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Final Fantasy XII


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For a game about war and having a good handful of interesting villains, there is a surprising lack of conflict in the story. It's all, "Go here and do this to obtain Nethicite-related Item/Information X" and little else. In that regard, FF12 is very boring and downright garbage when compared to the more involving stories in past FFs.

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For a game about war and having a good handful of interesting villains, there is a surprising lack of conflict in the story. It's all, "Go here and do this to obtain Nethicite-related Item/Information X" and little else. In that regard, FF12 is very boring and downright garbage when compared to the more involving stories in past FFs.

I know. I haven't had any of my characters even meet Vayne. So far at least. I bet not until the end.

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I can honestly say FF 12 is the best FF I’ve played (played 7 and up), but it does really point out the biggest weakness of these games, that being the lack of story/character content. You heard right, I say every FF game I’ve played suffered from this, but previous games distracted the player from this fact via two decoys: Characters with bizarre back-stories and convoluted story telling.

In my opinion, every FF character had a shallow personality and characters in game never got to know each other through interaction, rather, they spelled out their motives and feelings to the player during fancy, and often forced, cut scenes. To fill this personality vacuum, many characters typically had crazy back-stories with a heavy helping of angst to grab the player’s interest and sympathy.

The stories are always the same and effectively simple, but are bulked up with convoluted story telling and a zillion oddball subplots to overcompensate for the basic plot’s simplicity.

FF12 really had none of that. Characters were relatively normal and the story was told in a straightforward manner with few diversions. As a result, it felt rather barren. Plenty of things happened in the story, but without all of the fat and additives, it seemed to lack substance.

I really don’t want the storytelling to go back to the previous styles, however. Rather, it would be nice if

SquareEnix put a little effort into developing characters with more than 2 dimensional personalities and finding ways for them to express those personalities during the game without resorting to five + minute cut scenes. In game dialog, which other games have used to great effect, would be one possibility.

Edit: Gah, what happened to my text's spacing and size? Can't fix it either. :P

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I can honestly say FF 12 is the best FF I’ve played (played 7 and up), but it does really point out the biggest weakness of these games, that being the lack of story/character content. You heard right, I say every FF game I’ve played suffered from this, but previous games distracted the player from this fact via two decoys: Characters with bizarre back-stories and convoluted story telling.

In my opinion, every FF character had a shallow personality and characters in game never got to know each other through interaction, rather, they spelled out their motives and feelings to the player during fancy, and often forced, cut scenes. To fill this personality vacuum, many characters typically had crazy back-stories with a heavy helping of angst to grab the player’s interest and sympathy.

The stories are always the same and effectively simple, but are bulked up with convoluted story telling and a zillion oddball subplots to overcompensate for the basic plot’s simplicity.

FF12 really had none of that. Characters were relatively normal and the story was told in a straightforward manner with few diversions. As a result, it felt rather barren. Plenty of things happened in the story, but without all of the fat and additives, it seemed to lack substance.

I really don’t want the storytelling to go back to the previous styles, however. Rather, it would be nice if

SquareEnix put a little effort into developing characters with more than 2 dimensional personalities and finding ways for them to express those personalities during the game without resorting to five + minute cut scenes. In game dialog, which other games have used to great effect, would be one possibility.

Edit: Gah, what happened to my text's spacing and size? Can't fix it either. :P

A red lion/wolf that lives with hippies, loves the planet, has a tail that is on fire, has feathers as weapons, has a wicked cool scar, super awesome tattoos, and spent a good part of the game with an oedipus complex is damn good enough for me.

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A red lion/wolf that lives with hippies, loves the planet, has a tail that is on fire, has feathers as weapons, has a wicked cool scar, super awesome tattoos, and spent a good part of the game with an oedipus complex is damn good enough for me.

There are of course exceptions. Nanaki was pretty well developed, easily the best character all around in FF7. I can't name any real stand outs in 8. Freya had potential in 9 but it never developed into anything, and Auron was pretty cool in 10. But each game should have more than one or two standouts. Also, notice a trend here? All of the best characters are of the "old warrior" archetype (Basch falls in this category too, and is one of the better characters in 12). SquareEnix handles them pretty well..or at least, better than angsty boy/hyper boy/hyper girl/princess girl/mysterious guy/serious girl/cute kid/throw away character, which pretty much covers their usual range of character types.

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Quick Q for ya guys - where's a good place to get some cash around level 40ish? I'm saving for Canopic Jar.

Need cash fast? Check into cash! no, really, Zombies are a good way to farm. Festering Flesh, Forbidden Flesh. Zarinthian Caverns is the best. About 10 of them spawn where adrammeloch was. Or if you a little beffier (and have 1000 needles) try the deadlands. They drops good stuff too near the summit of hope with the Robolon Hunt. but be careful. Zombies are the best way to farm. After level 60 though, Wyrms in the Cerrobi Steppe are the best. Wyrm Liver for 1468 gil? x99? Lots o cash. also. steal from things all the time.

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I loaded up the game today, played a bit, and opened the area map (select button) to check some things out. However, the game would not let me close it. I couldn't get out of the screen by any means short of reseting the console. I checked all of my other save files, and the same problem is there as well. I'm a good 55 hours in, and this has never occured before. Has anyone here heard of/experienced this before?

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I loaded up the game today, played a bit, and opened the area map (select button) to check some things out. However, the game would not let me close it. I couldn't get out of the screen by any means short of reseting the console. I checked all of my other save files, and the same problem is there as well. I'm a good 55 hours in, and this has never occured before. Has anyone here heard of/experienced this before?

no, and i'm about 95 hours in. that's odd.

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Need cash fast? Check into cash! no, really, Zombies are a good way to farm. Festering Flesh, Forbidden Flesh. Zarinthian Caverns is the best. About 10 of them spawn where adrammeloch was. Or if you a little beffier (and have 1000 needles) try the deadlands. They drops good stuff too near the summit of hope with the Robolon Hunt. but be careful. Zombies are the best way to farm. After level 60 though, Wyrms in the Cerrobi Steppe are the best. Wyrm Liver for 1468 gil? x99? Lots o cash. also. steal from things all the time.

And I noticed that you can sometimes steal bloody necklaces from those zombies which sell for 1500 :P

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I can honestly say FF 12 is the best FF I’ve played (played 7 and up), but it does really point out the biggest weakness of these games, that being the lack of story/character content. You heard right, I say every FF game I’ve played suffered from this, but previous games distracted the player from this fact via two decoys: Characters with bizarre back-stories and convoluted story telling.

In my opinion, every FF character had a shallow personality and characters in game never got to know each other through interaction, rather, they spelled out their motives and feelings to the player during fancy, and often forced, cut scenes. To fill this personality vacuum, many characters typically had crazy back-stories with a heavy helping of angst to grab the player’s interest and sympathy.

The stories are always the same and effectively simple, but are bulked up with convoluted story telling and a zillion oddball subplots to overcompensate for the basic plot’s simplicity.

FF12 really had none of that. Characters were relatively normal and the story was told in a straightforward manner with few diversions. As a result, it felt rather barren. Plenty of things happened in the story, but without all of the fat and additives, it seemed to lack substance.

I really don’t want the storytelling to go back to the previous styles, however. Rather, it would be nice if

SquareEnix put a little effort into developing characters with more than 2 dimensional personalities and finding ways for them to express those personalities during the game without resorting to five + minute cut scenes. In game dialog, which other games have used to great effect, would be one possibility.

Edit: Gah, what happened to my text's spacing and size? Can't fix it either. :P

The character interaction is part of the reason I so loved Tales of Symphonia - all the optional Skit scenes where the characters would play out events in typical anime fashion ("Don't you know how to think, Sheena? Or is your chest the only part that's well-developed?" - Zelos). Great character interaction on the whole, though the storyline itself was considerably less involved.

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The character interaction is part of the reason I so loved Tales of Symphonia - all the optional Skit scenes where the characters would play out events in typical anime fashion

That was the problem I had with ToS: true, it had lots of character interaction, but it was eye-rollingly bad character interaction. I very nearly permanently shut the game off in protest right before the final boss battle after listening to the awful dialogue ("Discrimination is in the heart!") I like for my games to be games, not misguided and poorly executed efforts at social commentary by writers who clearly lack the talent to adequately address the subject matter.

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Also, "convoluted stories" are what makes JRPGs and a lot of Japanese games with vague and mysterious sets of circumstances and stories.

I mean, FF8 was probably one of the worst examples of it, but even then, I thought it was pretty interesting because it was so convoluted.

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That was the problem I had with ToS: true, it had lots of character interaction, but it was eye-rollingly bad character interaction. I very nearly permanently shut the game off in protest right before the final boss battle after listening to the awful dialogue ("Discrimination is in the heart!") I like for my games to be games, not misguided and poorly executed efforts at social commentary by writers who clearly lack the talent to adequately address the subject matter.

QFT. I had a great time playing the game a couple of times, lots of fun, yadda yadda, but the dialogue at times was pretty unbearable. BTW, since my map no longer works apparently without breaking the game (literally), does anyone know where I can find area maps (of decent quality) on teh intarwebs? I'm about to check gamefaqs, but am not too hopeful.

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Beat the game, saw the ending. Pretty satisfying, all things considered. Started a new game, with the intention of ensuring I will never curse another foe. I will level like crazy so I'll never lose...

But I just died fighting the Flowering Cactoid. Sigh.

What types of things will you do in a new game that you didn't do the first time around? I'm 80 hours in and I am not sure that I would replay.

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Well, besides getting things I missed and doing things in a different order (read: doing optional stuff much earlier than right before the final area), as well as getting all the summons and all the marks except for the absolutely crazy ones, as well as getting the mighty Zodiac Spear, not much. It's just, I see it as the kind of game you can play through differently each time, if you so desire.

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In reference to Tales of Symphonia, I found that particular method of character interaction a bit stiff and yeah, the characters themselves were sometimes hard to bear but then, they pretty much hit all of the anime cliché’s that I just can't take anymore (well, I can, but I don't really enjoy it like I did back in my teens).

It is true, a lot of stories from Japan be they games, anime, or what have you tend to be on the convoluted side, but not all. Skies of Arcadia managed to shoot pretty straight and had wonderful characters that, while still simple, were expressed with a subtle, upbeat honesty that I found refreshing. It's one of a handful of RPGs that's aged really well for me. I still enjoy it thoroughly. FF7 - FF10 I just don't anymore. I ate them up when I was in my teens and early 20's. I replayed them a couple years ago and decided to sell the whole lot.

FF 12 on the other hand, may age much better than its predecessors, I'll have to see what I think of it when I replay it a year or so from now and even further down the road.

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