Broken Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 playing melee for the hell of it, and I just witnessed a comp fox pull off a successful edgehogdon't see that everyday There's been a big discussion about the computer getting smarter and learning things as you play more and more on Smashboards. The general consensus is that the computer has always done more advanced things (at lvl 9 especially), but players don't really notice it until after they have learned how to do those moves themeselves. Anyone else get jab-A'd of the stage only to realize they've lost their second jump? I'm glad no human opponent can do that because they would be able to gimp me to death. Well, at least there are still smash attacks -computer kryptonite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoss Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 I really hope they teach the AI how to do stuff like that; after a while, lvl 9's just don't cut it anymore for anything but serious practice. And most of the time, they fail even at that.--Jack Kieser Edgehogging is for fgts. If they ever 'taught' the AI to do it, I'd never play against computers again ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Edgehogging is for fgts. If they ever 'taught' the AI to do it, I'd never play against computers again ever. Yeah, it's never fun when you're on the recieving end. That's why I use peach! Edit: I personaly think the computer is too stupid to edgegaurd right anyway. Sure, it can pull off stupidly powerful combos if you give it the chance, but edgegaurding correctly requires a little more higher level thinking than the comp. can handle. I love making fun of the computer btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendlyHunter Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 With the heavy emphasis on "dodging" (i.e. getting out of the way of) things that haven't happened yet (e.g. charged smashes, Final Smashes, assist trophies and pokemon, items, etc.), I seriously hope they update the AI a LOT. Melee's AI is completely oblivious to any attack/items that humans find trivial to dodge - they're insanely easy to hit with Kirby's rock (and similar moves), the Kirby star item, etc.. If the AI in Brawl is still that limited.... well, I guess I won't be playing very often with computer opponents/partners =/ So, looks like Zero Suit Samus actually is a whole new character (and possibly even selectable; she's a new entry on the "characters" page). I'm definitely worried that regular Samus will be relatively ignored by the developers, despite the great-looking character model =[ Is anyone else kind of pissed that they're making up bizarre new stuff, while the plethora of perfect-for-smash content from the Metroid series is left completely ignored? Are they trying to avoid putting any kind of minor Metroid game spoilers in Smash Bros? Sometimes I wonder if the character and stage designers have ever played a Metroid game, or a DK game for that matter... Some are suggesting that Zero Suit Samus will have a final smash.... if you can only get 1 per life (or per match), then she won't have one, unless she's a selectable character. Aggh, they're not really giving us much new info with these updates, are they? That gun whip thing looks rather snazzy though - I wonder if there's a grapple beam upgrade in Metroid Prime 3 that looks like the whip? Here's some more pointless speculation/hopes that are soon to be stomped on: When Wario picks up opponents, I hope he can carry them with one hand above his head like in all the Warioland games - that would arguably top Game&Watch's juggling move If I'm not mistaken, DK is the only one who can carry other characters in Melee...? It'd be great if Yoshi and maybe Kirby could carry characters in their mouths... of course they'd then need to put in measures to prevent those characters from doing suicidal dives off the edge of the stage. As for DK's final Smash, it'll almost definitely involve barrels... possibly throwing barrels, barrel cannons, the barrel of a coconut gun.... My personal favourite idea thus far: Original DK arcade cameo! DK faces the camera and "laughs" (RRGH RRGH RRGH) before jumping around the stage, shaking the ground and tilting each platform as he lands, and then proceeds to toss rolling barrels at all the players. Actually, that DK arcade laugh would be perfect for his taunt =D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strike911 Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Edgehogging is for fgts. If they ever 'taught' the AI to do it, I'd never play against computers again ever. Solid logic, sir. Real solid. EDIT: The fact of the matter is that when trying to determine whether Zero Suit Samus is her own character, its nearly impossible at this point. Keep in mind that early on when Melee was first coming out they had shots of the character select screen with Sheik on it. . . remember? Those early promo shots? Yeah you do. And look what direction that went. Seriously, we don't know, my money is that she's a seperate character, but Samus happens to turn into her after a Final Smash, that's how you transform. No going back or anything. That's my guess, because I don't think they want her to be compared to Shiek from a transforming standpoint. I mean keep in mind, with the way tourney players are, IF getting Zero Suit Samus could only be done by getting a Smash Ball, then none of them would EVER play as ZS Samus. Ever. Of course, that brings up other issues with balance. If someone isn't good with Zero Suit Samus, or if she is "powered down" like Sakurai suggests, does the gain from using the Smash Ball (Giant laser) outweigh having to be Zero Suit Samus for the rest of the match? I suppose that's the other question though, are you Zero Suit Samus the rest of the match or just until the next time you die? There are so many questions I have!! lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Shadow Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 yeah FH the computer's AI is basically why i haven't touched this game in a year it's just no fun to play against at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shining Mirage Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Polter-Gust? That's just the thing... The process in Luigi swinging that damn vacuum out, I'd be guessing that'd be the first hit in which might register as a possible regular smash attack, sending an unlucky fool (in-close, mind you) careening vertically into the air, then turning it on to finish off the other players. If it is Polter-Gust, I guess it'll have some scale to the many pros and cons of every character. As long as they don't take out that flail attack that he had from Melee, I'll be happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoss Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Solid logic, sir. Real solid. I don't see how it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendlyHunter Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 It's illogical because you don't know whether the AI was "taught" edge hogging or not. If it indeed was, then you've gone all this time without noticing - why would you stop playing against the AI just because you have this new knowledge? (Theoretically speaking of course.) There are most likely other flaws in the logic.... and one could of course give analogical arguments as to why it IS logical, or at least makes some sense. Right.... I'm outta here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoss Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 It's illogical because you don't know whether the AI was "taught" edge hogging or not. If it indeed was, then you've gone all this time without noticing - why would you stop playing against the AI just because you have this new knowledge? I meant in Brawl, dumbass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
friendlyHunter Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Edgehogging is for fgts. If they ever 'taught' the AI to do it, I'd never play against computers again ever. The word "again" made me assume that it was Melee. And when I assume, it makes an ass out of you. Try being more careful with the name calling my friend =) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoss Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 The word "again" made me assume that it was Melee. That's because you're a dumbass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strike911 Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 That's because you're a dumbass. lol. So much for ending the name calling. teehee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal Zero Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 The computer isn't noteworthy at all in my opinion. They definitely could use a massive update in difficulty and strategy. Edit: Edgehogging is for fgts. If they ever 'taught' the AI to do it, I'd never play against computers again ever. Wait...so does that mean you don't play anyone decent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoss Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Wait...so does that mean you don't play anyone decent? No, it means I don't play against fgts. 'but bigboss tats wut they do in turnements!!1' I don't care. Tourny players are a bunch of whine asses anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 So, you only enjoy smash when playing a low level computer or people who are worse than you? Good job! And please stop name calling. It makes you sound unintelligent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKieser Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 That's exactly why the comp isn't good for play anymore, at least for me... no challenge. Yeah, I think edgehogging is crap too, but that's because: A) I can't do it well. It's efficient and good at what it does. So, it may piss me off, but it is something I should be prepared for, hence the AI needing to know some adv. techs. Out of curiosity, have any of you seen the CPU tech before, because I can't recall it happening to me; I don't play them enough. If not, they should be able to do stuff like that, but well enough so as to use them to their full advantage, like a human might do. Sure, I'd get frustrated, but at least it'd be a challenge. --Jack Kieser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoss Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 So, you only enjoy smash when playing a low level computer or people who are worse than you? Nope, I enjoy playing Smash when I play against people who can beat me by getting me to 150% and smashing my ass into the borders, instead of using the cheapest move they've got and dropping me down into doom. These are also the kind of people who enjoy playing with items and on levels, instead of constantly bitching when I pick somewhere other than Final Destination. Because that's where it's easiest to pull off all their cheap tricks. Dumbass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKieser Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 That's like your favorite word, isn't it? Although I admit, it rolls off the tongue well... Just don't get those "right way to play" guys going again. No one wants that. --Jack Kieser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoss Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Nope, it's simply the best word to describe those "right way to play" guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jam Stunna Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 No, it means I don't play against fgts.'but bigboss tats wut they do in turnements!!1' I don't care. Tourny players are a bunch of whine asses anyways. Even my brother used to edgehog, and he's never been anywhere near a tourney. Ir's just sound strategy if you're trying to win, items or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Nope, I enjoy playing Smash when I play against people who can beat me by getting me to 150% and smashing my ass into the borders, instead of using the cheapest move they've got and dropping me down into doom. These are also the kind of people who enjoy playing with items and on levels, instead of constantly bitching when I pick somewhere other than Final Destination. Because that's where it's easiest to pull off all their cheap tricks.Dumbass. So, people who play the exact same way you do. Good for you. If someone can edge gaurd you and you will die every time they do it (because you're too complacent to learn how to avoid/escape it), you believe that that same person can't just beat the shit out of you until you're at some insane percentage and then just use a smash attack? Please, people are just trying to save time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenucha Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 I enjoy no weapons and combo-ing the crap out of someone using the levels design to my advance Favourite fighter being Luigi followed my Falco and Zelda/Sheik. Unfortuantly my friend whom I used to play all the time with on the N64 (he used Kirby) is still without this title and hates how much Kirby has changed (and has since moved to Pichu)... So I do alot of 3P lvl 10 CPU matches... boo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBoss Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Even my brother used to edgehog, and he's never been anywhere near a tourney. Ir's just sound strategy if you're trying to win, items or not. Yeah, and me turning right around, going the wrong way in the track and smashing every car I can see until they can no longer move in racing games makes me win as well. But it's still a faggy thing to do. So, people who play the exact same way you do. Yes, the non-fgt way. If someone can edge gaurd you and you will die every time they do it (because you're too complacent to learn how to avoid/escape it) It's difficult to escape when you're playing against someone who's built their entire strategy on putting you into positions that you can't escape it from. At which point the game becomes less fun than frustrating, at which point they become fgts for putting vicotry over fun in a video game. you believe that that same person can't just beat the shit out of you until you're at some insane percentage and then just use a smash attack? Yes, because they have to resort to edgehogging. Any player good enough to beat someone by actually playing the game has no reason to cheap it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eulogic Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 Nope, it's simply the best word to describe those "right way to play" guys. Aren't you advocating your own "right way to play" by denying that edgehogging is a legitimate strategy? Haha, BigBoss, you're so whiny. I don't edgehog people because I know my friends don't like it, but if someone edgehogs me, I don't whine about it like the bitch you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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