The Next Generation of Star Trek?

[Pyrion]

I downright disliked Nemesis.

That's because Nemesis was little more than a port of Star Trek II to TNG. They even offloaded Data's katra to a convenient replacement.

Nemesis blew, hard I'd rather ignore the fact it even exists and perchance to hope that it get decanonized.

Forming another rule of Star Trek movies: Every fifth movie isn't canon.

[weggy]

Im not really a Star Trek fan by any means. I grabbed a few episodes of TOS growing up, and TNG was a show I would watch when nothing else was on. So recently my roommates snagged DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise, so I figured why not.

First of all, DS9 is complete and utter crap. I've never seen a more boring sci-fi show, and could only stomach a handful of episodes. I heard the Dominion Wars were cool, but theres no way they could keep my interested until then.

Voyager was actually pretty good. Chakotay and Tuvok have enough badass in them to top everyone else in the series combined... twice. Except maybe Riker. And Janeway had a very different, and IMO, very effective command style. It also kind of reminds me of Battlestar Galactica, the whole "stranded ship trying to get home" thing. Which only helped it, since BSG is sci-fi perfection. One downside? The departure of Kes. I really liked her =(

Then we come to the black sheep of the saga, Enterprise. I have to say, I was totally blown away. I didn't have really high expectations, but I LOVE Enterprise. Season 1 and 2 were pretty decent, but the arc through series 3 is some of the best TV ive ever seen. Season 4 was a small step down, but it was also quite good. I honestly dont know why everyone dislikes it so much. There is not a single unlikeable character in the whole crew. Maybe Hoshi at the beginning when she was kinda whiney, but shes also crazy hot - so its not a problem.

And I dont care what anyone says, I really like the opening song. Especially the more upbeat Season 3 and 4 version. The montage of accomplishments from the Apollo missions, to the space shuttle, to the ISS, to the Phoenix, and then finally the NX-01 was totally sweet.

Enterprise is the only Star Trek show that I like enough to put on my iPod. Which says a lot - its a very exclusive club.

[revenge_of_quatermass]

Im not

Voyager was actually pretty good. Chakotay and Tuvok have enough badass in them to top everyone else in the series combined... twice. Except maybe Riker. And Janeway had a very different, and IMO, very effective command style. It also kind of reminds me of Battlestar Galactica, the whole "stranded ship trying to get home" thing. Which only helped it, since BSG is sci-fi perfection. One downside? The departure of Kes. I really liked her =(

Chakotay is a chump. Even the actor, Robert Beltran admitted that he had no balls. I mean he is pretty much Janeway's bitch, like he should have had a leash around his neck. Voyager is an abomination, even the Doctor and Seven couldn't redeem this series, cause they sucked too.

[Pyrion]

One downside? The departure of Kes. I really liked her =(

Kes was the only positive aspect to Voyager, and they killed her off due to UPN/Viacom's demand for "higher ratings with the 18-24 demographic," which called for one thing. Big boobs. They certainly got 'em. They dumped Kes and turned the rest of the cast into big boobs.

Though I grew up with TNG and enjoyed it, I think the best Trek was DS9. Among other reasons, it ignited my interest in shapeshifters. But think, out of all of the Captains, Kirk never knew Q (but did outwit Trelaine, who may have been a Q), nor did Archer. Picard kept trying to outfox Q with human virtue, which made him out to be a dullard, and Janeway was practically in bed with Q.

Sisko though? Sisko decked Q. That makes him awesomer than the rest combined.

Take this even further: Kirk traded immortality in heaven to die under a collapsed bridge. Archer? Ancient history. Picard? He's still around, assumedly. Janeway? Flag officer?

Sisko practically became a God. Though he did start out half-Prophet, and just didn't know it.

[revenge_of_quatermass]

One downside? The departure of Kes. I really liked her =(

Take this even further: Kirk traded immortality in heaven to die under a collapsed bridge. Archer? Ancient history. Picard? He's still around, assumedly. Janeway? Flag officer?

The only reason that they promoted Janeway to admiral is so she would never helm a ship again and muck up the universe.

[weggy]

One downside? The departure of Kes. I really liked her =(

Kes was the only positive aspect to Voyager, and they killed her off due to UPN/Viacom's demand for "higher ratings with the 18-24 demographic," which called for one thing. Big boobs. They certainly got 'em. They dumped Kes and turned the rest of the cast into big boobs.

The thing is, I thought Kes was much hotter than Seven of Nine =D

[OverCoat]

I've never found any Star Trek girls that attractive.

nigga what?!?!?

[Antipode]

I don't get the Voyager hate. I thought it was honestly a very intriguing series, particularly the final several seasons. I think it was greatly unappreciated and was sorry to see it get the reaction it did. I saw most of the series and I enjoyed the characters and the evolving plotline.

TNG, mostly the later ones, held that same significance for me.

Also, another random star trek rule I think should be that any episode that involves time travel or time distortions is going to be one of the best ones of the series.

Anyways, this animated series looks interesting. I'll keep an eye on it.

[Pyrion]

Also, another random star trek rule I think should be that any episode that involves time travel or time distortions is going to be one of the best ones of the series.

"I hate temporal mechanics."

That about sums up my loathing of those kinds of episodes.

Anyways, to try to understand some peoples' voyager hate, read this for starters.

This one's good too.

(EDIT: Whenever the site actually freaking loads...)

[Antipode]

To try to understand some peoples' voyager hate, read this for starters.

This one's good too.

(EDIT: Whenever the site actually freaking loads...)

You realize that essentially what these two links are saying is that Voyager sucked because Janeway made crappy decisions and because 7 of 9 wore a revealing costume.

Not even getting into the second one, I can't understand how a character's decisions affect the quality of a show. I mean in some ways I think having a main character that you don't like can make the show that much better. Whatever. And personally, I had no problem with Janeway anyway.

[zircon]

How were Voyager's characters cookie-cutter? Janeway was nothing like Picard or Kirk. She was more geeky than both, with a greater interest in engineering and science, and often contributed to technological solutions. She also had a significant other, and dealt with moral dilemmas differently than either Kirk or Picard. Tom Paris and Harry Kim are both great. Paris' efforts to redeem himself from a pessimistic, selfish ass to someone with a real goal and purpose was cool - I can't think of any TOS or TNG character that had a really criminal history. Kim has some traits of the overeager new guy - like Wesley did - but the fact that he befriended Paris, and his relationship with a girlfriend on Earth, those things added to his interest. Enjoyable.

Neelix is another fun one. He's not just comic relief ("Jetrel" anyone?) - he has some dark spots in his past as well, and has to come to grips with them. He genuinely acts like a guy who's been everywhere, a jack-of-all-trades, without seeming unrealistic or stupid. Then we have the Doctor... geez, how could anyone say something negative about him? Belana (sp) is always a fun one as she's constantly grappling with her Klingon side. It's rare in the other series to see someone constantly on the edge like that. The episode where she tries to remove the Klingon DNA from her child (and when she herself gets split into two) are both fascinating.

Chakotay being Janeway's bitch? Uh, anyone remember the episode where he stole a shuttle and broke every procedure and protocol to settle a personal vendetta with Seska? Season 2. Convenient to overlook that, I'm sure.

etc etc... I mean, really, I don't think you guys are being entirely fair here, for whatever reason. It's a good series.

[The Coop]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I watched quite a bit of the Voyager series (though I did skip season 5 until the finale), so my comments aren't from only having seen an episode here or there. I gave it more than a fair chance, and... well, you know my stance on it.

It all comes down to taste. You like what they served up for Voyager, I didn't. You liked the characters and how what was written for them panned out, I didn't. I don't see anything unfair there.

[Lotd2242]

I think the appeal of Trek was always its reflection on humanity. It was an exploration of ourselves through an exploration of a fictional universe.

The original will always be my favorite. The trinity of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy was like watching the external representation of our internal dilemmas when faced with certain situations. McCoy would spout off the emotional reaction, Spock would weigh in with intellectual understanding, and then Kirk would put it all together to pull a miracle out of his ass. Plus who didn't want to be Captain Kirk? Young, good looking, able to wet the panties of any woman in the galaxy, and apparently the best strategist in the history of the universe.

TNG I remember the most of because I grew up with it. TNG was always geared towards family. The crew was a family that you got to spend some time with each week. Hell, even the Enterprise D was basically a big cruise-liner. And unlike Spock, who constantly fought to remain apart from his human self, Data spent the series trying to figure out how to be human, and it allowed the show to reflect on humanity's little quirks.

DS9...grew on me the more I watched it. I think DS9 began terribly because it was a fragmented show that really had nothing to do and nowhere to go. The Dominion Wars at least gave them stories about how we deal with war and death. The whole side aspect of Sisko being a prophet seemed silly to me, and was poorly managed in my opinion.

Voyager I enjoyed from the start, but as it grew closer to the end, the emphasis on storytelling quickly took a backseat to the almighty dollar. By the last season it was Lost in Space with tits. Before that, well, it doesn't get anymore "where no one has gone before" than out in the boonies of space. And the fact that half the crew were basically criminals and the other half weren't lent itself to interesting interpersonal dynamics.

Enterprise...I don't know what the hell they were thinking with that series. If they wanted to take a step back, the should've chosen the era between Kirk and Picard that had been largely undiscussed, aside from nods to history of the characters in TNG/DS9/VOY. I guess they figured "going back to its roots" would somehow boost interest in Trek again. Maybe it would have, if the series hadn't trampled all over an established history. I gave up on it before the end of the first season, and even going back and trying to watch later episodes makes me cringe still. I thnk the failure of Enterprise really helped out Stargate, which has basically taken over Trek's spot in the SciFi world.

Now they're going to do that prequel movie which is a bad idea all around.

This cartoon show has promise, but I think the "galaxy of suck" idea is flawed considering Rodenberry's whole idea was that humanity grew up and managed to make a great place for itself.

[The Author]

...

...

Phasers set to flame:

Star Wars is better than Star Treck because Han Solo is a much better capitain than any capitain on Star Trek.

He SHOOTS FIRST.

[The Coop]

**turns on a fan to... well, fan the flames**

[Nec5]

It all comes down to taste. You like what they served up for Voyager, I didn't. You liked the characters and how what was written for them panned out, I didn't. I don't see anything unfair there.

Ditto. This reminds me of another thread that shall remain unmentioned.

[TheCD1]

The only reason that they promoted Janeway to admiral is so she would never helm a ship again and muck up the universe.

Word

I've never found any Star Trek girls that attractive.

nigga what?!?!?

she's the mahhautness

[The Lone Gunman]

BASHIR: "But it makes you wonder, doesn't it? Are humans really any different than Cardassians... or Romulans? If push came to shove, if something disastrous happened to the Federation, and we got frightened enough, or desperate enough, how would we react? Would we stay true to our ideals... or would we just end up... here... right back where we started?"

SISKO: "I don't know. But as a Starfleet officer, it's my job to make sure we never have to find out."

[weggy]

I've never found any Star Trek girls that attractive.

Possibly not work safe pic

kay.

[Fritz the Cat]

ARRGHARRRRGRGGRGGHAAAARRRFGGGHRHGRGRGHAAAARRGGRRGGRRGGRGGGH!

[StarZander]

I am one of those who love Voyager. It might be because it's the first series I watched, but I still enjoy the characters and plots very much. I loved the developments and struggles the characters all went through, and the fact that they are exploring completely unknown space and species'. They suffer casualties, but none of them are meaningless. Actually, it can be a very emotional series, but I like that most of the time.

My favorite character is probably the doctor, and his developments. 7 of 9 is also a very good character, and she is much like the doctor because she's trying to go from being mostly technological, to being more human. Some might say they are both rip-offs of Data, but I don't mind. Data was a good character aswell, but he was all good, and he wanted more than anything to be human.

The Doctor really just wanted more respect and recognition, and not just be treated as a hologram.

7 of 9 didn't really want to become human, as it was very strange to her. She felt more safe in the Borg way of "life". Also, she was already human, and trying to both embrace that part and ignore it, at the same time. The fact that she wore a ridiculously revealing bodysuit is really irrelevant.

Janeway did a good job as a captain, and I like it that she was very persistent in following the rules and directives of the federation, even though they were so far away from eachother.

The rest of the cast does a good job aswell.

I watched all the episodes of TNG aswell, and I must say I was disappointed in the first couple of seasons, as they built the episodes all wrong. The first 40 minutes are like the beginning of a movie, with a intriquite (sp?) plot, and it seems pretty good, but then they realise "Oh crap, we only have 5 minutes left to finish off this episodes story!" so they skip a shitload of explaining, and just wrap it all up way too fast. They got better at that later on in the series though.

Favorite episode? The Inner Light. Love that tune Picard plays. Got the mp3 and listened to it over and over and over again.

[Mouser X]

Favorite episode? The Inner Light. Love that tune Picard plays. Got the mp3 and listened to it over and over and over again.

Mind posting a link? That's a great episode. Also, I like flutes (I think it stems from whistling a lot, and Ocarina of Time...). I think I still have that episode on tape somewhere... Mouser X out.

[StarZander]

Favorite episode? The Inner Light. Love that tune Picard plays. Got the mp3 and listened to it over and over and over again.

Mind posting a link? That's a great episode. Also, I like flutes (I think it stems from whistling a lot, and Ocarina of Time...). I think I still have that episode on tape somewhere... Mouser X out.

Here is a link to a streaming of the orchestral suite made from that song:

http://www.trekconnection.com/sounds/mp3/tng2.asp

Just scroll down and you'll find it.

That's a shorter version though. At home I have a 6+ minute long version of it, and that's the one I've looped. I can't put it on my server for download though, since I'm not at home, but I do have this recording from the show (both from the Inner Light, and the later episode where Picard plays a duet with Darren on piano.)

http://www.starzander.com/tings/light.mp3

It is in pretty good quality, and very nice to listen to. The piano does alot.

Enjoy.

[Wacky]

TNG got me hooked on Star Trek. It was a family. I thought "Lower Decks" was probably one of the best trek episodes ever made, along with "The Inner Light." Also "Darmok."

TNG had some really beautiful Sci Fi themes running through it, along with a sense of family among the crew members (Hence why I assume Worf always finds himself back on the Enterprise). TOS had these too.

Then it just sort of died out. There was no more science fiction. It was just space opera. Star Wars is good Space Opera. Star Trek shouldn't try to be like that. Imagine switching it around to a Star Wars universe:

"These are the voyages of the ISD Crushing Fury. Our Continuing mission: to exert control and authority of his majesty the Emperor over his subjects and to maintain order and peace in the galaxy. To Destroy all that would threaten the Empire. To Conquer, where none have gone before."

*Trek Music*

In it, the Captain would have a large group of officers he relates to on a more familiar level, and the junior officers even play poker or whatever the hell they play in Star Wars.

That's not Star Wars.

Trek should stop trying to be what it isn't, and DS9, Voyager and Enterprise all forgot that (Except I thought first season Enterprise was great.)

[Stealthshark]

Janeway did a good job as a captain, and I like it that she was very persistent in following the rules and directives of the federation,

Wait..what? Janeway followed the rules if and when they suited her. One episode she was all about the PD and next she was chucking it out the nearest hatch. There was no stability to the character(IMO). I liked Voyager's concept a lot as it carried the potential to explore fresh new worlds away form the established species and cultures of the Star Trek universe. They had an excellent setup but extremely poor execution. Few if any of the characters acted like Starfleet officers.

The characters had the same potential as the setting. Several of them had plenty of room for development but it just seemed to be done poorly. And while many people liked the doctor, I hated the character. The concept of the holodeck accidentally 'creating' life irked me back in TNG, but at least they handled it properly by sticking Moriarty in an advanced sim and then placing him on a shelf to be forgotten. If the doctor had developed a similar malfunction, he should have been wiped and rebooted. Simple.

Enterprise is a similar story of failed potential (again, IMO). The decision not to attempt to stick with the established continuity was a huge blunder though. You cannot (well, should not anyway) take control of a property with as much history behind it as Star Trek and then decide to ignore that history because it would force you to work a little harder to adapt your ideas. Want proof? Look at Star Wars 1-3.

The Star Trek animated series will succeed or fail based on the amount of respect its creators bring to the franchise. While you certainly have great freedom when making a new series, there are certain fundamentals of the franchise (be they timelines, technology, protocols, or mindsets) that must be adhered to if it expects to do justice to the Star Trek name. While fans want (and one could argue, deserve) new content, you cannot move forward without adhering to the precedents set by those before you. If you attempt to, it ceases to be Star Trek.

Well, that's my 2 cents anyway.