard to believe, but sometimes I find (or make) synthesized E. Pianos, for example, that are more fitting to (or even better for) particular remixes of mine than an E. Piano library I have for Kontakt. Another example... a synthesized electric sitar I had created one day fit into my Yu-Gi-Oh ReMix better than EWQL Ra's electric sitar, after I tried substituting in both to compare. I remember zircon talking on KVR in 2007 about EWQL Ra's sitar not being all that great before working on Sitar Nation, but the fact is that it was sampled, and samples are *usually* better than synthesized versions. =) Edited August 1, 2013 by timaeus222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadix Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 (edited) No, I'm not comparing myself to him. Though he is one of the best producers in this competition, he isn't the best producer in this competition. I'm not going to say who it is, however, he still has room for improvement in production and arrangement, as does everyone. I bolded what my points earlier had expressed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENC5MEzrRp8 Edited July 31, 2013 by Shadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeSword Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 Less vote talk, more reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENC5MEzrRp8 That guy 10char Here are my reviews btw. Lights Out SuperiorX: Nice, you had a similar idea as me on the wah EP. I was gonna do a wah clavi, but I went with an EP eventually. I'm missing some of the tines frequencies, though, since you went for 100% mix rather than a 50-50 signal split. Mixing is generally good. Bass is a little muddy, and sometimes treble is ever so slightly too much. Integration of sources was pretty smooth. Nice slap bass and soft arp. Smooth atmosphere. From Dark to Light Sir_NutS: Nice, this is what I wanted to do at first, if I had a mic lol. Michael Jackson and Daft Punk influence, it seems. Ever so slightly too much reverb, not a big deal. No major EQ issues. Smooth mix. My only other nitpicks are probably that the vocals could have used some vibrato from the vocoding modulator to go the extra mile, and the vocoded tone is lacking a good amount of clarity (which, believe it or not, can possibly be better). Chilled Duck KgZ: May be just me, but I don't like it when leads sound like they're sidechained. Production is pretty smooth, though there is still room for improvement as there isn't much content above 16kHz aside from the middle section's lead. Preferentially, some leads could be improved tonally and frequency-wise, but I'm not bothered by anything else, other than the title. This isn't chilled. It's like, Party Duck. You know, if there was a Party Man. Spicy Icy ectogemia: Yeah, pretty funky, but to me more in the Blues Brothers sense than the Joshua Morse sense because of the brass section. Instrumentation was pretty cool, though some transitions were a tiny bit iffy, such as 1:17. For example, a way you could have connected the section at 1:17 and the section that came before it was doing a neck slide on the bass combined with a reverse and regular cymbal. Sometimes the organ note variations at the 1:17 section were written for the sake of variation rather than progressiveness (the result of just replacing old notes with speedier notes), so at times it didn't really flow. It seems you have a harmon mute there, which was EQed pretty well, actually. Other brass sequencing was pretty solid, and sources were used nicely. I liked your fretless bass, too. The Sky Demon Phonetic Hero: Brave effort. Staccato strings fell behind the tempo a bit. You didn't keep with the cinematic theme so much though, which was to your benefit ultimately. Some leads were a little buried, and attention was sometimes drawn away from the leads by the rapid drums for me. Chiptune section was just a bit too quiet in comparison to the other sections, but not a big deal. I tend to be bothered by sync leads sometimes, so don't mind that I didn't like its usage here. Groundpowuh therex: The only full chiptune track here. I'd say the notes are great. The only thing I'd suggest is a fuller atmosphere. Sometimes it feels bare, even for chiptune. If you want to use few instruments at times, I'd suggest you compensate with frequency distribution or reverb. Still a pretty well done arrangement. Ragebot Massacre Ghetto Lee Lewis: Sounds like you have a woofer on-hand. Reverb is a bit much on the low mids, and the saw leads are pretty grating sometimes, especially the supersaw-type of leads. Mixing gets pretty loud at 0:46. Some sounds are pretty cool. 1:46 is pretty neat, though the rising arp on the left was a bit rigid. Pretty heavy stuff, almost too heavy, but I'm sure you'll notice it. Burning Disaster Esperado: Pretty good effort. A little quiet, but still pretty cool. Transitions between sources are iffy. Oh hey, some CSD was gated and glitched. The instrumentation worked pretty well together too, good job. Dr. Wilyarty Stage 1 Hakstock: Oh yeah, really balls to the wall here. Noticeable overcompression. Good news is that I can hear the leads. Some instruments and sometimes the drums are buried by the reverb. Some leads could get more attention to detail, just preferentially. The Postman Always Rings Twice Parah Salin': Transitions were pretty iffy, but interesting use of sound effects to do so. Bass tone does not suit the notes it plays. Brass falls behind the tempo a little sometimes. Grime Mr. L: Slight timing issues in the EP, chill atmosphere. Tiny bit bare. Seems to doodle a bit sometimes, but pretty cool entry. I could kind of spot Moliarty's Tower, but it may be a bit too liberal in interpreting that source. Forceful Typhoon Tower Sterling Ortiz: Timings were off a lot, especially between the static bass and the leads. Lots of reverb decreases the clarity. Somewhat random source insertion. Good effort. A Fowl Knight Trism: Really loud frequency-wise and generally reverb-less, but giving you the benefit of the doubt. Nice arpeggios, and great energy. I think you paid a lot of attention to minor details rather well. Ending was strange though. Awkward silence, and then really loud and dry lead. Some stereo imaging is pretty cool, but because of the frequency overboosts, it isn't as cool as it could have been, but the gesture was there, so good job. Edited August 1, 2013 by timaeus222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. L Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Grime Mr. L: Slight timing issues in the EP, chill atmosphere. Tiny bit bare. Seems to doodle a bit sometimes, but pretty cool entry. I could kind of spot Moliarty's Tower, but it may be a bit too liberal in interpreting that source. Thanks for the review, timaeus! (The video I'll be referencing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G0x5YrMgCI) In case you were curious: That bass at the beginning is playing my attempt at a transcription of 00:14 - 00:20 of Pump Man's theme. The e. piano (which is the jRhodes3 soundfont, just in case you may have been curious) is playing Moliarty's Tower until 00:41. Afterwards, until 00:54, was my second attempt at transcribing Pump Man's theme (00:27 - 00:33) - that part didn't go so well - I tried to get 'most' of the notes. I try to combine little bits of the themes in the mean time. The breakdown is playing a part of Moliarty's Tower. Moliarty's Tower comes back at 01:53. I did change the timing of the some of the notes... so that probably made it harder to recognize. At 02:18, I used 00:46 - 00:53 of Pump Man's theme to end the song with Moliarty's Tower. At the time, it sounded like the two worked together all right, but I'm not quite as sure now. Once again, thanks for the review, good sir! Edited August 1, 2013 by Mr. L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the review, timaeus! (The video I'll be referencing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9G0x5YrMgCI) In case you were curious: That bass at the beginning is playing my attempt at a transcription of 00:14 - 00:20 of Pump Man's theme. The e. piano (which is the jRhodes3 soundfont, just in case you may have been curious) is playing Moliarty's Tower until 00:41. Afterwards, until 00:54, was my second attempt at transcribing Pump Man's theme (00:27 - 00:33) - that part didn't go so well - I tried to get 'most' of the notes. I try to combine little bits of the themes in the mean time. The breakdown is playing a part of Moliarty's Tower. Moliarty's Tower comes back at 01:53. I did change the timing of the some of the notes... so that probably made it harder to recognize. Sorry about that. At 02:18, I used 00:46 - 00:53 of Pump Man's theme to end the song with Moliarty's Tower. At the time, it sounded like the two worked together all right, but I'm not quite as sure now. Once again, thanks for the review, good sir! Looks like you knew your source well either way. Sometimes it gets hard to determine whether a source was interpreted just right or too much. I did get something privately rejected because it was too liberal, with unsaid comments that I surmise didn't call the production a dealbreaker (album-to-be track eval). I agreed with how it turned out, as I did variations too early. It could happen to anyone though! Also, that EP... killer. Trust me when I say that's one of the best EPs I've ever heard, especially in the low range. Edited August 1, 2013 by timaeus222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 From Dark to Light Sir_NutS: Nice, this is what I wanted to do at first, if I had a mic lol. Michael Jackson and Daft Punk influence, it seems. Ever so slightly too much reverb, not a big deal. No major EQ issues. Smooth mix. My only other nitpicks are probably that the vocals could have used some vibrato from the vocoding modulator to go the extra mile, and the vocoded tone is lacking a good amount of clarity (which, believe it or not, can possibly be better). I'd like to congratulate Nuts on his first ever vocal performance. Love the falsetto man. When I first heard it I fell in love with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MindWanderer Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Most people just don't have the sample power or access to live players to pull something like that off. Believe me, I'd be writing way more in-depth orchestral stuff if I had the power to do so, but all I have (aside from my ethnic stuff, flutes, drums, etc.) are a couple halfway decent samples of a string ensemble and a brass ensemble from a VERY watered version of Kontakt. That stuff's expensive, and most of us just don't have the means to make the end feasible. As we've mentioned, you're apt to get more variability out of a decent synth (MUCH cheaper than good sound libraries, and in some cases, free) than a crappy stock string or brass sampleMany folks have managed to get stuff posted to OCR using free orchestral samples. Nutritious comes to mind as someone who pulls this off masterfully, and you wouldn't even know they were free samples.However, I was referring to general quality. I've seen mediocre rock guitar win over very good classical pieces. All else being equal, choice of genre can help or hurt in the winning of votes. Which is to be expected to some extent--enjoyability is a valid voting criterion, and everyone enjoys some genres over others. I personally consider it unfortunate, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I agree that genre will have a direct effect on voting. For example, if someone hates hip-hop, it doesn't matter how awesome the track is, they ain't going to like it or vote for it. Someone's dislike for a genre really can't be blamed on the producer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnetic Ether Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 I agree that genre will have a direct effect on voting. For example, if someone hates hip-hop, it doesn't matter how awesome the track is, they ain't going to like it or vote for it. Someone's dislike for a genre really can't be blamed on the producer. Unfortunately. I would seriously urge people to try and enjoy new things instead of automatically dismissing something based on genre. Personally I'm not a big fan of hip hop, but I always give it a try if I hear it in one of these competitions (or anywhere, really) and I actually really like a lot of tracks, from OCR especially, that are in genres I don't usually care for. In fact I never say that I hate an entire music genre, because I seriously doubt that there you could find me a genre that I hate everything about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Don't get me wrong - I'll give any genre a go, but I know a lot of people who don't care for specific genres and as soon as they knew what kind of song it was, they sadly won't give it much of a chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garpocalypse Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Don't get me wrong - I'll give any genre a go, but I know a lot of people who don't care for specific genres and as soon as they knew what kind of song it was, they sadly won't give it much of a chance. If you don't like egg salad, You don't care about how good that one kind of egg salad is supposed to be ...'cause you don't like egg salad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnetic Ether Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Don't get me wrong - I'll give any genre a go, but I know a lot of people who don't care for specific genres and as soon as they knew what kind of song it was, they sadly won't give it much of a chance. For sure, that's who my response was directed at. Obviously people are going to have preferences, I just think it's a good idea to keep as open a mind as possible when it comes to music (...well and everything else ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingTiger Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 If you don't like egg salad, You don't care about how good that one kind of egg salad is supposed to be ...'cause you don't like egg salad! Of course, but this is art, not food. With art you should try a bit harder (imho). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 If you don't like egg salad, You don't care about how good that one kind of egg salad is supposed to be ...'cause you don't like egg salad! From this day on it will be known as the egg salad test Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParahSalin' Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Thanks for the review, timaeus222. I'll keep that in mind for the next round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troyificus Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 A Fowl Knight Trism: Really loud frequency-wise and generally reverb-less, but giving you the benefit of the doubt. Nice arpeggios, and great energy. I think you paid a lot of attention to minor details rather well. Ending was strange though. Awkward silence, and then really loud and dry lead. Some stereo imaging is pretty cool, but because of the frequency overboosts, it isn't as cool as it could have been, but the gesture was there, so good job. Yeah I somehow managed to miss that I had left a scrap piece of music at the end of the track when I rendered it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Guys.... I am intimidated to make my entry because it was gonna have live guitars... I don't want to be discriminated against or anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phonetic Hero Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Guys.... I am intimidated to make my entry because it was gonna have live guitars... I don't want to be discriminated against or anything... Don't fuck around Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Guys.... I am intimidated to make my entry because it was gonna have live guitars... I don't want to be discriminated against or anything... Just give up. Do teh technomangaz and ull get ur votez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jivemaster Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 So that's what I did wrong last time lol XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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