Chrono Trigger - Manoria Cathedral ReMix

[Robotaki]

Hey again guys!

Soo, I've tried to tackle an under-remixed tune from Chrono Trigger: Manoria Cathedral. To be honest, this meant to be an attempt at an Earthbound - Skyrunner ReMix...I'm still keeping it as an idea, because there are a few chords that could fit in perfectly.

ANYWAYS, Right now, the melody isn't too prevalent throughout the piece because I'm finding a suitable instrument for it to be played on. Hopefully you guys are alright with the few liberties I took with the melody in terms of rhythm. It was necessary since I switched time signatures from the original. Hope you guys enjoy it, and feel free to comment and critique!

*Oh yeah, I'm nooo good with titles. See if anything pops in your heads!

ORIGINAL:

LINKAGE:

Old Version: Chrono Trigger - Manoria Cathedral ReMix Old

NEW VERSION: Chrono Trigger - Manoria Cathedral ReMix NEW

CHANGES TO BE MADE:

1. drum variation.

2. melodic variation.

3. EQing.

CHANGES MADE SO FAR:

1. new harmonic section (3:12 onwards).

2. changed drum samples.

3. worked on production a bit.

[Rozovian]

This is pretty good. Good samples, good intro, and it doesn't sound dissimilar from the midi file I used for comparison.

At 0:58, some choir-like stuff comes in, really low key, and in the wrong key too, or so it sounds. The piano section and about 2:00 is really cool. Just give it more life by humanizing velocities and whatever else fits. The break that follows, at about 2:35 comes a little too quickly, or then the rhythmic clicking at the beginning of it makes it feel off. It might just be me, but try something else with that transition.

And it needs an ending. Actually, that's what it needs more than anything else. The theme, played on piano, forte, might do it. Power up the drums there, too, and you've got yourself what I might suggest handing over to the judges. But as you've stated yourself, there's lacing and varying to be done. That should only improve it more.

Hard to compare notes between the original and the remix, but you know better than anyone how close this is to the original. If it's within the circa 50% range, you're probably getting a *YES*. But, an ending, and the edits you already know to do. That's unless my speakers failed to reveal some critical flaws. I should use headphones for this.

Oh and, no. Don't mix in something from another game. It's at a really good length as it is, and like the judges seem to, I don't like using themes from different games (at least not from different game series).

[John Revoredo]

This begins really cool. Nice flava.

Some sexy drumming, I'd even put the snare drum more metallic.. but that's just a thing of my tastes LOL.

Loved the semi-background piano.

Ugh.. wait a sec... lead flute? LOL Flute wasn't the right option.. maybe you didn't have to put a lead theme there!.. this is sweet as atmospheric.

Then comes some keyboarding and hot eq-ing play. I really liked that.

In 1:55 comes a hot transition... however it doesn't feel like a total transition...So, i woul instead put some half-silence bars before (without drums..but with some instrumental stuff)... that would make the change stronger.

Reversed bell sounds? Whoa.. that's REALLY sexy.

I'm freaking diggin this. You know what could make this perfect?

A huge drum mix, ... like this:

or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gbum-dJTuI

(i'd even advise to get a decent quality version of the mp3 tunes.)

Also, you could do some good stuff with some scratching-gear

.. but that is hell expensive!!

Anyways, good work , mate!. Your tunes have never let me down.

[HoboKa]

LoL...I'd kill for your samples and filter techniques dude lol. This is very phat man. I'm sorry I'm not very good at critiqueing, all I can say is that this is definately going in the right direction, and it's a lot better than my nub work

[Monobrow]

Hey,

Always interested in your stuff... I like this a lot.

So far my only qualm is that as there is a lot of atmospheric reverbish elements throughout the entire song, it starts to go from sounding cool to me feeling like everything is a little muddy in the middle, just because my ears become so used to it...If you take out these elements at select places (just a couple) or lessen them for transitions, I think they'd have a more dynamic effect overall.

Also, suggestion: At 2:35. you chill things out and take away the drums etc... I REALLY REALLY think maybe an organ playing some chords would really be cool Cathedral reference here, so if you have anything like organ3 or any decent organ samples, play some chords! You have some of those nice reverby chill things going on here, but you could always lessen them just a tad for some organ... It'd add some great contrast and nods to the original IMO...

But yeah, it's just my humble opinion.

Good luck!

[HoboKa]

Organ3? I need some good organ samples myself T_T

[Robotaki]

damn man, that's a crazy idea. some really spacey, out of this world, old-record sounding organ playing at 2:35. you knwo what, that idea's just crazy enough to work, I love it! thanks a bunch! I can see how if I make some room for the organ at that section, it'd give enough contrast to keep the listener's attention. do you think drum variation throughout the piece would also help with this?

Let's see, what else, ah

Prometheus, flute...yeahhhh, I dun think that was a good idea at all. I want to put in another instrument or synth there, but I'm not too sure what'd go well. I'll experiment with other stuff. Thanks for pointing that out though =)

Rozovian, I'll fix up the chord screw up at 0:58. I don't know what happened but I'll go look at all the patterns playing at that moment. probz just a little mishap.

Sweet stuff so far guys, and thanks a lot. Lots of things I wouldn't have picked out or come up with without your help!

[Ab56 v2 aka Ash]

I rip on everybody on irc (especially zircon), but man, this is the shit.

[AMT]

Yeah, some drum variation would definitely help. Some fills or slicing it up some would sound awesome and keep them from getting too repetitive. That whole part with the cricket chirp around 2:20ish or so sounds awesome, but a few of the chirps sound a little off time, and I think it'd sound better if all of them were still on time with the track. Other than that and the stuff mentioned above, keep working on this and this will pass for sure, this is some awesome stuff!

[Radiowar]

Opening reminds me of Efterklang a bit. Really nice sounds here, the piano isn't the greatest but it's alright. What is that instrument doubling the piano melody? Seems too shrill compared to all those bell/piano sounds you have going on, I don't think it fits so well...Those strings in the background are a really nice touch though.

Aw man the change up totally threw off the groove...Feels like it's missing something. The fact that the drums don't change up at all doesn't help, but I don't think they need to change. This section feels like it needs to be this huge powerful changeup, only the way it is now it is less powerful than the part before it. dunno if that makes any sense.

This is really cool though, keep it up.

[Robotaki]

Thanks for the advice guys. Really helpful. So what I've got so far:

1. Drum variation

2. Change that flute sample (or just take it out)

3. 2:20 - I'll put some of the chirps on beat, since all of them are generally offbeat as of right now.

4. The 2:33 changeup section - I'm thinking maybe I can have drums filtered with the lowend cutoff so that the momentum isn't totally destroyed, but there's some room without the drums constantly jarring your heads. Sound alright?

Thanks a bunch again!

[metaphist]

Know what I think would be REALLY dope? If you somehow incorporated the three-chord-riff that opens the door to the cathedral (you know, when your in the lobby part and are trying to get in).

[jigwolf]

Yeh! I like this one, very mellow, very Chrono Trigger.

That deserves to sit with the rest of the mixes as it is.

[Beoulve]

This is very smooth, I love it.

[DragonAvenger]

Ya, I dled this a while ago. I like it, finish.

Seriously, I like what you did with the source. Great interpretation, love when it goes into major.

My only gripe is I'm not hearing too much interpretation on the melody. Maybe vary it a few times?

[Radiowar]

i keep coming back to this thread to listen to this song

fiiiiinish it

after listening to it a bunch of times i think you can ignore my last post. just put an ending in there and it's perfect.

[Tuned Logic]

Yes, I agree! Please finish this!

[zircon]

Wow, the beginning is excellent. I really like this concept overall. So I'm going to nitpick.

* Snare sample is a little too bright.. I would go with a different one, with the same kind of thwap, but not so much of a pop-genre sound, a la boy bands... the hat(s) could also be a little less like impulse clicks and more like real hats.

* I like the addition of the piano and think that element could be playing even more jazzy solo material.

* Not feeling the wind instrument at :55, the low strings also seem a little bit like they don't fit. Maybe it's just the sample (for the strings.)

* The drum groove definitely could be changed up more.

* In general I think you should go for the smooth groove & jazzy chillout angle... eg, the stuff at 1:36 is excellent.

* Bringing out the melody more via another layered instrument would not hurt.

* The change to major at 1:55 is a bit sudden. I'd fill this out with pads more. The melody doesn't seem to translate entirely well, so maybe look at that again. Piano is playing a bit too high up. Good time to introduce more drum layers. Again, some jazzy stuff involving the diminished fifth would be cool.

* The breakdown at 2:33 is sick, but the transition is a LITTLE sudden.. give a little more room to breathe and ease it in more somehow. The strings seem to work way better in this section. Love the reverses and the spacey atmosphere.

* 3:13 definitely needs some new drums or drum layers. Some soloing perhaps? More new parts. I like the part immediately following in terms of the kick changing and the PSO style leads.

* 3:31 - some of the harmonies in this section don't quite jive 100% with the riffs going on (like the 1 - 5 - 8 etc square wave riff in the left ear)

* 3:51 stuttering is SICK.. love it!!!!

* THEN IT CUTS OUT WTF

I am really impressed with this so far, man. One of the best remix concepts I've heard in awhile; a VERY creative take on an under-appreciated tune. Please put in all the extra polish to make this a legend!

[zircon]

OK, I'm double posting because this is so good. I'd YES it as is if it had an ending, and now that I've heard it like 10 times I feel like I could overlook a lot of the stuff I mentioned. I'd say the main things I'd point out now;

* Drum variation (which you already know)

* Snare possibly being changed/toned down a bit (pitched down perhaps)

* Chords at :53, 3:31 section a bit off at times w/ harmony riffs.. maybe a few other places, just double check 'em

* Ending needed (mine cuts out at 4:00 - is this correct?)

* 1:55 - maybe layer another instrument on top of piano, add'l pads..

[HoboKa]

ohhh the envy - I wish Mr. Aversa would double post me!!

0_o

Wait, that sounds kinda wrong, oh well

[Skrypnyk]

You may congratulate zircon for showing me this and making this my 1000th post.

The beginning of this song is down right SEXY. Like I love love love love the sound coming from it, and the chords are just really really really sexy.

Right at the beginning, whatever that sine synth is, it sounds awesome, however it's making little click sounds, really really tiny, but it builds as that part goes on. I think if you increase the attack JUST enough, you can get rid of that click and keep the overall sound.

The other thing that kind of bothered me was the click of the hat. Now, I'm assuming you're using a drumloop, or samples that go really well together. But there's this outstanding click click, click, click, that doesn't really fit in. The tis hats are fine and you should keep them, but the clicks are more or less in the way of everything else. I too also think you need to splice up the overall sound of the drums for fills and whatnot.

Or, ask a certain someone to contribute some sexing drumming. (:3)

Those are my main issues. Tweak/polish that which you think needs it and you're all set. If you do not finish this however, I will hunt you down and strangle you.

kthxs

[Nicole Adams]

* In general I think you should go for the smooth groove & jazzy chillout angle... eg, the stuff at 1:36 is excellent.

I agree. Listen to this guy for some examples.

You have done a great job so far and I am really looking forward to the finished product. Great song choice, too. We need more Manoria love.

[ambient]

I really like this. I will definitely be following this mix. And Skrypo could definitely add some sick drummage to this piece (just listen to Back 2 Skala). Although I do think that your drums show a lot of promise and could be great with some variation.

[Spc1st]

I agree with most of what's said here, though I didn't actually mind too much the drum samples and the "wrong" chords. One thing that slightly bothered me was the marcato string ostinato chords that are used - it kind of sounds out of place to me, since this piece is otherwise very fluid in nature. The string chord sort of contradicts that feel... well it might just be a personal feeling though; it's definitely not enough to ruin the piece for me. Good job.

[Robotaki]

Holy smokes I didn't even know this topic was still alive =O Great surprise though, because there are tons of great comments here. I "believe" I have now taken care of the snare sample, the chordal issues, that little click at the beginning of each sine synth, cleared up some of the EQing, and that horrid oboesque instrument that layers on the melody. I plan to get towards actually adding an ending and doing a LOT of drum variation. Does anyone know a good *cough* (free) drum slicer that has reverse or slow down capabilities?

I am, however, having trouble including the three chords that are played at the beginning of the Manora Cathedral piece. They don't seem to fit anywhere other than the beginning unfortunately (well, that's where it is originally lol). I could be missing something really obvious.

btw, I just tried fitting a cathedral organ in here, and it sounds pretty ballin.

Thanks again to all for the constructive criticism. It's a great help!