Super Smash Bros Brawl

[FlagshipAmadeus]

Well, I feel that being able to play well with items and randomness in the stages is skill at SSB, actually one might even say that it takes more skill to play well with elements of the unknown than in a plain and completely predictable environment.

[Eulogic]

But it does add a factor of randomness that you want to avoid in a tournament.

Not to mention that people talk about "items on" or "items off," but there are far more settings than that. When I play with friends (in Melee...I haven't played Brawl yet), I typically play with items on very low and about half of them turned off. Pretty much everyone I've ever known, no matter what level they play at, turns off starman, heart container, and maxim tomato. I also usually have hammer, the mushrooms, cloaking device, and some other items off. I'll change it up every few months. I'll even turn items off completely for a while. This has to do with how I enjoy playing the game, not with an obsession with fairness. I can beat the shit out of my friends regardless of settings.

Same goes for stages. I turn about half of 'em off and do random every time (or occasionally just select Final Destination). I've never played anyone who leaves Icicle Mountain on random select.

Even though I usually play with some items on and on a variety of stages, "items off, Final Destination" is still a fun way to play the game. Randomness does not always equal fun.

[Rad McRadderson]

Well, I feel that being able to play well with items and randomness in the stages is skill at SSB, actually one might even say that it takes more skill to play well with elements of the unknown than in a plain and completely predictable environment.

So if someone is down a stock and he is on the other side of the stage and he happens to get a really good item that spawns on his side of the stage and he comes back and wins you are telling me that requires more skill? Even though the item was just as likely to spawn on the side of the stage with the person who was winning, sealing his victory? Because to me that sounds like the match is decided with a coin flip, the opposite of skill.

[Triad Orion]

You're posting a rather extreme happening, there. I see what you're trying to get at, but, I agree that learning to adept and deal with random crap is an element of skill. Now some things, like the Heart Container or Starman, really throw the game for a loop, but if you turn those off, items and stage happenings are a part of dealing with the game.

Now, I'm no tourney player by any stretch of imagination, but the spastic nature of SSB has always been forefront, in my opinion. Therefore, I see the experience diluted with the more random stuff turned off and playing on relatively static stages. Of course, that's not the only way to play the game, but I think I'll be really happy to see Brawl actually upping the amount of adaptation you have to do. I personally think that it will add to the experience more than detract from it.

[Conan-the-3rd]

So if someone is down a stock and he is on the other side of the stage and he happens to get a really good item that spawns on his side of the stage and he comes back and wins you are telling me that requires more skill? Even though the item was just as likely to spawn on the side of the stage with the person who was winning, sealing his victory? Because to me that sounds like the match is decided with a coin flip, the opposite of skill.

Couse, if you can't get out of the way of the baseball bat, that's your problem.

[cobaltstarfire]

So if someone is down a stock and he is on the other side of the stage and he happens to get a really good item that spawns on his side of the stage and he comes back and wins you are telling me that requires more skill? Even though the item was just as likely to spawn on the side of the stage with the person who was winning, sealing his victory? Because to me that sounds like the match is decided with a coin flip, the opposite of skill.

Yeah uh, items aren't that hard to deal with, avoid being hit and knock the item out of their grasp, it's pretty easy.

That said I do turn some items off just cause they aren't that fun to have around. But playing with some items on is definitely a lot more interesting than no items at all.

[Dhsu]

Yeah uh, items aren't that hard to deal with, avoid being hit and knock the item out of their grasp, it's pretty easy.

Smash Bros is easy, just don't lose any stocks.

[BardicKnowledge]

The real issue with items in tourney play is that items make whoever gets them artificially better -- no matter who you're playing against, if you get a beam sword and he doesn't, you now have an advantage.

Similarly, if you're in the middle of an attack that gets canceled out by an exploding item capsule spawning right in front of you, it's not your fault that you died -- it's just random chance. Tourneys have to eliminate BOTH of these situations in order to ensure fair play.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

Holy dejavu, batman!

[atmuh]

I played brawl a TON, and for the first 60 hours of so i left all items on and left them on high with all stages on because the new stuff was interesting and i enjoyed it

then everything got annoying so i went back to playing like melee with everything off in only a few places and it got a LOT more fun

ibanez is right and youre all wrong

[Castle]

This is why Jigglypuff's FS is awesome:

And some other video (fixed to prevent misinformation):

Olimar vs. Metaknight

[BardicKnowledge]

^That video isn't quite clear -- Olimar seems to be able to throw extra Pikmin to hit someone off of the edge in advance. Would the Ice Climbers or ZSS have that advantage as well?

[atmuh]

actually that video shows absolutely nothing

the only pikmin that would knock him off are the purple ones, the rest latch on and do damage but have no knockback at all

the basic problem with the tether recovery is that if someone is edgehogging and you use your tether it will hit them but not grab the ledge

this happens to me often, as my main is olimar

[oppoppo]

I've heard that the same voice actress that does Krystal in Star Fox Assault does Krystal in Brawl. Does anyone know if she's an assist trophy or if she just talks like when you do that trick in Melee with Fox or Falco on Corneria.

[Tables]

I've heard that the same voice actress that does Krystal in Star Fox Assault does Krystal in Brawl. Does anyone know if she's an assist trophy or if she just talks like when you do that trick in Melee with Fox or Falco on Corneria.

I saw a video where someone did that trick on the new Star Fox level (the name escapes me) and Krystal was part of that.

edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMCHwlAnAHg

[Drack]

actually that video shows absolutely nothing

the only pikmin that would knock him off are the purple ones, the rest latch on and do damage but have no knockback at all

the basic problem with the tether recovery is that if someone is edgehogging and you use your tether it will hit them but not grab the ledge

this happens to me often, as my main is olimar

Atma is correct here. The Olimar in that video is an exception, he had a purple pikmin ready against the edge hog. And the Metaknight tried the melee-style slowly get up from the ledge move, which doesn't work in Brawl (only a few 100% plus get ups will hog the ledge for more than an instant). Again, bad edgehogging example.

By showing the exception rather than the rule, you're spreading misinformation.

[L.T.W.]

I played brawl a TON, and for the first 60 hours of so i left all items on and left them on high with all stages on because the new stuff was interesting and i enjoyed it

then everything got annoying so i went back to playing like melee with everything off in only a few places and it got a LOT more fun

ibanez is right and youre all wrong

Actually now that both my friend and I have a lot more skill in Melee, we turn the items off and have LOTS of fun, every now and then we turn them on but in very low, obviously leaving HC and MT off.

[oppoppo]

I saw a video where someone did that trick on the new Star Fox level (the name escapes me) and Krystal was part of that.

edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMCHwlAnAHg

Ah, thanks much. I was a lil disappointed at first but I got over it since there is a slight chance that everyone else (or at least Falco) might have their english Assault voice because of Krystal.

[Castle]

Atma is correct here. The Olimar in that video is an exception, he had a purple pikmin ready against the edge hog. And the Metaknight tried the melee-style slowly get up from the ledge move, which doesn't work in Brawl (only a few 100% plus get ups will hog the ledge for more than an instant). Again, bad edgehogging example.

By showing the exception rather than the rule, you're spreading misinformation.

Ah, my bad. There was one point where he tossed a blue pikmin, but I wasn't paying attention to notice that Meta was just doing the slowly get up style. Fixed to prevent anymore misinformation.

[Diabloshadow]

I saw a video where someone did that trick on the new Star Fox level (the name escapes me) and Krystal was part of that.

edit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMCHwlAnAHg

Looks like alot of possible conversations will be had.

PLUS, RRRRRWWAARRRR-Panther.

[Wipomatic]

Is it just me or does Brawl have a load more glitches than Melee ever had?

[Diabloshadow]

Is it just me or does Brawl have a load more glitches than Melee ever had?

More so I think "more" people are actually looking for them. Many a person are still sad they cant do their old melee habits so they are looking for new ones.

[Rad McRadderson]

Couse, if you can't get out of the way of the baseball bat, that's your problem.

Getting out of the way of the baseball bat isn't the problem, it's the fact that he arbitrarily has an advantage over you due to luck where the item spawned.

As for it being an extreme example, I don't think so at all. Many a match of melee has had people on the wrong end of a short hop laser or turnip spam, and a lucky item can cause the person who was in control of the match to lose for no other reason than the bad luck of the item spawning on the other side of the stage, instead of close to them.

Considering there are still projectiles in Brawl I'm sure there will be characters who's gameplay revolves around using these to control space and items can ruin that for them for no reason other than luck. Until items get put into specific spawn points with specific respawn times FPS style, they will ever be viable for any serious play.

[Wipomatic]

serious play

That's an oxymoron if ever I heard one.

[Azul v2]

Until items get put into specific spawn points with specific respawn times FPS style, they will ever be viable for any serious play.

BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW