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RWS 3-2: Iron Remixer Challenge: Bleep'


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:-( Ouch...Could perhaps drum programing be substituted for the solo?

It's only a solo "segment", so yes, it's fine, for the segment. I integrated a full segment completely of my own content before, and it was about 16 seconds or so. I think it was 10~20% or so of content that was okay?

Edited by timaeus222
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At this point I'm going to try and make a good track then worry who wants to work with me on it later, [...] IDK I just need to get crackin' on making a GOOD track as opposed to who going to help me.

But if you just tack the name of a posted remixer on top of a mix you completed all by yourself, this pretty much defeats the whole purpose of this compo, doesn't it?

Still don't understand how/why this begins before the sign-up process is even completed. Unlike PRC, this one pretty much relies on people pairing-up.

Plus, being late to the party incidentally puts you at a distinct disadvantage, time-wise. Then again, maybe I completely misunderstood the rules.

Well, if someone finds the kindness in their heart to mentor/assist me on a remix, I'd like to sign up as a novice. (GMT +/-1 and Sonar ideally, but not necessarily).

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But if you just tack the name of a posted remixer on top of a mix you completed all by yourself, this pretty much defeats the whole purpose of this compo, doesn't it?

see: RWS s1 e5, Calm of Sweden 'feat' Flexstyle.

Well, yeah, for the most part it does. My only completed entry for a RWS compo wasn't even completed with the help of my star (Flexstyle), as I couldn't get a hold of him during the round at all. While I still learned quite a bit, it wasn't from my mentor/star.

Still don't understand how/why this begins before the sign-up process is even completed. Unlike PRC, this one pretty much relies on people pairing-up.

Plus, being late to the party incidentally puts you at a distinct disadvantage, time-wise. Then again, maybe I completely misunderstood the rules.

part of the problem, I think, lies in the fact that there isn't a distinct sign-up period, unlike past RWS seasons.

Also, did anyone pair up with gario?

Edited by Anorax
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I really think sign-ups should happen successfully first, and then the round should start after that.

Agreed. RWS isn't exactly styled the same as other compos. Because there's something akin to a team element, you need to make sure all the teams are together before this can really take off. PRC and MnP, in contrast, are individual-based (but could potentially have collaborative entries) and can therefore run on a nonstop schedule and have people jump aboard at any time during the entry submission window.

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But if you just tack the name of a posted remixer on top of a mix you completed all by yourself, this pretty much defeats the whole purpose of this compo, doesn't it?

I apologize if it seemed like I was going to slap a Star's name on my mix for marque value, I was not. I wanted to start from a point where I feel strong, then ask for help as I move from my point of artistic strength. From my stand point, the Star is the ace in the hole. If I give a Star something really good to work with, then they can push the mix upwards, making it better. If ,right from the get go, I know where my strengths are, and where my weakness are, I would seek someone out who is strong where I am weak and keep that in mind when creating the track. If I have no idea how to get properly mixed drums I would want the Star that does so I'll make a track that is lacking in drums ask the Star to cover that angle, in addition to the normal supportive role...Maybe the track I made sounds really unappealing and suggestions could be made to revise certain parts? I was using Timaeus' suggestion of about 80 % of the mix should be the novice with the rest up to the star.

Yes, it would probably make it a lot more conducive to teamwork starting at the ground floor, making a pool of names before anyone has a "secret ingredient" then starting the pairing. Maybe to spice it up do some sort of random pairing?

"5 novices 5 stars, each team must learn to work together and overcome their differences to achieve victory!"

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If ,right from the get go, I know where my strengths are, and where my weakness are, I would seek someone out who is strong where I am weak and keep that in mind when creating the track. If I have no idea how to get properly mixed drums I would want the Star that does so I'll make a track that is lacking in drums ask the Star to cover that angle, in addition to the normal supportive role...Maybe the track I made sounds really unappealing and suggestions could be made to revise certain parts? I was using Timaeus' suggestion of about 80 % of the mix should be the novice with the rest up to the star.

That sounds reasonable for the most part. Actually though, I don't think you should just purposefully make a track with poor drums and then specifically ask the Star how to fix it (assuming that's what you meant); do your best first, and then ask for the feedback on the work based on your regular effort (not your less-than-normal effort), and we Stars can help in whatever aspect that happens to be causing you issues. If you know how to do something, you don't have to fake it. :)

Also, in response to Dj Mokram, another reason to not start without the Star is so the Star might be able to help you decide which direction you may want your arrangement to go. If you already wrote a lot of the arrangement, you might not feel so inclined to change it. I know when I have a lot of arrangement done, I probably wouldn't want to change it unless:

1 - it works

2 - I've waited at least a day to reset my memory of the remix so I'm not biased in favor of the older arrangement version

Edited by timaeus222
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My reasoning for allowing pairings to happen "live" was to reduce the need for commitment. PRC and MnP allow people to drop in whenever they see the round is open, and I wanted to make it so that people could participate even if they missed the sign-up period.

However, since there seems to be strong demand that I go back to the old way, to clarify pairings and level the playing field, I can do that. Certainly this new method didn't help participation in episode 1!

In that case, how do people feel about the Novice/Star assignments? Do people prefer to pick their partners or have them randomly assigned? Picking partners lets people match up DAWs, timezones, and preferred communication methods, but would decrease the number of different Stars each Novice would work with, over time, which I think is a valuable experience.

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My reasoning for allowing pairings to happen "live" was to reduce the need for commitment. PRC and MnP allow people to drop in whenever they see the round is open, and I wanted to make it so that people could participate even if they missed the sign-up period.

However, since there seems to be strong demand that I go back to the old way, to clarify pairings and level the playing field, I can do that. Certainly this new method didn't help participation in episode 1!

You still can allow people to pair up after the start of the round.

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Aw, drats, forgot to actively check for the next round.

Awell, if any thinks my stardom is good enough I'm willing to sign up as a star. I'm in the Europe/Amsterdam timezone and working with Logic Pro X (and Bitwig or Renoise if needed).

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Just leaving some major tips I could have given, or ended up giving to Necrox:

  • Watch your harmonizations in your low notes; those tend to harmonize less well even for theoretically correct (in terms of music theory) harmonies. The nitty-gritty reason is that the harmonic series correspond to an increase in the rate at which the fundamental frequency increases when you go up octaves, so the spacing between each harmonic increases as you go up in pitch. See the line spectra here for an analogy. Therefore, at lower notes, the harmonics are closer together, and your harmonizations should feel more clashing because chances are, each note that is harmonizing at that low octave will have overlapping harmonics, making the chord "quiver". Play any bass sound in polyphonic mode and play a major 3rd at a low octave, and you'll be doing what I'm describing. If you think of writing a chord like that with harmonizing low notes, try bumping the second and/or third-to-bottom notes up an octave, or removing them to clean up the bass frequencies. It's very messy when you combine this with a washed-out reverbed soundscape.
  • When you add a new instrument, try starting at volume = 0, and raising the volume until it's just about right. That way it's harder to put in something too loud. I used to find it easier to detect volume changes from volume increases than from volume decreases.
  • Mix not in isolation (single instrument, i.e. soloing an instrument), but in context (groups of instruments enabled for playback). However, it does not mean mix with everything going on at the same time. For example, if you have a song with bass, two chordal instruments, a lead, and drums, group together the two chordal instruments, get the mixing down on those, then perhaps enable the bass as well and mix in that new context, enable the lead and mix in that new context, mix with only the drums and bass enabled (sidechaining, perhaps), and then see how it sounds overall with everything playing once that's done too.
  • Unless your headphones are pretty dry (adjust the wet mix on your reverb and listen to how the sound changes; if nothing much feels different for, say, -20~-10 dB wet mix, it's pretty dry), use a bit less reverb than you would prefer. A lot of headphones have a "reverb response", which means that they give a natural ambience to compensate for their close-up output to your ears (whereas speakers just respond to the natural ambience of your room). Some headphones have high reverb responses, so they sound wetter than better, drier headphones. So... mixing with less reverb than usual helps to ensure that you are using an amount of reverb that sounds about the same on most headphones. For example, my Shure SRH440A's are pretty washy, but my Grado SR-60i's are drier, and my Beyerdynamic DT-880's are even drier than that. So if I mix on my Beyers a minimum amount of reverb, it sounds about the same on the Grados and on the Shures, but if I mix a minimum amount of reverb on my Shures, it will appear drier when I listen on my Beyers.

Edited by timaeus222
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I've noticed a strong tendency for the same people to vote, over on TheSauce, and I know that everyone here is probably familiar with the Compos, but I would really like to take the time and invite everyone who reads this to head over to http://compo.thasauce.net and have a look at the Compos underway. Right now we've got a great Remixing With the Stars and I can tell, those who have submitted have put a lotta of effort in to their craft and it can be disheartening when only a few individuals vote. There's a strong probability this thread will get bounced to a different Forum, but it's 10-15 minutes of your time and I can tell you, truthfully, even if you're not the winner, it feels Damn good to stand a tip-toe with Remixers, posted or otherwise, and say I was confident enough to put this forward as a challenge for the opportunity to be named 1st or 2nd or even just to hear feedback, not in a workshop format, but rather in a "will it play in Peoria" format. Well as always Thank You for the time and I hope to see you all on the voter's feedback!

Edited by YoshiBlade
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I pointed this out in my write up, but that last word got cut off...and to post a link to a relevant topic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronicity

Ok facts of the case: 1)This is a remix of the Stone Tower Temple and the Oath to Order. 2) I took right off with this mix before even meeting with Gario. 3) Gario’s Avatar is a mask from SMB 2. 4) If you remove one letter from Gario’s name, you get Garo. 5) If you put his name, minus the one letter, with his avatar you get Garo Mask. 6) The Garo Mask is the mask used to summon the Garo Ninjas in Ikana, the location of the Stone Tower, who then give you hints about the history of the Stone Tower. 7) The leader of the Garo resides in…The Stone Tower…coincidence? Absolutely.

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I've noticed a strong tendency for the same people to vote, over on TheSauce, and I know that everyone here is probably familiar with the Compos, but I would really like to take the time and invite everyone who reads this to head over to http://compo.thasauce.net and have a look at the Compos underway. Right now we've got a great Remixing With the Stars and I can tell, those who have submitted have put a lotta of effort in to their craft and it can be disheartening when only a few individuals vote. There's a strong probability this thread will get bounced to a different Forum, but it's 10-15 minutes of your time and I can tell you, truthfully, even if you're not the winner, it feels Damn good to stand a tip-toe with Remixers, posted or otherwise, and say I was confident enough to put this forward as a challenge for the opportunity to be named 1st or 2nd or even just to hear feedback, not in a workshop format, but rather in a "will it play in Peoria" format. Well as always Thank You for the time and I hope to see you all on the voter's feedback!

Aye, it's good to have a compo community that is accessible to amateurs and pros alike. Also, I will have to participate sooner or later in RWTS =D

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