WillRock Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Yeah I know, is it an issue to start with...? I dunno. Its an age old concept that has plagued musicians pretty much forever... and its always been interesting to observe the effects. However, when you start to feel the pressures of it, its a problem. A little background on my own situation and thoughts on the topic - I've been doing music for ages as you know and my music has always been somewhat unusual to classify - somewhere between 80s electronic rock chiptune whatever. That said, I do like experimenting with new things. I have plenty of people telling me they prefer my "electronic" sound to my "rock" sound, that my "chiptune" stuff is better, blahblahblah. Then I released "Welcome to the Real World" which was kinda a fusion of everything I do. People enjoyed it... and now, I feel like I have this pressure to just do another "Welcome to the Real World". Everything else I do doesn't feel good enough and peoples responses justify that. It doesn't help that I got the release on ubiktune and thats a pretty... specific label for genres that gives my music much more reach than just off my own back. My rock EP Monarchy was a bit of a flop by comparison, both in response and popularity. People would say "yeah its good but I prefer instrumentals/it lacks the creativity and sound of your other stuff" etc. Now... I hate to say it but I end up in a rather... weird frame of mind on it now. Fan appreciation is important to me and when people don't care for it, it serves to... put me off. And now I don't know what I want to do. Do I do "Welcome to the Real World 2? Can I even pull it off? Part of me feels that ship has sailed. However, due to my lack of knowledge of effective marketing and without a label backing me, as well as my current "fanbase" not appreciating other stuff i'd do in the same way... it makes me wonder what the point is of trying anything else. Doing another Welcome to the Real World is a logical choice... but then do I want to do that? Anyway, thats my story. Now, i've seen other people change their music. We all do it. How do you guys deal with the potential backlash when it happens? How do you market your non-game music thats not meant for the chiptune community specifically? Its a big topic when you delve into it and i'm curious to hear other peoples experiences Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skrypnyk Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Sounds like you're more eager to appease your audience than you are yourself. If you release something that your fans aren't enthusiastic over, that's unfortunate. If you're proud of what you made and how it sounds, that's really all that should matter (unless the entire goal was to make something profitable, then it starts becoming less of something you can be proud of and more something that can be marketable and easy to consume). You could always use different aliases to differentiate between the two styles, build up separate fan bases and then see them cross over when people start recognizing that you are involved in different projects and want to hear more from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazygecko Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Names are like brands. Make a new name or "project" for a different kind of music you want to make, if it doesn't overlap with what people expect from your current name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Art is about what makes you happy. If you like your own music, and you want to market yourself as a producer of that kind of music, that's great. If your fans like your chiptune arrangements more than your rock arrangements, it doesn't matter; make what you prefer more to make. If you feel the need to do so, incorporate more chiptune into your rock, or something. Try to balance what you think your fans want and what you actually want. You shouldn't have to slavishly make music your fans will like, and you shouldn't have to give up your pleasure in whichever genre of music you prefer to write. I'd say that I like your rock-infused chiptune arrangements more than I like your chiptune-infused rock, if that makes sense. I don't often hear you write vocal songs, so maybe your fans are used to your instrumentals. I think you have great talent in writing synth solos, as you probably believe too. I think you should do another "Welcome to the Real World"-esque album. Edited April 14, 2015 by timaeus222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 To paraphrase the mighty Tobias Sammet regarding fan criticism of the "Space Police" album cover. "Not giving a fuck about what people think is what heavy metal is all about." I think there is no way to combat the issue, honestly. You're never going to please everyone no matter what you do. Fans who are obsessive with genre labels are especially bad for hating on any future works that vary even slightly in style from previous efforts that the person considers to be the artist's best work. Take it all with a full bag of salt though, since I don't have fans. I merely observe the behavior of other fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnWake Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) In my opinion, you shouldn't blindly follow fan desires unless you want their money Of course you should read constructive criticism but opinions like "lol vocals 8 bit is better" are to be dismissed and ignored. In any case, I feel you should music that makes you passionate. If doing "Welcome to the Real World 2" isn't what you want to do then it'll probably turn bad or, if by chance it turns good, you won't probably like it much, which is worse than your fans hating it. I have to say I do agree with gecko about the brand issues. It'd be a smart idea to have a different artist name for different styled projects if you don't want fanbase issues DISCLAIMER: This opinion is given by someone with no fans besides his family. Edited April 15, 2015 by jnWake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nase Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 fans come and go. you have to do your music, and will have to accept that fan interest will shift. some will lose focus on you, some will become more interested as you go along. to compromise based on your past path and the reception thereof means to cut what you want to express short. this may sound a little hard, but hey, everyone of us does it. everyone just needs to know that it's not a good way to make more music. you're saying it yourself, you feel pressure to live up to earlier tunes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sci Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 my experience: from 2006 to 2011, basically everything I made was chillout. then in April 2011, I discovered hardcore / breakcore / etc. I was inspired. I made a ridiculous breakcore track that ended up getting a lot of attention, and to this day it's one of the most commented-on videos on my channel...and the comments are 75% "this doesn't even qualify as music" but I love how my song turned out, and I like reading those comments (some more than others, but still). they're funny to me eventually I decided to split my name: anosa for my crazy breakcore junk, sci for my usual chillout, anosci for a more recent style I've developed (tbh I haven't quite figured out where these divides are exactly, but yeah) that leads into my advice: spit your alias. try to find the divide in your music. rock vs 9bit, perhaps? willrock and maychip. or whatever. with a divide like this, your style can grow in different directions in a fluid, non-discreet way ...and your fans can pick a name that they like. (example: General Mumble. if he releases an album under his Pupae alias, I know I'm skipping it. but if it's under his Spott alias, I know I need to hear it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Billy you need to make more , then everyone will buy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyril the Wolf Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Idk my fans are supportive of just about whatever the bloody hell I release. I mean it helps that I sing on almost everything I do and people have to like my voice to be a fan :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dj Mokram Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Fan appreciation is important to me and when people don't care for it, it serves to... put me off. The real issue here, is that this makes you look insecure about yourself and your craft, which saddens the fuck out of me for a simple reason: a musician as good as you should never, ever need this kind of validation. Experimenting with styles you aren't familiar with means having the balls to take risks and stepping out of your routine/comfort. Whether you like it or not, you cannot make every listener happy or be loved by everyone. You might have involuntarily (and temporarily) dug yourself into a corner/niche due to peer/fan pressure. But the truth is: you never were the kind of guy who had to work his ass off to make barely listenable music. What you have is a gift, a real talent for what you do. And I sincerely believe you always will have that. My only hopes, is that you won't lose it to statistics, likes and viewcounts. Make music that makes YOU happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WillRock Posted April 16, 2015 Author Share Posted April 16, 2015 Sounds like you're more eager to appease your audience than you are yourself. If you're proud of what you made and how it sounds, that's really all that should matter (unless the entire goal was to make something profitable,). Making money is quite a big goal for me. The pressure to make money out of this does fuel how I'm doing things atm. Names are like brands. Make a new name or "project" for a different kind of music you want to make, if it doesn't overlap with what people expect from your current name. Yeah this seems like a great idea. Something I probably should have done a long time ago. "Not giving a fuck about what people think is what heavy metal is all about." \m/ The real issue here, is that this makes you look insecure about yourself and your craft, which saddens the fuck out of me for a simple reason: a musician as good as you should never, ever need this kind of validation. You're misunderstanding my point I'm glad you think I shouldn't need that validation but I don't believe I need it. I have the confidence in my own music to know its good because I think its good. Thats good enough for me. However, I'm well aware that not everyone will like my music. I'm not saying "no one likes my music therefore i'm sad". Its more along the lines of "The people who I can market my music to don't appreciate it as much as others would, others who I don't know how to do marketing towards." Its more of a marketing issue than a personal validation. I just wish I could get my music out to ears that appreciate it to its full potential. OCR and the surrounding community is very open - but you can't deny there is an understandable bias towards chiptune music. My own validation isn't enough atm because I don't feel I can waste my time doing music "just for me" right now. My personal situation doesn't allow me that kind of luxury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Strader Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 For whatever reason making money from your music is the most evil thing ever. If your goal is to make any kind of income from your music and be able to afford dinner for more than 1 day then you are doing music for the wrong reasons, dude! At least that's what most people tell me. On a serious note, I think making 2 names will just dilute your brand. Your audience isn't big enough to justify 2 names yet. Try just getting a lot more fans for 1 name. Maybe for every 1 guy that doesn't like it you will find 6 who do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zircon Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 I agree with Brandon. I don't think it's necessary to split yourself up like that. As 'zircon' I do 16-bit RPG soundtracks, epic cinematic stuff, trance, big beat/complextro... it's all under one roof. My YouTube channel is even more of a mishmash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyril the Wolf Posted April 16, 2015 Share Posted April 16, 2015 Gonna throw my two cents in as well... I'm by no means *popular* but I gotta say that like, though I know I lose fans and then do polarizing stuff like My Little Pony related music w/e my fanbase has kept growing steadily and not too many people have left. In fact most people tell me they can look past the pony because they enjoy that I'm not afraid to poof around with genres and I just do what I do to make people jam out. Honestly, keeping a singular identity and just putting as much quality content out there is going to draw even more people, then pretentious people can brag about how diverse you are to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timaeus222 Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) WillRock for the rock Will2Byte for the chips (get it? 8 bits in one byte. I crack myself up) Edited April 17, 2015 by timaeus222 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelCityOutlaw Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) I agree with Brandon. I don't think it's necessary to split yourself up like that. As 'zircon' I do 16-bit RPG soundtracks, epic cinematic stuff, trance, big beat/complextro... it's all under one roof. My YouTube channel is even more of a mishmash. Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you sort of been known as "he who does it all" for a very long time now? I think that doing everything under one label without fan backlash is probably easier when you've been known for a lot of different styles right from or close to the get go. It's like, I wouldn't personally say I know Zircon for "complextro" or "trance" or anything like that - I've literally never said something like that. I've always just said "Zircon's a cool composer, you should check his stuff out." Similar thing for other composers like Mick Gordon. I can't say I know his music for any specific style. In the case of WillRock and many others though, a particular style does come to mind to describe them even if they do multiple genres down the road. What happens, far as I can tell, is people release albums and EPs where most of the tracks on it can reasonably be lumped into one category. Perhaps they do another in very similar style. Then, their music evolves and they have an album of a strikingly different style and the previous fans are disappointed because they are so used to knowing what to expect from that artist. The same behavior can be observed in movie, tv, comic and video game fans. Look at the backlash DmC faced really just because the character redesign was something unexpected and people were quick to shun it at least a full year before the game even came out. People jump to the conclusion that it must be inferior when it's something unexpected and different for some reason. From my observation, I'd say that if you've been making albums with tons of different styles on it and drew fans that way, said fans are more likely to appreciate an equal amount or greater diversity on the next album under the same artist name. Tommy Lee (and many fans) have said numerous times that Motley Crue's 94 album would have been more successful if it wasn't called Motley Crue. Edited April 17, 2015 by AngelCityOutlaw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nase Posted April 17, 2015 Share Posted April 17, 2015 (edited) the alias thing...i find it doesn't really matter. if it helps you to split your style into different categories, that's ok. i wouldn't say that's the gist of the discussion. one thing that strikes me as relevant, i just uploaded heaps of old tunes on my soundcloud...some of it bordering on the embarassing. like really early stuff from 10 years ago. i might've done that to stop me from worrying about reception altogether, because i know most of it will just be obscure shit to most. i don't wanna be bound by any self-required level of consistency. sometimes i like making trash, plain and simple. but it's some enjoyable kind of trash to me. Edited April 17, 2015 by Nase Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoBKTA Posted April 27, 2015 Share Posted April 27, 2015 I'm going through the same kind of issue here. To be honest tho, I think that if my fans appreciate my work, they even appreciate its natural evolution. Like, I've been doing mostly, disco, funk and stuff for years and just now I'm going through paths of experimentation. In my opinion, if they love my work they'll love the direction I'm taking. If they don't, I'm still happy I'm trying something new. It may sound a little selfish maybe, but that's how I always worked :3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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