Metal Gear Solid, PS1 or GC version?

[Shadow Wolf]

I'll have to disagree with you there. What about "the best is yet to come"? GHW did do the the theme well in MGS2 though. The clasic MGS theme is in the original (unless i'm completely retarded). There are a couple versions, the one from E3 in Atlanta is my fav. I'm having trouble remembering where it played in game, so maybe it was just used in demo's and commercials and such.

I was going to mention that one exception, and I totally forgot to. Rika Muranaka did an astounding job on that particular song, it was a perfect ending to the game. It's the only song from the original MGS I have loaded up into iTunes.

As far as the MGS theme goes, I've beaten the game several times, unlocked all the fun stuff, and I don't ever remember hearing it. It's distinctly possible Hibino wrote it and they used it in Promos and stuff, but it never got any title screen love until Virtual Missions.

[Poke'G]

I'd recommend Twin Snakes. I played both, but Twin Snakes before MGS2. As such, I was used to all the new gameplay mechanics MGS2 had. If you're going to play these back to back, it's the way to go.

I really didn't notice a "decline" in voice acting, as aside from Gray Fox (Rob Paulsen didn't fit at all), it was all the same people. The Ninja is even made up to be a bigger threat in Twin Snakes. As for music in the first MGS, the only thing I remember is "The Best is Yet to Come" (and it is amazing) which, if I remember right, is still in Twin Snakes.

The first person mode does make the game easier, but the new AI does counter that. Many of my older hiding places weren't so safe.

As for the new choreography, Snake is a super soldier and we got to see what that means.

I am trying to see the complaints for the GameCube version, but most of them I can't see be anything other than nostalgia. If you despise the MGS2 mechanics in general, hate Rob Paulsen or Ryuhei Kitamura, or have a "thing" for Playstation's grainy polygons, play Solid. Otherwise, Twin Snakes.

[Dunther]

I've played MGS in italian first and than the Twin Snakes in English and I preferred the english voice for the Ninja. After Twin Snakes, I searched to the original voice and I still like more the TS one.

Here's some examples:

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=w8Y92YLv7iA

http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=XX_nxAVqi88&feature=related

[EdgeCrusher]

I played the PSX version numerous times, and loved it to death. The GC version I played through and beat once, and never looked back. It was just not rememberable. Only thing that pops in my head is the stupid matrix shit added to the cutscenes actually.

[Necrotic]

I've seen this argument a lot lately. I'll give some of my opinions on the whole dealie:

I always felt the PS1 version was the definitive version. The voice acting in the original was more convincing, especially since the characters who had accents somehow lost their power to convey that in Twin Snakes, even if they were the same actor. Plus, the original Grey Fox voice was lost. Considering the PS1 version is what Kojima envisioned, I don't care if you prefer the new voice, that particular voice actor is the Grey Fox for millions of people who've played MGS1 compared to a handful that played Twin Snakes.

I found the music during key moments in the PS1 to be particularly memorable whereas the versions in Twin Snakes weren't as powerful.

The gameplay in MGS1 is entirely different from the gameplay of Twin Snakes/MGS2, and one of my favourite things about the MGS series is seeing how the gameplay evolved. I feel like in the transfer over to MGS2 style gameplay, something was lost in MGS for me. Mostly, it was difficulty.

Snake's character was retarded in Twin Snakes. He's not an acrobat. He's not jacked into the goddamn Matrix. He's a soldier. He has endurance, yes, but he's not capable of pulling off half the shit that goes on in Twin Snakes.

MGS1 was a working machine with all the cogs in place, and it worked so well in its simplicity, when you start adding in more to the formula it started to feel like that machine was wearing down pretty quickly. I never finished it, and I do recommend that someone who's played the PS1 version gives it a try afterwards because it's interesting to see the MGS2 gameplay superimposed in MGS1, but it's not a replacement.

[Fenrir]

Snake's character was retarded in Twin Snakes. He's not an acrobat. He's not jacked into the goddamn Matrix. He's a soldier. He has endurance, yes, but he's not capable of pulling off half the shit that goes on in Twin Snakes.

Snake can't do freakin' backflips, jump off of missiles, dodging bullets Matrix style, or any of that.

Snake's a goddamn super soldier. He shouldn't be able to get back up after half the shit he gets hit by, and you want to nitpick over some fucking action sequences? Jumping off a missile is just as stupid as being able to get back up after getting slammed by a tank round or razed by Vulcan Raven's machine gun. OR carrying around twelve different guns, or having nanomachines that make it so you don't have to eat.

Who knew someone was going to play the REALISM card in fucking METAL GEAR SOLID game.

[Poke'G]

I've seen this argument a lot lately. I'll give some of my opinions on the whole dealie:

I always felt the PS1 version was the definitive version. The voice acting in the original was more convincing, especially since the characters who had accents somehow lost their power to convey that in Twin Snakes, even if they were the same actor. Plus, the original Grey Fox voice was lost. Considering the PS1 version is what Kojima envisioned, I don't care if you prefer the new voice, that particular voice actor is the Grey Fox for millions of people who've played MGS1 compared to a handful that played Twin Snakes.

I found the music during key moments in the PS1 to be particularly memorable whereas the versions in Twin Snakes weren't as powerful.

The gameplay in MGS1 is entirely different from the gameplay of Twin Snakes/MGS2, and one of my favourite things about the MGS series is seeing how the gameplay evolved. I feel like in the transfer over to MGS2 style gameplay, something was lost in MGS for me. Mostly, it was difficulty.

Snake's character was retarded in Twin Snakes. He's not an acrobat. He's not jacked into the goddamn Matrix. He's a soldier. He has endurance, yes, but he's not capable of pulling off half the shit that goes on in Twin Snakes.

MGS1 was a working machine with all the cogs in place, and it worked so well in its simplicity, when you start adding in more to the formula it started to feel like that machine was wearing down pretty quickly. I never finished it, and I do recommend that someone who's played the PS1 version gives it a try afterwards because it's interesting to see the MGS2 gameplay superimposed in MGS1, but it's not a replacement.

I'd say the shared gameplay between the remake and 2 makes the two more compatible with one another. I finished Twin Snakes, popped in Sons of Liberty, and it felt like I never stopped playing.

As for what Kojima envisioned and such, keep in mind MGS2 had arms taking over the brain, acrobatic vampires, and other not quite as feasible material. Super Soldier Snake falls much more in line with the craziness of Sons of Liberty. Not to mention he let a close friend, Ryuhei Kitamura (Kojima has cameoed in several of his films), do those cutscenes. Twin Snakes and Sons of Liberty both have a very epic "Hollywood blockbuster" feel to their cutscenes, something that the original Solid did not. I'm not saying Twin Snakes is the definitive version, just that you can't say the original is either. There's as much of an argument for as there is against.

[The Pezman]

Yeah, I definitely agree. If you want to point to definitive reasons as to why you believe Twin Snakes is worse (such as the voice acting or the music) that's fine. But I'm really tired of this "you ruined a classic" mentality. Games and movies are remade quite frequently, and NOT ALL OF THEM SUCK.

[Necrotic]

Yeah, I definitely agree. If you want to point to definitive reasons as to why you believe Twin Snakes is worse (such as the voice acting or the music) that's fine. But I'm really tired of this "you ruined a classic" mentality. Games and movies are remade quite frequently, and NOT ALL OF THEM SUCK.

To clear something up, I don't think Twin Snakes is bad. In my post I even mentioned I think it's worth playing. But even after playing it, I find it harder not to regard the original as a more complete Metal Gear experience. Twin Snakes has a lot of cool bonuses, and like I said, having MGS2 gameplay superimposed on MGS1 makes for a completely different kind of experience. Whether or not you consider that experience to be better is up to you.

Also, Poke'G, I already know about the story behind the choreography of the cutscenes. My point still remains. It doesn't fit Snake as a character throughout the rest of the series. Big Boss was not acrobatic. Liquid was not acrobatic. Solidus? You bet he wasn't. Snake's not either. Or at least, not until Twin Snakes came along.

The cutscenes aren't a matter of ruining a classic, it's a matter of characterization gone wrong which IS an objective argument. Your face can turn blue telling me the cutscenes are fine. And I'll tell you they're entertaining but still don't jive with the rest of the series in terms of accurate portrayal in characters, the overall story, etc.

That said, I still recommend MGS1 for the PS1 on those principles. Feel free to disagree!

[Kenobio]

Yeah, I definitely agree. If you want to point to definitive reasons as to why you believe Twin Snakes is worse (such as the voice acting or the music) that's fine. But I'm really tired of this "you ruined a classic" mentality. Games and movies are remade quite frequently, and NOT ALL OF THEM SUCK.

Twin Snakes is a fantastic game, and in no way ruined the classic Metal Gear Solid. It was simply an updated look on the game, and a very well done one at that. However, it is not a masterpiece. The PS1 Metal Gear Solid was a masterpiece.

[Fenrir]

I still maintain that making him able to take a tank round to the face entitles Konami to do whatever the fuck they want with him.

Besides that, I can only think of three instances when the choreography got out of hand, so I don't see why it's such a big deal.

[Avatar of Justice]

Snake's a goddamn super soldier. He shouldn't be able to get back up after half the shit he gets hit by, and you want to nitpick over some fucking action sequences? Jumping off a missile is just as stupid as being able to get back up after getting slammed by a tank round or razed by Vulcan Raven's machine gun. OR carrying around twelve different guns, or having nanomachines that make it so you don't have to eat.

Who knew someone was going to play the REALISM card in fucking METAL GEAR SOLID game.

I mostly just don't understand why they added them in. The original cutscenes worked. Why not just let them look pretty in 3-D without extra crap going on?

[Gollgagh]

I still maintain that making him able to take a tank round to the face entitles Konami to do whatever the fuck they want with him.

I still think that he dodged it.

He didn't get hit in the original cinema.

[Tables]

I mostly just don't understand why they added them in. The original cutscenes worked. Why not just let them look pretty in 3-D without extra crap going on?

Really.

SPOILER

Did they really have to change it so that Gray Fox threw his friggin sword at Rex's radome? Just shooting it while pinned on the wall with his laser gun was good as it was. But no, Gray Fox wasn't ninja enough in MGS was he? Argh blah.

/SPOILER

That and they took the 'cavern' theme from the beginning, I liked that one. Dirty bastards.

I'm not saying it's all bad though, I do appreciate actually being able to take out the cameras, and I do like the overall graphical improvements. Most of us are just saying that, if Mr. Overflow were given the choice, he should experience the original first, like god intended. Then he can go off and frolic in the remake.

Really, isn't that what you do with remakes, you see the original one first and see what changed with the new one? Isn't as fun the other way around, I say.

[Fenrir]

I still think that he dodged it.

He didn't get hit in the original cinema.

I was talking about in-game stuff. Mostly to point out how silly it is to fret over acrobatic cutscenes when Snake can survive approximately eight buckets of bullets as long as he's got a few rations on hand.

[kamoh]

Here's a bit of a clarification:

Chronologically, the games go as follows;

1964 - Metal Gear Solid 3 (Go with Subsistence version)

1970? - Metal Gear Solid: Portable Ops

1995 - Metal Gear (MSX2)

1999 - Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake (MSX2...although, I'm not sure if this one takes place before or after MGS1)

2005 - Metal Gear Solid (Go with Twin Snakes version)

2007/2009 - Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty

2014 - Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots

And personally, I would go for the PSX version - I never played Twin Snakes because I didn't own a Cube, but I dumped hours onto MGS and it remains the ultimate classic.

There's a reason why the Shadow Moses section of MGS4 has a very Super-Metroidy feel to it...it's the one we all started on, for the most part, a revival of a poetically dead series that got revived in major style.

[Gollgagh]

thank you for spoiling it in the NON-MGS4 THREAD

YOU JERK

[Fenrir]

Way to go, douchebag. Why would you even bring that up?

Do everyone a favor and edit it out of your post, so some people can still enjoy the surprise, please.

[Overflow]

Really, isn't that what you do with remakes, you see the original one first and see what changed with the new one? Isn't as fun the other way around, I say.

That's very true. After all, I can't say I would've been too joyous over pkmn firered except for the fact that I played the crap out of red and yellow, and now, even after I've finished the elite 4, every time I pop in firered it's like a total nostalgia explosion. FF4 DS also looks great in that respect.

[MisterBiggler]

PSX version - Mei Ling's voice actor was changed for Twin Snakes, and the character wasn't as hilarious because of that.

[Global-Trance]

Firstly...

In my opinion, the music for MGS 1 is fairly forgettable no matter which version you're referring to. The now famous Metal Gear Solid theme was not even in that game so far as I know, I believe it first showed up in Virtual Missions in 1999.

Wrong. After you get both endings and play the game in the tuxedo, the Metal Gear Solid theme is played during the credits.

Secondly...

Don't get either, it's a horrible series, and the story kills the awesome gameplay.

Thank you for the worst contribution to anything.

Thirdly...

Spoiler Crap

Dumb. Just dumb.

As for the whole topic on original vs. Twin Snakes thing, it's interesting that in MGS4, some of Twin Snakes audio is used over the original in certain parts when referring to the past... i.e. voice changes. I don't know if it's a nod to the Twin Snakes version or not. In any case... I say play both original and Twin Snakes.

[Dhsu]

The cutscenes aren't a matter of ruining a classic, it's a matter of characterization gone wrong which IS an objective argument. Your face can turn blue telling me the cutscenes are fine. And I'll tell you they're entertaining but still don't jive with the rest of the series in terms of accurate portrayal in characters, the overall story, etc.

Unless Kojima had nothing to do with the remake, I don't see where you get off telling him he messed up with his own characters.

On the subject of the Metal Gear Solid theme, I heard it was removed from MGS4 and the Essential Collection releases because of a certain plagiarism fiasco:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTcNUoxCmHI

I haven't heard anyone mention it though. Can anyone confirm/deny?

[Arrow]

PSX version - Mei Ling's voice actor was changed for Twin Snakes, and the character wasn't as hilarious because of that.

No it didn't; that was still Kim Mai Guest. No explanation as to why she randomly dropped the accent though.

The ONLY voice actor that changed was Gray Fox's.

[Global-Trance]

Unless Kojima had nothing to do with the remake, I don't see where you get off telling him he messed up with his own characters.

On the subject of the Metal Gear Solid theme, I heard it was removed from MGS4 and the Essential Collection releases because of a certain plagiarism fiasco:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTcNUoxCmHI

I haven't heard anyone mention it though. Can anyone confirm/deny?

I HEARD it was mostly coincidental and the whole thing on plagiarism was a practical joke.

Without giving away too much, the theme IS in MGS4 towards the end. I am however unaware if it was removed from the Essential Collection or not.

[Necrotic]

Unless Kojima had nothing to do with the remake, I don't see where you get off telling him he messed up with his own characters.

From what I know, Kojima had very little to do with the project. Nintendo and Konami apparently had to beg him just to get his blessings for a remake, but the development wasn't done by his team at all.

He may or may not have done some production work on it, but he most certainly wasn't directing it. Also, he wasn't the one directing the cutscenes, which is where the main problem lies.

Besides, good characterization can't be argued with "who are you to tell a person what to do!" It's not like an author can create a character, develop that character, give him a set of traits, but then change those traits without any sort of plot development leading up to it. Or if you're a video game designer and decide to retcon up the wazoo, then you're put in the inconvenient place of explaining why the loss of those traits occurs later. Disregarding it doesn't suddenly fix it. Either way that's a huge faux pas in writing and isn't really me arbitrarily "getting off" telling Kojima who or what his character should be.