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If anything, I think Boo definitely needs to be a character. He could have all kinds of tricky attacks where he vanishes and reappears. He would be a great jumper, but lacking in traction. Since he can't do much with his scrawny hands, lots of his attacks could involve his oversized tongue

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I'm a tourny player from smashboards. I've never posted on these forums, but to clear up which chars are bad/good in the current game:

Official tier list

Top:

Sheik

Fox

Marth

Upper:

Peach

Falco

C. Falcon

Samus

High:

Jigglypuff

Doc

Gannon

Mario

Ice climbers

Mid:

Luigi

Link

Roy

DK

Pikachu

Zelda

Low:

Ness

Young Link

Yoshi

Kirby

Game and Watch

Bowser

Bottom:

Mewtwo

Pichu

Of note-This list is now a year old so some character placements are conisdered to be innacurate by most tourny players. Ice Climbers are considered to be far higher; Peach and Falco are now considered mostly top tier. Any other changes are up for debate in the smash community.

It's considered not possible to be competitive with anyone below Gannon, excluding the climbers.

I myself main Bowser, luigi and Samus so I don't do too well in tournys. My best memories would probably be beating Sheiks and Marths with Bowser.

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That list is huge load of BS. All the characters in SSBM are extremely well balanced. I've seen Kirby's kick the living shit out of Sheiks of the same fighting ability.

I play as Link and I do very well against all the characters.

Its all about knowing your character and exploiting everything you can. I personally think Sheik is a fairly bad character. No real long range stuff. His attacks are all mainly short range attacks. His speed can make up for it, but even when you switch to Zelda, the long range capabilities are highly under par.

Like wise, Mewtwo has some really good mid and long range attacks, as well as very strange movements (which definitely work in your favor). Overall its like I said before, its all about how you handle the character. Even Pichu (who I notice is at the very bottom) has a HUGE advantage (hes the smallest character. Good luck trying to hit him). Even though he accumulates damage every time he attacks, he is fast, small, and fairly powerful for his size, and that speaks volumes about what he is capable of.

Plus how can Marth and Roy be so far apart? THEYRE FRIGGIN CLONES!!

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That list is huge load of BS. All the characters in SSBM are extremely well balanced. I've seen Kirby's kick the living shit out of Sheiks of the same fighting ability.

I play as Link and I do very well against all the characters.

Its all about knowing your character and exploiting everything you can. I personally think Sheik is a fairly bad character. No real long range stuff. His attacks are all mainly short range attacks. His speed can make up for it, but even when you switch to Zelda, the long range capabilities are highly under par.

Like wise, Mewtwo has some really good mid and long range attacks, as well as very strange movements (which definitely work in your favor). Overall its like I said before, its all about how you handle the character. Even Pichu (who I notice is at the very bottom) has a HUGE advantage (hes the smallest character. Good luck trying to hit him). Even though he accumulates damage every time he attacks, he is fast, small, and fairly powerful for his size, and that speaks volumes about what he is capable of.

Plus how can Marth and Roy be so far apart? THEYRE FRIGGIN CLONES!!

No, it's actually bullshit for an entirely different reason.

They are pretty much 100% correct in saying that the characters are tiered.

The problem is that they adhere to this.

The game is meant to be played for fun, fuck the smashboards level of dedication.

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That list is huge load of BS. All the characters in SSBM are extremely well balanced. I've seen Kirby's kick the living shit out of Sheiks of the same fighting ability.

I play as Link and I do very well against all the characters.

Its all about knowing your character and exploiting everything you can. I personally think Sheik is a fairly bad character. No real long range stuff. His attacks are all mainly short range attacks. His speed can make up for it, but even when you switch to Zelda, the long range capabilities are highly under par.

Like wise, Mewtwo has some really good mid and long range attacks, as well as very strange movements (which definitely work in your favor). Overall its like I said before, its all about how you handle the character. Even Pichu (who I notice is at the very bottom) has a HUGE advantage (hes the smallest character. Good luck trying to hit him). Even though he accumulates damage every time he attacks, he is fast, small, and fairly powerful for his size, and that speaks volumes about what he is capable of.

Plus how can Marth and Roy be so far apart? THEYRE FRIGGIN CLONES!!

No, it's actually bullshit for an entirely different reason.

They are pretty much 100% correct in saying that the characters are tiered.

The problem is that they adhere to this.

The game is meant to be played for fun, fuck the smashboards level of dedication.

Amen

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That list is huge load of BS. All the characters in SSBM are extremely well balanced. I've seen Kirby's kick the living shit out of Sheiks of the same fighting ability.

I play as Link and I do very well against all the characters.

Its all about knowing your character and exploiting everything you can. I personally think Sheik is a fairly bad character. No real long range stuff. His attacks are all mainly short range attacks. His speed can make up for it, but even when you switch to Zelda, the long range capabilities are highly under par.

Like wise, Mewtwo has some really good mid and long range attacks, as well as very strange movements (which definitely work in your favor). Overall its like I said before, its all about how you handle the character. Even Pichu (who I notice is at the very bottom) has a HUGE advantage (hes the smallest character. Good luck trying to hit him). Even though he accumulates damage every time he attacks, he is fast, small, and fairly powerful for his size, and that speaks volumes about what he is capable of.

Plus how can Marth and Roy be so far apart? THEYRE FRIGGIN CLONES!!

No, it's actually bullshit for an entirely different reason.

They are pretty much 100% correct in saying that the characters are tiered.

The problem is that they adhere to this.

The game is meant to be played for fun, fuck the smashboards level of dedication.

Amen

The beauty of SSBM is that it's a highly accessable, enjoyable experience for anyone, but at the same time there are enough quirks and secrets to it that it can also be a pretty serious tournament-level game. It's not one or the other, it's both, and that's what makes it so great.

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When in high school, we would occasionally have parties with all sorts of gaming and food and dammit I want to do that again.

Anyway, there was always the Halo corner, the 2 PS2 guys, and the Cube corner, plus some Starcraft guys [this was a computer programming class mind you], but that another matter entirely. I would always play some Halo, then get bored of dying to the absloute perfection that was Tucker and Patrick [i think], then play some Smash with the cube guys. When I played smash, I was untouchable. Literally. Samus doesn't take prisoners.

My favorite moments have to include the only time someone wanted to go one on one with me. I went as Fox and they were Ganondorf. They were in the air about 90% of the time and I took a total of about 40 damage by the round end 5 minutes later [time match].

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I'm a tourny player from smashboards. I've never posted on these forums, but to clear up which chars are bad/good in the current game:

Official tier list

Top:

Sheik

Fox

Marth

Upper:

Peach

Falco

C. Falcon

Samus

High:

Jigglypuff

Doc

Gannon

Mario

Ice climbers

Mid:

Luigi

Link

Roy

DK

Pikachu

Zelda

Low:

Ness

Young Link

Yoshi

Kirby

Game and Watch

Bowser

Bottom:

Mewtwo

Pichu

Of note-This list is now a year old so some character placements are conisdered to be innacurate by most tourny players. Ice Climbers are considered to be far higher; Peach and Falco are now considered mostly top tier. Any other changes are up for debate in the smash community.

It's considered not possible to be competitive with anyone below Gannon, excluding the climbers.

I myself main Bowser, luigi and Samus so I don't do too well in tournys. My best memories would probably be beating Sheiks and Marths with Bowser.

Yup, Ice Climbers should be much higher. I used to play competitively a few years ago in local tournaments (won most of the smaller ones) and only used Ice Climbers, my best character(s). Their smash attacks are freaking good.

My best characters are:

1. Ice Climbers

2. Ness

3. Sheik

However, I do much better when there are items turned on. My best game comes from throwing items, as I'm pretty good at gauging where to throw them to hit people. Some of my favorite moments involve hitting a character across the screen until they are flung far off the arena, and from all the way on the opposite side flinging an item and timing it just right so it hits them when they're trying to jump/float back. Makes me chuckle thinking about it. :lol:

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I'm a tourny player from smashboards. I've never posted on these forums, but to clear up which chars are bad/good in the current game:

Official tier list

Top:

Sheik

Fox

Marth

Upper:

Peach

Falco

C. Falcon

Samus

High:

Jigglypuff

Doc

Gannon

Mario

Ice climbers

Mid:

Luigi

Link

Roy

DK

Pikachu

Zelda

Low:

Ness

Young Link

Yoshi

Kirby

Game and Watch

Bowser

Bottom:

Mewtwo

Pichu

Of note-This list is now a year old so some character placements are conisdered to be innacurate by most tourny players. Ice Climbers are considered to be far higher; Peach and Falco are now considered mostly top tier. Any other changes are up for debate in the smash community.

It's considered not possible to be competitive with anyone below Gannon, excluding the climbers.

I myself main Bowser, luigi and Samus so I don't do too well in tournys. My best memories would probably be beating Sheiks and Marths with Bowser.

Yup, Ice Climbers should be much higher. I used to play competitively a few years ago in local tournaments (won most of the smaller ones) and only used Ice Climbers, my best character(s). Their smash attacks are freaking good.

My best characters are:

1. Ice Climbers

2. Ness

3. Sheik

However, I do much better when there are items turned on. My best game comes from throwing items, as I'm pretty good at gauging where to throw them to hit people. Some of my favorite moments involve hitting a character across the screen until they are flung far off the arena, and from all the way on the opposite side flinging an item and timing it just right so it hits them when they're trying to jump/float back. Makes me chuckle thinking about it. :lol:

The problem with tiers is that they discount alot of stuff, such as items, banned stages, etc. With items on, Mewtwo becomes one of the best characters. The tiers are good to have only if you feel like you absolutely have to quantify the performance of certain characters under "tournament" conditions, which is not how most people play.

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Yeah, ever gone up against Luigi with an umbrella? I became so infamous with the umbrella in my circle of friends that when an umbrella spawned, they would drop everything just to chuck the umbrella off the edge. :P

Also, MewTwo with a beam saber is SCARY.

My main gripe about 'tournament' play is that it always seems to end up being a 'Final Destination only' arrangement. They say it's more "fair", but of course it really isn't. I can appreciate having a couple of stages banned (Game&Watch and Pokefloats come to mind), but ALL of them? That's just silly.

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Have I posted here before? It's been so long since I've Gendisced...

My tops:

Jigglypuff

Link

Kirby

I've played so many inexperienced players that I've taunted, I've accostomed myslef primarily to the Puffs (though being an avid LoZ fan helps). I can play with most characters fairly well though.

My bottoms:

Ice Climbers

Captain Falcon

Ness

Tiers: Yes. Utterly unfair tiers: no. Jigglypuff giving a better or equal dedicated Sheik a run for her money, priceless. For everything else, there's Homerun Bats.

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I'm a tourny player from smashboards. I've never posted on these forums, but to clear up which chars are bad/good in the current game:

Official tier list

Top:

Sheik

Fox

Marth

Upper:

Peach

Falco

C. Falcon

Samus

High:

Jigglypuff

Doc

Gannon

Mario

Ice climbers

Mid:

Luigi

Link

Roy

DK

Pikachu

Zelda

Low:

Ness

Young Link

Yoshi

Kirby

Game and Watch

Bowser

Bottom:

Mewtwo

Pichu

Of note-This list is now a year old so some character placements are conisdered to be innacurate by most tourny players. Ice Climbers are considered to be far higher; Peach and Falco are now considered mostly top tier. Any other changes are up for debate in the smash community.

It's considered not possible to be competitive with anyone below Gannon, excluding the climbers.

I myself main Bowser, luigi and Samus so I don't do too well in tournys. My best memories would probably be beating Sheiks and Marths with Bowser.

Yup, Ice Climbers should be much higher. I used to play competitively a few years ago in local tournaments (won most of the smaller ones) and only used Ice Climbers, my best character(s). Their smash attacks are freaking good.

My best characters are:

1. Ice Climbers

2. Ness

3. Sheik

However, I do much better when there are items turned on. My best game comes from throwing items, as I'm pretty good at gauging where to throw them to hit people. Some of my favorite moments involve hitting a character across the screen until they are flung far off the arena, and from all the way on the opposite side flinging an item and timing it just right so it hits them when they're trying to jump/float back. Makes me chuckle thinking about it. :lol:

The problem with tiers is that they discount alot of stuff, such as items, banned stages, etc. With items on, Mewtwo becomes one of the best characters. The tiers are good to have only if you feel like you absolutely have to quantify the performance of certain characters under "tournament" conditions, which is not how most people play.

Agreed. The tournaments are NEVER as fun as just playing with my friends and messing around.

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i wonder if in Smash Bros 3, how much balancing will be done to eliminate tiers. It would be so nice to see those people that swear by tiers have to eat it when they play as Fox/Marth/Shiek and get their asses handed to them from Bowser...

*sigh*

hopefully they fix that. Since its going to be online, i'd imagine balancing will come often. ^_^

so my guess is no more tiers, or atleast it would be WAY MORE difficult to say if there were tiers or not.

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It's all about personal preference. People have different ways of having fun. If you just play casually and not-too-serious, you can't knock the high-competition people just because they have strict rules and tiers and shit.

At the same time, though, if you are a tourney player and you get your kicks by only playing with 5 characters and 5 stages and using no items and whatnot, you can't knock other people's playing style because they don't take the game as seriously as you do.

Bottom line is let people play the damn game however the hell they want to play it. Just don't try to force your opinion of what is and isn't fun on other people.

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I agree its all about having fun.

But serious, sometimes i get envyous for seeing people speedrun Metroid Prime, or anything. Like, wow, these people know games, they actually go to great lengths to discover every glitch etc. Like, wow where does that come from?

So, I too, would love to be better at games, because sure I have fun, but if you could actually understand games more and become better at them, maybe the fun will be even bigger.

Still, for Smash Brothers, its more fun to fool about and toss items and generally beat eachother randomly, rather than it being a one sided match againts a friend who happens to be the best ever player 0_0

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I have always been partial to Young Link, but I'll use any character. I mostly play for fun, but when my friends want to play a little more seriously I usually come out the victor, but most of them don't even own the game, so really it's not a challenge.

I like to let my opponents play with every character, with me only using one, and after they find out which character they like the best and which one they think is the worst (I think only two of my friends are undecided, as they have only played a couple of times), then I let them choose who they agree is the worst character and I play as that character. It adds a nice touch of difficulty. The all know that I am terrible with Ganondorf, so when I let them pick my character they will usually pick him.

Oh, and I never let my girlfriend pick the rules when we play, she turns items on very high, turns off all but the Pokeball, and sets it to Stock 99. I lose every time.

I feel like playing now.

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All the tiers do is show who is better when you fuck with the game settings. If you leave them on the original default, and have it pick random levels, everyone is equal. That's why when me and my friends play, we have a rule that everyone has to pick random characters every match but the last match. The last match we call the All Star match, and that's the one where I get the untouchable Dr. Mario (obviously).

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I'm all for Roy. Him or Mr.Game&Watch.

Something I never really got about the game is how the unlockable characters are often worse than the characters they're clones of. Jigglypuff is Kirby only without the moves that make Kirby worth having in the game, Young Link is Link without the reach, Ganon is Cap'n Falcon only even slower and clunkier and Luigi...well, I just don't like Luigi. And neither should you.

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I'm all for Roy. Him or Mr.Game&Watch.

Something I never really got about the game is how the unlockable characters are often worse than the characters they're clones of. Jigglypuff is Kirby only without the moves that make Kirby worth having in the game, Young Link is Link without the reach, Ganon is Cap'n Falcon only even slower and clunkier and Luigi...well, I just don't like Luigi. And neither should you.

Jigglypuff has stronger attacks (a la one-hit-kill sleep attack)

Young Link is damn fast and his spin attack pulls you in for extra damage. Link's spin attack pushes you away.

Gannon is slightly more powerful and a lot heavier (which effects how far you can be thrown and how fast you fall).

Luigi is taller and slightly more powerful.

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Also, MewTwo with a beam saber is SCARY.

As is Peach. When she pulls out a saber on a no-items match, everyone runs ;).

I personally can say that tiers only really matter in high-level tournaments. I used to think I was good at this game when I played my friends. Then I came to college, and there's one kid here (undoubtedly the best player that I've met) who can beat me with practically any character (he has trouble with Ice Climbers, just because he never plays as them).

It's fun to be Pichu and actually do really well. It's also fun to be Pichu or Kirby and annoying everyone by running away and taunting :). 8O

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Jigglypuff has stronger attacks (a la one-hit-kill sleep attack)

Young Link is damn fast and his spin attack pulls you in for extra damage. Link's spin attack pushes you away.

Gannon is slightly more powerful and a lot heavier (which effects how far you can be thrown and how fast you fall).

Luigi is taller and slightly more powerful.

I wouldn't boast the wonders of Rest...you have to be inside your enemy for it to have an effect and if it misses (which it almost invariably does) it leaves her open for getting KO'd (which, let's be honest, you could do by giving her a slightly suspicious glare)

Young Link's additional speed isn't really handy unless you're playing keep-away...though considering it's an open warfare game I can't see why you would.

I don't throw characters given how ineffective it is. It's much better to do attacks that do more damage. Like anything but a throw. Ganon does do more damage, but considering you can go and get a sammich between the time he starts an attack and the time he does it, that's not so hot.

Luigi's...just a tool and I hate him.

Another example, Pichu. Did we really need a worse version of Pikachu? I could understand if Pichu dealt more damage with the more damage he took (kinda like ABA from guilty gear) but...he doesnt. He's just a self-destructive poor second choice for self-imposed "No clone" rules.

It's fun to be Pichu and actually do really well.
Is...that even possible?

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I wouldn't boast the wonders of Rest...you have to be inside your enemy for it to have an effect and if it misses (which it almost invariably does) it leaves her open for getting KO'd (which, let's be honest, you could do by giving her a slightly suspicious glare)

I love using Jigglypuff against my dad, cause he always chooses Ganondorf, such an easy rest target. That or samus, because I just shoot him from ranged and bug the heck out of him with bombs or smash attacks when he gets close.

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