Modern Pop Music

[Mustin]

I think it's important to note (as Audity did; thanks Audity) the difference between stupidity and ignorance. Over the years, I've introduced a large number of people who just plain didn't know any better to styles of electronic music that they've ended up enjoying quite heavily. On the other hand, consciously making a decision to shut out new things because they're not popular? THAT is true stupidity.

Don't forget the opposite (e.g. a lot of people here) that consciously make the decision to shut out new things that AREN'T popular.

Either way, close minds should come with closed mouths. It's best to take in everything and make decisions for yourself. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen with most people until later in life as most young people struggle to find their place in the status quo.

[ubernym]

Please note that the following statements are in relation to "popular" music, which is defined as modern music, typically with a singer. I'm not including concert music (i.e. classical/chamber/orchestra/etc) or jazz music in my comments, because I think that it would be unfair to compare Britney Spears to Miles Davis, or Nickelback to Kronos Quartet. There is a certain amount of high-mindedness associated with "non-pop" music, and we're not having a conversation about that right now.

The mechanics of listening to music are universal, but the reasons are not. Justifications of individual taste are rarely helpful, because each of us has a unique perspective.

For example, I have a friend who likes a lot of different pop music, but the common thread that ties all of his likes/dislikes together is whether or not the music has a charismatic singer with compelling lyrics.

I also like a lot of different music, and my friend and I have many similar likes. The key difference is that I'm not as interested in lyrics and singers as he is. Sure I appreciate them, but because I'm a musician and because I'm a hobbyist in music production, my reasons for enjoying a song extend beyond good lyrics and into the realm of production values, arrangement, instrumentation, etc. I look at the whole picture, and I can enjoy a well produced, well played song even if the lyrics are shiny and vapid. My friend cannot do the same, however he can enjoy some pretty terrible guitar playing and even worse production values if the singer has something interesting to say.

Is my approach to music enjoyment better or more accurate than my friend's? Not even a little. He has some very good arguments for why lyrics matter so much, and I think I have some good arguments for why arrangement and production matter so much.

It doesn't matter.

The material point is that we're both thinking about why music matters to us, and that we've considered the reasons we enjoy it. Nobody is right, and nobody is wrong. Music is firmly an aesthetic choice, and the factors which play into our personal enjoyment of a song are as individual and unique as our personalities and the histories which formed us.

I am a musician, and can enjoy music in many forms simply for the sake of its musical qualities. My friend is a writer and a poet, and he appreciates music with a literary keen to it. My wife is an actress and a singer, and she enjoys music of the theater above all else. My dad was an aspiring filmmaker when he was a kid and is such a movie buff, and he loves movie soundtracks and any kind of music that paints a cinematic image. My brother-in-law is very athletic and loves to dance, and he tends to enjoy any song with a driving beat. Another friend of mine is a seriously good guitar player and he really loves jam bands and guitar jazz. Most visitors to this site are or were serious video gamers at some point and we enjoy hearing interpretations of musical themes from our favorite video games.

Live and let live, and if you think that some genre of music or the majority of offerings within that genre are irredeemably bad, that's fine. You're entitled to that opinion. If you start judging people who listen to something of which you don't approve, and you start calling those people names just because they don't like the same music as you, or because they have different, maybe even more superficial reasons for liking music than you do... do you really think you're accomplishing something by riding the high horse?

[q-pa]

I'm still waiting for this autotune-fest to end

Yes.

Although I'm afraid it'll be like the boyband craze and once it's over be replaced by something even worse out of the blue (in this case, rap as pop music).

I hate auto-tune because it killed the last of any sense of emotion from the songs. Just listen to 70s R&B (I like Stevie Wonder particularly) and you'll see how big the contrast is. Not all songs have to be raw (anyone who knows me knows I love electronic music), but songs that formerly would have had it now don't.

Kanye's newest work is listenable to me because he still manages to infuse emotion into it. I still wouldn't buy it the way I did The College Dropout and Graduation, but, let's just say I listened to these songs all the way through.

[Kanye]'d be fine if he:

1. Try to sing

Hey, he sang on "Slow Jamz" on The College Dropout and was halfway decent--for a genre parody anyway.

The worst of it? My roommates and I participated in Apollo Night (a talent show based on diversity and minority performance) with Dylan's All Along the Watchtower and we were booed off..

It just occurred to me that you should have RickRoll'd them

At least I would have ROFL'd.

Ice Cube ft. Snoop Dogg - Go to Church

Not anything amazing, just pretty catchy

Make money off crackas

HAHAHA

So true...

[noTuX]

Jamie Fox did most of the singing on Slow Jamz. Kanye was doing that rap/sing thing that was real popular at the time.

Come to think of it, that is what started the whole auto tuning thing anyway.

Rappers that cant sing wanted to sing. Like Snoop Dogg in "Sensual Seduction."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKz-RXSeIYA

[The Vagrance]

Rappers that cant sing wanted to sing. Like Snoop Dogg in "Sensual Seduction."

Man thats a sweet song...

[zircon]

All I'm saying is that you can't listen to DnB (or electro-house for that matter) the same way as any other genre. Its not pretentious and I'm not trying to say, "you just don't understand," although I guess that could be inferred. I'm just saying that you can't listen to DnB the same way as rock music, just as you can't listen to punk music the same way as classical.

And Pendulum's production values are very nice, but the more of them I listen to the more I realize how little depth there is to their music compared to, say, Sub Focus (who could easily be labeled as a Pendulum clone). I mean, Sub Focus is also rather shallow but if listened to quite closely, it is possible to tell that he's left a tiny little bit of character in his sounds as opposed to squashing them to death. Still, both have less traditional production values than a lot of other quality DnB.

I don't mind Pendulum leaving DnB, but the sound they've developed is just bad. They're a bad DnB group and a bad rock group in one. If they were doing music just like they're Pack of Wolves remix, I'd be all over it (that is still a heavy tune), but they're not.

I guess we'll just have to disagree on what "good" even means (not a big surprise.) I just don't like the insinuation that I'm not listening to DNB properly. I know how to listen to electronic music. I've been producing it myself on a pro/commercial level for years.

[The Derrit]

I think the vagrance didn't word it quite right but he's got a bit of a point in there. There's a lot of subtleties to dnb that don't show up unless you're putting some mind power into listening to it; plenty of my friends who have happened upon me listening to dnb just tell me "its the same thing forever" but its not, there's variations and that's what keeps it fresh. imo the fact that the variations are so subtle keeps me interested because you have to listen for it.

[Geoffrey Taucer]

All I'm saying is that you can't listen to DnB (or electro-house for that matter) the same way as any other genre. Its not pretentious and I'm not trying to say, "you just don't understand," although I guess that could be inferred. I'm just saying that you can't listen to DnB the same way as rock music, just as you can't listen to punk music the same way as classical.

Dude, are you seriously telling zircon that he doesn't know how to listen to electronic music?

Think about that for a second.

[OverCoat]

I don't think zircon knows how either

not enough free netlabel electronic music in his diet

[Kenobio]

You guys can't tell me which modern pop music is good or not. I'm Michael Jackson. I know what good pop music is. I've been producing it myself on a pro/commercial level for 30 years.

[Salluz]

I know not to try to dichotomize music, but you know...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-B03-rtob0

... if you want "good", this is not cutting it.

She can't sing nor rap, her voice is unpleasant, and from hearing this whole thing together, it wasn't organized to sound wonderful; it was a mockery created to sound sell-able. You know, I now can appreciate Soulja Boy (lol), 'cuz... this? Uh-uh, not good.

The industry doesn't care; they will do anything, as I have just proven, to brainwash and gyp the teens of America so that they can BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM and a BOOM-RRRT-CHING and TAKE YOUR MONAYYY!

[PrototypeRaptor]

You guys can't tell me which modern pop music is good or not. I'm Michael Jackson. I know what good pop music is. I've been producing it myself on a pro/commercial level for 30 years.

You guys can't tell me which modern pop music is good or not. I'm Johann Sebastian Bach . I know what good pop music is. I've been producing it myself on a pro/commercial level for over 200 years.

And that Kanye West dude definitely doesn't even know that a V7 is not an engine.

[zircon]

Funny, but you misread my posts. I didn't say my experience gives me the right to say what's good or not, at all. In fact I said we'll agree to disagree on that. I just said that I think I know how to listen to electronic music properly (it was insinuated that I didn't) because I've been producing it for years. Obviously if I were unable to listen to it, I would have not been able to find work.

[Salluz]

The difference between the "good" and the "bad" music is this: the bad was created to condition people to have a tolerance for utterly pathetic crap that can be bought. Let's not worry about the psychology of the listeners, let's just TAKE YOUR MONAYYY!

[Shadow Wolf]

I certainly think my musical tastes are eclectic, but I don't think all pop music sucks. I decided a long time ago that if I liked a song, no matter where I heard it, I would try to find the music and download it. That goes for everything from a store intercom to internet radio to a commercial. What music you listen to is about what you prefer, and even that can get modified based on your willingness to try new things.

One time I'm standing in a Taco Bell and I hear "Where'd You Go" from Fort Minor on their overhead. I asked the guy behind the counter who it was, and he told me. I bought Fort Minor's album. It turned out Where'd You Go was a totally unique song on that album compared to the tone and style of everything else, but I ended up loving the whole thing. That was the first thing even close to hip hop/rap I ever listened to, and it opened my mind to trying other rap. I still can't stand MOST rap, but I've found that I enjoy it only when people are being honest and telling their stories, instead of this stupid farce about all the bitches they wanna rape and kill. Rap is about feeling and flow of emotions, and I've found certain songs from Shinoda to Akon to Eminem that I love. Honestly one of the best examples of heartfelt rap I've ever heard is 'Memories Frozen in Time' from this here very site.

Don't get me wrong, there's a lot of generic crappy music out there, especially catering to the Disney/tweenybopper crowd, but I think it's good to be willing to recognize and accept good music wherever you find it, regardless of your biases.

In other news:

BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM and a BOOM-RRRT-CHING and TAKE YOUR MONAYYY!

My brother listens to that song, I have no idea what it is. Not only do I find it amusing, but that is seriously the most creative percussion I've heard in a song in years.

[Salluz]

My brother listens to that song, I have no idea what it is. Not only do I find it amusing, but that is seriously the most creative percussion I've heard in a song in years.

I'll give the beatman some credit, but never to the sing/rap girl nor the industry who signed her. Hey, let's boycott crappy industries!

[Sole Signal]

Fort Minor

Mike Shinoda's stuff is amazing. Several of the Linkin Park instrumentals he did a few years back are fantastic, too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9UI-m-Qd8s

Huge fan of Pendulum, too. I was hooked ever since I heard the interplay of orchestral work and big beats in Slam, and the guitar work in Girl in the Fire. Also gotta love Hybrid's mix of orchestral and breaks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z0CiLbUvi0

[po!]

There's a lot of subtleties to dnb that don't show up unless you're putting some mind power into listening to it

there's a lot of subtleties to every kind of music, it's not just DnB.

and what's wrong with not putting mind power into listening to music? i've always thought there were 2 sides to listening to music... listening with your heart and listening with your brain. i feel like listening with your heart, just feeling the music, is the most basic and primitive response to music and is always a part of the musical experience. listening with your brain may or may not come into play much, depending on how you listen to music. but i think it's not a requirement of listening to music the "correct" way.. only engaging the heart is

[q-pa]

... if you want "good", this is not cutting it.

She can't sing nor rap, her voice is unpleasant, and from hearing this whole thing together, it wasn't organized to sound wonderful; it was a mockery created to sound sell-able. You know, I now can appreciate Soulja Boy (lol), 'cuz... this? Uh-uh, not good.

The industry doesn't care; they will do anything, as I have just proven, to brainwash and gyp the teens of America

I liked MIA's first album (2005's Arular) a lot. Electro-meets-dancehall style and creative all around IMO.

Her current one has a few good tracks ("Bamboo Banga" and "Jimmy" are my favorites), but it has more filler that didn't move me and I don't like "Paper Planes" much at all. Gives people the wrong idea about her... Add I will agree with you that the emphasis on her voice in that track is annoying.

[Shadow Wolf]

Stuff about Fort Minor.

Kenji was an amazing song. That's what I'm talking about when I say 'real' rap. Shinoda literally said somewhere in the song that he had a dream that he had to make this song, and he did. We got the privilege of hearing about a unique and amazing part of his family's history, instead of another rapper telling us how he's gonna take over Compton via martial force and screw everything that moves.

[q-pa]

Well, Grammy nominations are out and guess who's on top.

Lil' Wayne--whom I still don't understand why he's so great; decent maybe but not classic--has 8 nods, including Album of the Year.

He's competing with, among others, Jay-Z's "American Gangster" (which wasn't bad IMO, thouhg I still prefer this) and Lupe Fiasco's "The Cool," for Rap Album.

Coldplay has 7 nominations; make of that what you will.

Oh, and "Paper Planes" was nominated for Record of the Year...

[SLyGeN]

The original poster should have known this would degrade into a "post your favorite music" thread, complemented with "flame others' musical preference".

I've noticed that the vast majority of young listeners listen to music for the words, and not for the music itself. "Hate black metal because it just sounds like graah." "Can't listen to anything that isn't in English." "Classical music doesn't "speak" to me; it's boring."

I tell them to go to a damn poetry reading, and they can get out of my car if they don't like what's being played.

Back on topic, good music is only in Aeolian, Harmonic Minor, Phrygian, or Locrian. Major key tonality is only allowed in phrygian or harmonic minor context. Diminished 5ths/Augmented 4ths are a requirement; brownie points if you also use a minor 9th.

[Cyril the Wolf]

Back on topic, good music is only in Aeolian, Harmonic Minor, Phrygian, or Locrian. Major key tonality is only allowed in phrygian or harmonic minor context. Diminished 5ths/Augmented 4ths are a requirement; brownie points if you also use a minor 9th.

Back up your claimz plz.

Now that is rather general.

Ionian songs are just as good as Aeolian songs (though I must confess I do prefer the latter) it really all depends on if the music is well thought out, not what mode its in.

Diminished fifths? You need the tritone to have a good piece of music? Are you being ridiculous or is this just your preference?

[SLyGeN]

That whole paragraph was sarcasm out the ass. It's just a list of my preferred sounds.

I hate Ionian, Dorian, Lydian, and Mixo. Especially when a good Aeolian piece ends on an Ionian note. Makes my blood run cold and boil.

[The Vagrance]

The industry doesn't care; they will do anything, as I have just proven, to brainwash and gyp the teens of America so that they can BOOM-BOOM-BOOM-BOOM and a BOOM-RRRT-CHING and TAKE YOUR MONAYYY!

She's actually fairly intelligent (albiet, a diva) and the song has a legitimate message behind it, which is that our nation (and others, surely) have the idea that immigrants (such as her) bring harm and malice to society. The chorus is sarcastic in nature.