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djpretzel

OCR01526 - Sonic the Hedgehog 3 "Knuckleduster"

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You guys are judging the lyrics too harshly. They're not supposed to make sense. That's what makes this song so unique and amazing. This is an awesome song, and I love the lyrics and singing

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Yeah, it doesn't matter what the lyrics say. One assumes that music is for expressing things, not for saying things. I find this song very amusing and quite original, I just love the singing, and the ending is very nice. Probably my favorite track from the album, and also from the whole OCR.

I have always thought that several of the tunes from the classic Sonic games lent themselves for vocal versions, and Marble Garden is one of them. So I am happy.

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This was great until you started singing. Then I erased the file. Sounds harsh, but that's criticism.

criticism? yes.

constructive criticism? no

How is this not constructive? Simply redo the song without lyrics, and it will sound better. A lot of other reviewers seem to feel the same.

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This was great until you started singing. Then I erased the file. Sounds harsh, but that's criticism.

criticism? yes.

constructive criticism? no

How is this not constructive? Simply redo the song without lyrics, and it will sound better. A lot of other reviewers seem to feel the same.

"You sang. I threw it in the trash." There's really no sense in trying to defend that manner of criticism as constructive. :lol:

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Hell, I thought the whole song is pretty cool, lyrics and all. Singing has to hit me right for me to approve of it; an "indie rock" song that relies on a scene kid wailing about some shit probably won't stick around me long. But these vocals are worked into the song very well. The distinctive style that DJP mentioned sounds great.

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This was great until you started singing. Then I erased the file. Sounds harsh, but that's criticism.

criticism? yes.

constructive criticism? no

How is this not constructive? Simply redo the song without lyrics, and it will sound better. A lot of other reviewers seem to feel the same.

"You sang. I threw it in the trash." There's really no sense in trying to defend that manner of criticism as constructive. :lol:

You missed my point. I threw it away because I felt the lyrics ruined the song. I've heard several remixes that involved lyrics that sounded quite nice. This wasn't one of them. The music itself is fine.

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This was great until you started singing. Then I erased the file. Sounds harsh, but that's criticism.

criticism? yes.

constructive criticism? no

How is this not constructive? Simply redo the song without lyrics, and it will sound better. A lot of other reviewers seem to feel the same.

"You sang. I threw it in the trash." There's really no sense in trying to defend that manner of criticism as constructive. :lol:

You missed my point. I threw it away because I felt the lyrics ruined the song. I've heard several remixes that involved lyrics that sounded quite nice. This wasn't one of them. The music itself is fine.

That doesn't really negate the fact that your criticism wasn't very constructive at all. You didn't mention why you thought the vocals were bad (the tone of Dan's voice, the recording quality, the lyrics themselves, etc.) Not to mention that you wrote that you immediately erased the file once Dan started singing, implying that you didn't listen to the song the whole way through, which lends your review less credibility.

This doesn't mean your point isn't relevant. If your opinion is that the vocals diminished the appeal of the song, then that's perfectly fine. But don't try to defend your original statement as constructive criticism.

When I originally heard this song, I was certainly surprised. I haven't played Sonic 3 too much, but I know this song from Rayza and RTF/Prophet of Mephisto's versions. This is certainly a different vocal style from Invertebrate Retreat, but it's similar in that it's awesome. Love the piano solo ending. Certainly not a song open to broad appeal, but I enjoyed it.

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Am I one of few that thought the lyrics made the song?

On top of that, this is among one of my favorites on the project - hard to say considering there were many great songs on there, but this helps in putting in all the stops in making it stand out from the crowd. The voice itself is almost completely different to what I've come to expect from Dan B - more of a rock voice than the mellow tone I've come to expect from stuff like Invertebrate Retreat - and it's easily gone to show that with stuff like this, Dan B is heading in the direction of being a jack of all trades, whether it be musically or vocally.

Thank you again for a great addition to the site and the project. Now, please provide the lyrics so we can sing along :)

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Am I one of few that thought the lyrics made the song?

Not at all. I thought they made the song as well. I also agree with the notion about it standing out on the project. Hearing lyrics in "Marble Garden" certainly wasnt something I was expecting. The vocal style came across to me as very off the wall, but still very cool. I might not of been as excited to hear another plain synth-oriented arrangement of this particular song, so the lyrics, to me, really made this one worth while. I really enjoyed this one a lot and I feel that's mainly because of the vocals. :?

I'd also to like to see the lyrics (along with however many other people requested it as well) so I can stop trying to guess them. :lol:

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Sorry this took so long.....

Knuckleduster lyrics -

I've gotta know

Who takes a life for free?

Some kind of man,

I know would tell her openly

I know your eyes expand

I won't lead you by the hand

I'll ask again,

Please, is there anybody free?

A foreign land

Why won't they speak to me?

I know your eyes expand

We can't lead you by the hand

Know you're a knuckleduster

And you're caught in a relapse now

With eyes half open and a trail of head crumbs,

Tell me again where you are from.

*scat*

Hope that helps people who have been mouthing nondescript sounds.

btw, i welcome criticism gladly, although some of it in this thread was blatantly ego-boosting trash talk. However, there's a reason they didn't like it, and I use that as additional perspective to analyze my own work and improve it. If people don't like my singing, hell - most of the time I'd agree with them. I finished this track about 6 months ago, and gained some perspective from not hearing it for so long. I know where they are coming from, but the goal of this song is the same goal I have with a lot of songs - to try something new. Some things worked out well, some things not so well. Just like Invertebrate Retreat - a song about a worm - try to write lyrics at least partially pertaining to the subject of a 16-bit sidescroller. It's tough! But again, I wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun.

I showed an early version of this track to Jared Hudson, and he said it sounded like Milli Vanilli. That's EXACTLY the kind of response I was looking for. I laid the cheese on extra thick for this one. This is by no means the type of music I would listen to, but damn - it was fun to make! I'm glad there are some people out there who appreciate my efforts :D.

Thanks for the comments, guys - and expect some more tracks soon. Maybe this time it won't be from a site project ;)

-dB

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Hearing lyrics in "Marble Garden" certainly wasnt something I was expecting.

"My Name is Nineko", anyone? :lol:

But all jokes aside, thanks for the lyrics Dan. I haven't heard too much stuff from Milli Vanilli to be sure, but still, I'm glad you're having fun with all this game-based lyric writing stuff.

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Hearing lyrics in "Marble Garden" certainly wasnt something I was expecting.

"My Name is Nineko", anyone? :lol:

Thank you, Rexy. Too often people forget that I, not Danny B, was the first one who did a vocal Marble Garden ;)

The point is, his remix is awesomely good. Mine sucks. :lol:

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Hearing lyrics in "Marble Garden" certainly wasnt something I was expecting.

"My Name is Nineko", anyone? :lol:

Thank you, Rexy. Too often people forget that I, not Danny B, was the first one who did a vocal Marble Garden ;)

The point is, his remix is awesomely good. Mine sucks. :lol:

I actually do remember. It just wasn't quite as surprising as it was on Knuckleduster. :wink:

And your's doesnt suck. :P

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Hey guys, long time listener and first time poster here. I have to say this is the best remix of Marble Garden (Act 1) I have ever heard. Thirteen years ago when the Sonic3 first came out, the music to this level really stuck with me. This remix brought it all back. Great Job Dan!!!!!

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Let's put it this way; The reason I like marble garden's original song so much is because of the quasi-modal nature of the melodies and harmonies, true to the actual level itself the composers tried to get a vibe going that wasn't (entirely) grounded in ABC classic harmonic theory.

What does this song do? Yeah, I don't like the vocals, but that's not the song's fault. I would have not minded them, but there was a huge problem that hit me, namely, the song is NOT marble garden 90% of the time.

Changing notes in the melody entirely killed the modal aspect of it, and in the end it comes out like an entirely different song.

So, that is to say, a song with no real value to me as per me finding it rather boring.

Not going to touch the production values, it's all very nice and clean, and what not. My main beef is just the alteration of major key aspects of the original song into something that has little to no relation to the original.

This isn't so much of a remix as it is a whole new song vaguely inspired in the marble garden original song.

As a NEW song, I suppose it's alright. Not my type of music honestly, but I can see its merits. As a remix however I was made rather angry (as much as I could before feeling silly for being angry at a free project done out of people's goodwill!) that this was the sole representative of this song in the project.

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Let's put it this way; The reason I like marble garden's original song so much is because of the quasi-modal nature of the melodies and harmonies, true to the actual level itself the composers tried to get a vibe going that wasn't (entirely) grounded in ABC classic harmonic theory.

What does this song do? Yeah, I don't like the vocals, but that's not the song's fault. I would have not minded them, but there was a huge problem that hit me, namely, the song is NOT marble garden 90% of the time.

Changing notes in the melody entirely killed the modal aspect of it, and in the end it comes out like an entirely different song.

So, that is to say, a song with no real value to me as per me finding it rather boring.

Not going to touch the production values, it's all very nice and clean, and what not. My main beef is just the alteration of major key aspects of the original song into something that has little to no relation to the original.

This isn't so much of a remix as it is a whole new song vaguely inspired in the marble garden original song.

As a NEW song, I suppose it's alright. Not my type of music honestly, but I can see its merits. As a remix however I was made rather angry (as much as I could before feeling silly for being angry at a free project done out of people's goodwill!) that this was the sole representative of this song in the project.

The whole "song is NOT marble garden 90% of the time" is so grossly inaccurate, even in a hyperbolic sense. The piano portion from 1:29-1:47 goes off into some liberally arranged comping, sure. The final vocals from 2:43-3:01 also don't involve the Marble Garden melody. The rest of the song is very obviously Marble Garden, whatever "modal aspect" bullshit you want to throw at it. Terrible review, one that misrepresents the mix.

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I suppose I should just say "OMG AWESOME MIX!!!!!!!!1" and get it over with, like the rest of this review thread eh?

No. You don't have to like the track at all. But to claim the association to Marble Garden Zone is minimal by any theory is both irresponsible and inaccurate. At best it's bullshit, so I called it bullshit.

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I suppose I should just say "OMG AWESOME MIX!!!!!!!!1" and get it over with, like the rest of this review thread eh?

No. You don't have to like the track at all. But to claim the association to Marble Garden Zone is minimal by any theory is both irresponsible and inaccurate. At best it's bullshit, so I called it bullshit.

That's nice, but regardless of what you consider bullshit or not, I stated my reasons. What can I say? I don't find any of the character (in terms of the melody for example, which in this mix IS different as it uses different intervals) from the original song in this, so to me they could as well not be related, and that's what I meant. What was taken away, in my opinion was what gave the song its character.

That's what I tried to explain, of course if you think otherwise that's fantastic and fine by me. However, I'm not going to say something which I simply don't find in agreement with what I hear in the song.

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I transcribed the melodic and harmonic content directly from the original, with very little alteration, with the exception of the parts that are blatantly original.

This is actually one of my most faithful remixes with regard to use of the original's composition.

I guess perception is reality.

Take your soapbox outside, please.

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