OCR00753 - Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time "Pachelbel's Ganon"

[djpretzel]

Even the second time I did not enjoy it.

And I think I realized why. There is nothing wrong with your song, except for the fact that you really didn't do much.

You didn't decimate the chord progression at all. You may have given them a bit of your own style and flair, but they still remain. Though you changed the melody, for me anyways, the song still remains the same. I have a very powerful ear

Sorry, had to respond here because this was amusing; from a certain perspective, if I respond to comments like these, I look petty and overly defensive. This post in particular implodes upon itself via its own devices, needing no real assistance on my part. But sometimes people are just so inarguably wrong that not correcting them could give OTHER people the wrong idea and spread FUD.

I'm not going to defend the piece on subjective grounds, but rather on objective grounds: if you specifically think this chord progression in any way resembles the chord progression from the original, your "powerful ear" still needs yet more power. The melody is the same, the progression entirely different. If anyone else doubts this, I can post objective evidence, namely MIDI files, indicating the discrepancy, but frankly, I think it's so awfully self-evident that even those with a "weak and ignominious ear" could hear the difference.

In other words, I'm not calling anyone out on not liking this piece - that's a matter of opinion. But if someone's gonna say the chord progression is largely unaltered, that's an egregiously incorrect and easily disproven claim.

[KyleJCrb]

Next, don't try to be all superior by telling me my ear is not powerful. Don't ever look down on people you don't know becuase you honestly don't know anything. I am graduating Piano with my diploma soon. I play the saxophone. Edwin E. Gordon's ear music tests rank me in the 99.9% of all human beings. Not to mention I have actually written my OWN songs.

Why do people try to flaunt their education to prove a point? I know I'm never impressed by what people claim to know. And what's to say that DJP hasn't written his own stuff?

It's been awhile since I've listened to this song, but for one of the older pieces on the site, it definitely stands out as one of the better songs of the time period. I see no reason to bash it.

[djpretzel]

I'll be posting MIDI files for direct comparison as soon as I have time. Someone this sad needs an eye-opener.

[Navi]

Edwin E. Gordon's ear music tests rank me in the 99.9% of all human beings.

Isn't that a bad thing?

[tennischamp7]

This song freakin rocks!!

I stayed up till midnight listening to it. DJ Pretzel, you should definetely make many more remixes just like this one! Kudos to you.

[Scufo]

This remians one of my favorite mixes on the site. I've listened to a lot of Zelda 64 mixes and this is one of the only ones that struck me as being more then mediocore. Keep up the great work .

[djpretzel]

Honestly I couldn't care less.

You are right, I am wrong.

Oh and to that person?

I means 99.9 percentile. So no it's a good thing.

And to the other person. I just wanted to show that I'm not a dumbass. I can't respect someone who thinks that they can take down other people. I was just backing up my claim.

Then back it up with evidence, not claims of being some super-slick and extensively educated guru. That's not backing anything up, that's flaunting credentials we can't even verify. Do you see the difference, perhaps?

Speaking of backing things up, I decided I'd help you out. You're clearly operating under the impression you've offended me by not liking my mix. You haven't. After 65 mixes, some of which even I don't like, I'm well-prepared for things not to sit well with people.

However, what does offend me is how awfully, terribly wrong you are, and how you're insisting on invoking some hoohaa education and having amazing ears, when this is a very clear matter which can be investigated quite easily without resorting to name-dropping or bragging. This is where I think I can help you.

here is a helpful diagram: http://www.ocremix.org/etc/zelda64_pachelbel_notes/zelda64_pachelbel_comparison.png

It illustrates the respective melodies and chord progressions for the portion of the piece in question, and even has a helpful color-coded legend.

Also, here is the electric piano part, covering chords and melody, from my mix:

http://www.ocremix.org/etc/zelda64_pachelbel_notes/zelda64_pachelbel.mid

as compared to the original:

http://www.ocremix.org/etc/zelda64_pachelbel_notes/zelda64_original.mid

You didn't decimate the chord progression at all. You may have given them a bit of your own style and flair, but they still remain.

Hopefully you now realize the above statement is wrong, not only in terms of noun-pronoun agreement, but on a musical level.

I am graduating Piano with my diploma soon. I play the saxophone. Edwin E. Gordon's ear music tests rank me in the 99.9% of all human beings. Not to mention I have actually written my OWN songs.

I'd ask for my money back. Also, rather than TELLING us you've written your OWN songs, SHOW us - link us to them. This connects back to the whole concept of "backing things up" - see, we've come full circle!

In summation, hopefully this diagram and these MIDI files assist you in some way. I don't mind people criticizing my music one bit, and I do so myself so it'd be hypocritical to be hypersensitive, but I *do* mind FUD, and I do mind fallacy being defended by those with nothing to offer as evidence except their egos.

[Jillian Aversa]

I've been wondering why this track's been getting so many reviews these past few days. Not that it doesn't deserve them, of course, but it caught my attention. Now I know.

metal conker: You really should think before you post, or your name will soon become metal conk-head.

Enough said.

[Dhsu]

Guhhh...I feel like I'm theory class again. Why must you do this to me, djp?? KHAAAAAAAN!

Uh, anyway...while I sided with djp based on initial listens, I decided to go ahead and break it down anyway. I might've ended up completely wrong, but this is what I came up with. (Warning: long and complicated post ahead. Skip to the to get to the important part.)

Here's a diagram I made with Anvil Studio (and a little help from Ms. Paint) to make it easier to read the actual notes.

First of all, I decided to switch the focus of the comparison to the segment where the melodies (circled in bold red) come in. The accompanying chords are encased in a delightful blue.

Now, those familiar with music theory should immediately recognize both pieces are obviously in completely different keys (exactly which ones they are we'll discuss later). So, let's play some match-up, shall we? In the original piece, the melody starts at a D, jumps to its apex at a high D, then after some intervening passing tones, falls down to a B. In djp's version, the equivalent segment starts at a C, goes up to the B-flat, then lands comfortably on a G. So immediately, we can acknowledge that conker is right in claiming the melody has been changed...the original goes up a full octave to reach the high note, while djp modifies the interval to a minor 6th.

Now let's turn our attention towards the sections within the blue perimeters. In Pachelbel's Ganon, the chord in the left hand is a very obvious C minor tonic (C-Eb-G), matching the high C note in the melody. In the original piece, we see the notes in the accompaniment trace out a F-C-F-A-D-E. If you're a good little music student, you'll know that you arrange those notes a bit so that they're in consecutive thirds, resulting in D-F-A-C-E. And BAM...a D-minor (with extra 7th and 9th extensions), which corresponds with the high D.

But wait! Does this mean djp is WRONG? Has he lost the battle of ears, falling into the rest of the inferior 99.9% of the population while conker emerges the victor?? Don't worry, dear ReMixers, there's still hope for our beloved choker-of-presidents.

( Here's where the fun comes in)

Let's go back to those key signature thingamabobbers I was talking about earlier. We've already established the original goes to a B after the high D. But does it stop there? Oh no...it decides to take it to the XTREEEEM and drop even lower, to the G (as indicated by the dotted lines). So we have a G, an B, and a D...put them together and what have you got? Bippity-boppity-G major! In djp's arrangement, we can tell from the main notes (C-Eb-G-Bb) that it's obviously in C-minor. To be put it simply, this means he completely decimated the original major key, as promised, and replaced it with a minor substitute. In this key signature, the C-minor chord acts as a simple tonic, while in the original key, G-Major, the D-minor would function as...well, I don't even know. Is there a theory major in the house?

Anyway, in conclusion, while for a moment the two do indeed coincide, one quickly realizes their differences in the context of their respective pieces as a whole. Something that you might not realize, conker, is that just because you can play the original melody of a song over a chord progression doesn't mean it's the same as the original...the fact that every chord consists of three tones means that there are an almost limitless number of possibilities for any given sequence of notes.

Of course, like I mentioned, everything I just said might be completely wrong. If there happen to be any PhD's reading this, feel free to thoroughly slap me for any, errr..."Fouled Up" Disinformation I've spread. But regardless of who ends up having the last laugh...

[djpretzel]

So immediately, we can acknowledge that conker is right in claiming the melody has been changed...the original goes up a full octave to reach the high note, while djp modifies the interval to a minor 6th.

...

But wait! Does this mean djp is WRONG? Has he lost the battle of ears, falling into the rest of the inferior 99.9% of the population while conker emerges the victor?? Don't worry, dear ReMixers, there's still hope for our beloved choker-of-presidents.

( Here's where the fun comes in)

Let's go back to those key signature thingamabobbers I was talking about earlier. We've already established the original goes to a B after the high D. But does it stop there? Oh no...it decides to take it to the XTREEEEM and drop even lower, to the G (as indicated by the dotted lines). So we have a G, an B, and a D...put them together and what have you got? Bippity-boppity-G major!

Thanks; sounds good to me. The melody isn't EXACTLY the same - I should have added in an "almost" due to the noticeable interval change. I was also only referring to the first half of the phrase, the second half having nothing to do with the original at all. To me, "almost exactly" means "easily recognizable", which in this instance I think it is. This is why the helpful diagram qualified the statement.

When you said that there is a G major chord in the middle of the progression, honestly, how is this "decimating" the chord progression. Though the chord is not exactly transposed, sometimes a nice subsitute spicens up the remix, and that it does.

It's not just ONE substitution for one chord, it's the whole progression, friend. It's different. Whole darn thing. It's not rhythmically the same, either, I might add. Basically, take away the melody, and you'd have no real clue it was a Zelda mix. You really need to come to grips with this and stop arguing back with weak statements that only address a SINGLE chord. The ENTIRE progression is changed. Any music theory class should have taught you enough to know this, or even just looking at the MIDI files.

Now, if you wanna make a criticism like "you dumbed down the chord progression" or "I like the original chord progression better", those are both FINE opinions. But if you try to insist it's very similar and that very little was changed, you come off as laughable from a factual perspective, and still don't seem to get that more than one chord has been changed, even when the files are right in front of you. Let me repeat: the files are right in front of you. Listen to them. Look at them. Compare them. PLEASE.

So what if I dont have strong english skills? Doesn't mean I am not right here. And all you ass lickers out there trying to hold your faith to DJP, I dont care what you say. I really dont. DJP can hold his own grounds, and he's doing a fine job of it.

I'm not worried that we don't understand what you're trying to say, but I *am* worried that you're not understanding us, although I'm not sure how much clearer I can make things. I posted the two MIDI files, I posted the chart, you can see for yourself, the progression is clearly NOT the same. It's not that one chord has been "substituted", it's that ALL chords have been substituted, and the rhythm altered as well. If you want to spend any more time convincing anyone that you're right, explain how a chord progression that shares not a SINGLE chord in common with the original is somehow only a small change.

Anyways, here you go.

Me playing some random piece. Dizzy Fingers by Zez Confrey.

http://www.freehomepages.com/psychao/PianoPlayers/Dizzy%20Fingers%20Played%20by%20the%20one%20and%20only%20Rayyan

Me playing the awesome King Of Hyrule Piece

http://www.freehomepages.com/psychao/PianoPlayers/King%20of%20Hyrule%20Played%20by%20the%20one%20and%20only%20Rayyan

A couple of old compositions (they are part of one collection) - which I actually want to finish... :

1) http://www.freehomepages.com/psychao/PianoPlayers/Rayyan's%20Composition%201

2)

http://www.freehomepages.com/psychao/PianoPlayers/Rayyan's%20Composition%202

Well, thanks for at least showing us you're not some entirely crazy person who's never even touched a musical instrument. A couple recommendations:

Better recording equipment. A $10 tape recorder from Radio Shack would be an improvement.

Remove "The One and Only" from file names

[djpretzel]

ok then, you were right on one thing, and I was right on the other

Your original statement that hardly anything was changed and that I "really didn't do much" was the only real point of contention for me, and I'm glad you admit now that this is incorrect. In the future, since you now know that you can be wrong about something, I recommend not boasting about being in the 99.9th percentile of anything or touting degrees, but instead arguing your case based on its merits.

As for being "on your ass" - $10 from radio shack LITERALLY could do better. The comment was sarcastic but also very true. I recommend asking around our ReMixing forum for assistance, because even with very limited resources, better results can be produced, and have been.

[PSI Fools Omega]

This work is one of the reasons OCRemix is in the pole position of my favorites bar. Outstanding work.

[Schmancy]

[disclaimer]Regardless of my not-even-close-to-perfect in most forms of artistic creation, I tend to be overly critical and analytical about all forms of art, merely because I personally prefer constructive criticism to compliment. If anything below sounds like an insult, apologies in advance.[/disclaimer]

By far one of my favorite works by you. Having puns in remixes is always fun, but having a pun that actually DOES describe the song, rather some mere alliteration or rhyme that doesn't match the style at all, is especially interesting. The mood of the song and chord progressions are so very different from the original, but that's what makes a good remix so much better, in my opinion--originality. The mixture of electronica and natural sound samples (which are all of very good quality in this) was cleverly done. One of the best I saw was combining the natural flute-like instrument with the electronica, airy-feeling instrument, playing the same melody in unison (Holy Voice, or something?). Kind of like two brothers that are nothing alike coming together. Okay, that was cheesy. But really, everything blended and meshed together quite nicely, and the rhythmic figures didn't get tired.

The early introduction of the fuzzy electronica along with the entrance of the "Canon" theme on the cello was a well done necessity. Kind of more of an easy-in than a break-in, and bringing in the light percussion pattern that early was nice, too. More on the originality, the change in time signature of "Zelda's Lullaby" was quite well done. Nifty, even. It matched a Canon pattern through, yet didn't get repetative, as sad arrangements on Pachelbel's sometimes do. The nylon guitar interlude was unexpected, but pleasant. Triplets inserted into a style with figures like these are almost unheard of, and yet it was so...fitting, here.

Man, I need to expand my vocabulary.

I definetly liked the chord structures. It completely deviated from the original in terms of theory, yet with mood, remained a rhythmic solemn, which is difficult to do when taking a lullaby and synthesizing it. Dandy fine.

[Heyjohnny]

I love how calming this song is. i woke up in the morning once craving to hear this song....and I didn't even know the name of it. I went through all of my zelda remixes until I found it, and then put it on repeat and went back to sleep. I absolutely love this song.

[Kozmo]

very soothing and easy to listen to

[undinesfire]

I've been listening to this for months and still loving it. Beautifully well done.

[Strider Kyoden]

How have I ignored this mix in my playlist for so long!? DjP...You really outdid yourself on this one. I put it on a mix and have been playing it at work. That is until the boss man told me no more of my music... Yeah. That's right. People at subway enjoy listening to your mixes, along with the rest of the OCR crew. I'm pleased there are mixes as beautiful as this one. A Pleasant alternative to listening to country...*Sigh* There needs to be a OCR Radio Station! And this song needs to be played hourly!

[AMDgeek]

This is a beautiful representation of musical talent. I cannot describe the mood that music such as this instills in me. I find myself unable to describe the appreciation I have for this mix.

The alterations made from the original melody were nothing less than brilliant. The source material is good, but this ReMix, to me, stands out as something else. Something better than great. Astronomical, perhaps? I find that this ReMix contains the best of both inspirations; the source material AND Pachelbel's Canon. Quite elegant and refined, indeed.

Again, I cannot express the appreciation I have for this fine piece of art. In the sugar-coated version, "Nothing short of excellent".

I personally feel this is one of your best works, DJP.

-AMDgeek

[vega21]

seductively great!!!!!

[tabular]

It's a really relaxing song, not really busy; at the same time, it has a bit of a substance to it, not really simplistic. I appreciate the title theme being incorportated into a remix. It's usually one of the more ignored things... not many people I know really listen to the title, or watch it, from all of the people I've met.

I love the sounds and tones incorportated, so many to express notes that someone would be familiar with, but still, with a nice balance of all of the additional parts too, while not cancelling the base song out, don't fade into the background. It manages to deviate from the original, but take on it's own sort of feeling as well.

I'm quite guilty of relistening to this song many times over, It's not something that really gets annoying quickly. It's definetly one of the best songs -- remixes -- that I've heard for a while. It's obvious that thought was put into the composition. It's definetly one of my favorites.

[Zera]

Of all the wonderful remixes on this site, this one still holds a place in my heart as my favorite. This piece was what made me decide to join the forums here.

I really can't describe how I first felt when I listened to the song. As a fan of Classical and game music alike, this creativly named, relaxing piece still to this day remains my very favorite.

[nicholai_maelstrom]

Breathless... that's the one word that I must say that this remix has left me... It's nowhere near what I was expecting with a Ganon song, but... dear God, the music is as free-flowing as the rivers of time themselves... It's just a smooth, beautiful transition that moves through the very essence of my soul... by all means, keep up the excellent work...

[OrgasmoTheFlyingMoose]

OK, I am very, very new to the forums and the website but I must say that this is already one of my favorite pieces. Like others have already said the emotions that this piece conjurs up inside me are undescribable. I enjoy listening to this piece over, and over again. This truly is a masterpiece.

Of all the music I have ever listened too, I cannot recall any other work that has moved me as much as this piece has. Keep up the great work!

[Nekoyaki]

DJP is my new hero for this.

[greenyoshieggz]

still remains on my top five... good work djp