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DarkOmenDKA, January 7, 2007 in Site Issues & Feedback
As far as I'm concerned, I had 0 feelings towards anyone in Unmod until they started causing trouble that I had to moderate.
I remember him saying he would donate to OCR if it wasnt for UnMod and Music of my Groin back in the daySo even before he had real power he was navigating himself into power
So even before he had real power he was navigating himself into power
Amazing. You found a stupid comment I made when I first came here nearly 5 years ago when I was still 15! Good detective work, Private Dick.
You know, there actually weren't many fad threads and the UnMod community started to look down upon them in general about three months before it was blammed. Show's how much you ventured in.
Much like your characterization of the community as "judges saying that got to go to a convention" shows that you don't visit the forums at all. Obviously.
I guess the whole set of boards isn't "thriving" unless people are making lots of fad threads in Off Topic?
You don't have to be an ass about it. The point is that it isn't true that you didn't have any negative feelings towards unmod.
While I myself am happy to see that the site is thriving, I still feel that something was taken away. Sure I had no tangible investment into the site itself, but the community was a big part. The community is what separated OCR from a lot of other sites. Unmod was available to members only and there was a blatant warning before entering it. If stuff spilled over, fine; It's the moderators job to delete that stuff and enforce it on those forums, but getting rid of the whole forum is a bit too much.
I am not saying to put it back, I am just saying to reason a bit more with it. Like coop said, it was a two way street. People in general don't like authority, and when you place authority where none is supposed to be, then we get mad. I don't know any of you IRL but that does not mean I will come bashing you. However, if you ban me, censor me, or otherwise disrespect me just because you can, then you need to take a hard look at yourself and realize I or anyone else will not tolerate that.
Really, I am happy for OCR. I am proud to be a member for a long time and have been visiting the site since day 1. I think Unmod as a whole knew the limits and tried to keep things contained. If a few people spoiled it, that sucks. We should have just dealt with those people and left things running.
All in all though, the decision was made and the action was taken. Though we may not all agree if was the best thing to do, it's done. Obviously I still visit OCR and obviously I am still a member, but that doesn't mean I don't feel some resentment towards the staff.
Of course it's true. That comment was made in the review thread for the MoMG mix - I had no idea who Shael Riley actually was, and hadn't even visited Unmod yet. The truth is I was bitter after being rejected from the site for the first time ("Motavian Battlefield"), and I felt slighted that a "low quality" remix was posted while mine wasn't. Stupid? Absolutely. I had no idea that the site standards had changed over time. As Darkesword will tell you I was incredibly annoying and a sore loser when I first came here, but that passed pretty quick as I learned more about the site functioned.
OK. Obviously I don't know because I didn't start reading the forums until last year, but from what I've read a lot of unmodders feel like you more than any other mod (except for graylightning I think) resented them all along. but yeah, what do I know.
What OCR lost by the deletion of Unmod was forum activity. GenDisc is EXTREMELY slow now (console threads, SSBB thread), and Offtop is basically just AD, PassivePretentiousness(read: annoying drunk AD lite) and noobs. Wether zircon would like to realize it or not, the forums are dead.
Graylightning loved both Gendisc and Unmod. Please do not taint his name.
Graylightning loved both Gendisc and Unmod. Please do not taint his name.Thank you.
oh well there was one other mod i thought
disregard all my posts ok
What happened to him anyway?
I always thought Unmod was idiotic and I visited a couple of times and couldn't help but wonder why it was being hosted by Ocremix at all (problem solved, I guess). It also helps paint a general image that the site is juvenile and immature which is not attractive to many people.
If there was anything that Ocremix did right, it was getting rid of Unmod.
Some forums were indeed unaffected by this, like ReMixing, Requests and WIPs, but it is undeniable that gendisc and offtop are pretty sucky now. Every now and then someone posts week-old news about a game console, and PassivePretentousness says that he is omg oh so drunk is this awesome y/n ?
Seeing as this is not a news site, or even a site for intelligent, informed discussion about TVs or anything than can be objectively measures/quantified, you have to have subjective discussions. And subjective discussions are only interesting when there is flaming/lulz. Anyways I certainly lurked more than I posted there, but my opinion is that the forums are nowhere near as interesting as they once where.
I was incredibly annoying and a sore loser when I first came here, but that passed pretty quick
From sore loser to bad winner.
Not that he's really a winner anyway, what with all this 'Private Dick' stuff. Dull insults on the internet? Good to see his life goals are achievable.
man what's wrong with you people!
I liked unmod for a while until people there decided that i was a retard so then i didn't like them and tried really hard to fit in and just looked like a loser! But then it got deleted like randomly. I don't think that was the best way to do it, but it was really really funny.
I always thought Unmod was idiotic and I visited a couple of times and couldn't help but wonder why it was being hosted by Ocremix at all (problem solved, I guess). It also helps paint a general image that the site is juvenile and immature which is not attractive to many people.If there was anything that Ocremix did right, it was getting rid of Unmod.
I've had similar remarks also told me to me in person, including by virt (the main reason for Unmod's existence in the first place). Sure, there may be decreased forum activity, but that doesn't concern OCR - if anything, it puts back the focus on what OCR is about.
Keep in mind zircon, I'm not making jabs at you. I'm trying to shed a little light on a few things here
As far as I'm concerned, I had 0 feelings towards anyone in Unmod until they started causing trouble that I had to moderate. That's when I started disliking certain members and losing respect for the board as a whole - with each new warning or banning that had to occur by the mod staff, we'd check and see "oh, he's an unmodder". Many of the site staff, myself included, were specifically harassed for pretty much no reason outside of simply enforcing rules. In other words, my opinion only formed as a DIRECT result of how unmod behaved (or at least the most vocal and problematic members). I'm sure the same applies for various other members of the staff as well. Of course we're going to reciprocate disrespect, trolling, harassment with stricter enforcement. Not to mention that we really don't have a responsibility to be respectful to troublemakers to begin with.
In other words, my opinion only formed as a DIRECT result of how unmod behaved (or at least the most vocal and problematic members). I'm sure the same applies for various other members of the staff as well. Of course we're going to reciprocate disrespect, trolling, harassment with stricter enforcement. Not to mention that we really don't have a responsibility to be respectful to troublemakers to begin with.
Mods always catch hell for their work. No one likes having their posts edited, or their threads deleted. It's a prime example of a thankless, but necessary, job. You have to edit and get rid of things, which results in ill feelings sometimes. Sadly, such things come with the territory. But it wasn't just the enforcement that got some folks to focus on you. It was also the occasional commentary that was made now and then. I distinctly remember IRC chats and threads where you had put down everyone in UnMod at times with sweeping generalizations, because of the actions of some posters (to use what you said above). Whether you were in the right or wrong with those comments didn't matter, as you responded to an insult, with an insult. Your job made the trolling scope focus on you, but some of your actions made it zoom in tighter.
While you're still bitter, along with a handful of others, the site is thriving.
Bitter? No. I'm not bitter at all, as what's done is done. I feel poor choices were made, but that's a different matter from hating and resenting those choices. But, I do like to point out the other side of the issue when someone is making UnMod out to have been a cesspool where only trouble took place. It simply wasn't the case for those of us who posted there very regularly, and took part in the things going on within it. I like to see both sides of an issue I was a part of get voiced, and not just one side. This isn't the O'Reilly Factor after all
You're making it sound like we've somehow been injured seriously because of the method of unmod's deletion, when that really is just.. not the case.
Actually, to a point, the site was. It showed a real lack of communication between both staff members, and them with the site populous. It revealed a rather distinct level of distrust based on stereotypes, that no one seemed to want to see through. It also showed that some of the site staff had yet to keep their personal feelings from getting the better of them as they did their job. When members of the site staff start making snide comments or putting posters down in response to what's going on, it doesn't do the site reputation any good. OCR is still a young site, and it has more growing to do. The events of the sidebar, retrobans, and UnMod's deletion showed this I feel.
Now if I can take a moment, I'd like to say something to all the site staff posting in here. I can understand where you come from with some of your mindsets. Trust me when I say that I've done my best over the years to see both sides of the "Us vs Them" issue that formed between some of UnMod and some staff, as well as other happenings over the time I've been here. I've yet to hate anyone on this site, and despite the occasional disagreements as some folks chose to take actions that I didn't agree with, I have no issues with anyone here.
With regards to UnMod, both sides did and said things that weren't kind or warranted, and both sides also did a lot of unnecessary generalizing. The end result was the loss of something I personally enjoyed about OCR. It's disappointing, but it's not "OMG I HAIT U!" inducing. So hopefully what I've written here isn't taken as me lashing out at people in anger or resentment. I'm simply trying to convey what I've seen develop over years.
That's just asinine. Everyone who cares what OCR is about either just downloads the mixes or hangs out in the parts of the forums dedicated to that. I hardly think some remixer one day said 'you know that board is so terrible I'm going to leave this board for fear of it consuming my soul and I'm going to spread the word that all of OCR is juvenile and bad because of some people that hang uot in a subforum of theirs'.
The site itself seems to be doing better recently, and thats good, but I don't think that has anything to do with unmod being deleted. Its just natural growth of the site, for the benefit of all.
The thing that concerns me is if you have a great site like this, wouldn't you want a set of reasonably interesting forums to go with it? GenDisc offers nothing to the random visitor to the site that he can't find everywhere else, and by chance they do sign up, they get gendisc with a drunk idiot.
Wow, didnt expect it would turn into a big thing like THIS. so what everyone is saying is that alot has changed in my 2 year absence?
Pretty much. New layout, new forum coding, new forums, new rules, new avatars... all sorts of stuff has changed.
IT'S A HOLE NEW BALLGAME MAN!
Coop, I love your sig.
I personally feel that the whole situation should have been handled differently instead of just banning and a full blown deletion.
Do you shoot a baby that cries a lot?
See sig. (10)
The site itself seems to be doing better recently, and thats good, but I don't think that has anything to do with unmod being deleted. Its just natural growth of the site, for the benefit of all. The thing that concerns me is if you have a great site like this, wouldn't you want a set of reasonably interesting forums to go with it? GenDisc offers nothing to the random visitor to the site that he can't find everywhere else, and by chance they do sign up, they get gendisc with a drunk idiot.
@ bolded text.
A forum is only as interesting as the users decide to make it though. I'd be more active, but my lifestyle is very tiring these days with constant shopping, cleaning, cooking, and studying (yeah I know, the womanly chores).
A lot of listeners become intrigued with the community and want to become more involved in some fashion - previous forum behavior did have a habit of driving some people away. Granted, some of these people have essentially asked for it, but in a lot of these instances there are better ways to handle them than just outright trolling them. Such instances generally put a bitter view of OCR into people's minds for douchebag-like attacks, and that's one thing that can be done without. From an image perspective, that's always something that should be avoided if possible.
@ Coop: Just as zircon may have made some generalizations, others made automatic generalizations about the staff as well. I remember when I took up the mod job was not too long before the whole shebang happened, and people were generalizing about the staff as well. These people tended to use divisive language constantly, and were affirmed for it. I felt very out of place during some of it because people piled on this hate profusely when all I had done beforehand was just lock a few threads and spent long hours deleting spambots' posts. In general, I got the impression that a lot of people, at least those who rapidfired lots of pointed questions in my direction, wanted a double standard - holding the staff to high standards while holding little to none to themselves. Thankfully for myself, I have done similar duties and more for a famous organization and with a userbase of far larger proportions (which has been the constant attention of press releases of the RIAA and been the attention of Congress & the general media at some points), but a lot of the undue remarks & commentary coming from some of the so-called prominent members back then are pretty hard for most people in the staff position to deal with while remaining rational and while maintaining a strong positive presence. Sometimes I've wondered whether a lot of the stress put on the staff was so that they'd crack under pressure and make a poor remark so that the hungry wolves could pounce.
Coop, I love your sig.I personally feel that the whole situation should have been handled differently instead of just banning and a full blown deletion.Do you shoot a baby that cries a lot?
As for the retroactive banning, I can't speak for (some have been reversed for those who promised good behavior), but banning for actions after the deletion are just. But as for the deletion of Unmod, the situation was that there were some undesirables that populated the forum who went out of their way to cause trouble, and some who were there largely to support them. In general, there was a perception that the forum should've been completely hands off, although that was never really the case. People justified this attitude with the name of "Unmod". How would you have suggested to change the nature of the community, which insisted being separate from the rest of the site? The forum restructuring was aimed at clarifying classifications, and the name of 'Unmod' needed to be changed too. However, just changing the name of the forum (to which there were some against as well) garnered opposition. That, and other comments made during that period, was indicative that merely changing the name of the forum wouldn't have solved the problem with the dynamics of OCR. Even on the staff, there was a vigorous argument/discussion on what to do to address the problem of two separate communities, one with nothing to do with OCR itself, but the only plausible solution that came up was a deletion.
Also about the sudden deletion, a sudden deletion was planned, although when was up in the air. The staff was worried about whether people would prepare in advance a big planned concentrated backlash.
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