OCR01844 - Chrono Trigger "JESUS CHRIST IT'S A DINOSAUR GET IN THE EPOCH"

[Sinewav]

You do NOT have a right to not be offended.

You do NOT have a right to impose your beliefs on everyone else as a standard of living.

You DO have the right not to come here.

You DO have the right not to participate.

You DO have a right to complain.

We DO have a right to dismiss you for it.

Neko summed it up best. I am very christian myself, but I did not take offense at the title. I don't expect people to operate within the christian ethic if they aren't christians. Also, the title parodies my favorite lolcat pic evar, so that helped too.

As for the song, I've been waiting to see someone try to do this source for a long time, and I'm glad it was Doug who finally did. It's even better than I could have imagined. Mad props to the judges for letting something so different than usual make it to the main page.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Sinewav

[prophetik music]

But on the other hand, I would not in any way see it right to FORCE a remixer to change it.

i'm a christian, went to a christian college, grew up in a christian home, go to church, all that stuff. i cuss occasionally (as people on the pokemon project know). all that said, i agree with everything this dude said. he should post more.

in regards to the mix:

love the beat, love the variety in instrumentation you've used here. i think it's awesome! i saved it (with a slightly altered name) and will continue to listen to it as a landmark in our musical community. i just wish that this landmark had been done with a bit more 'oomph'. to a point, i agree with escariot. i'm not as hard-line as he was, but i really think that more could have been done, particularly since what's here is what someone like me (who slathers on ethnic percussion like jam on biscuits) would use as the backing track for a song, nothing more. hell, i HAVE been using percussion tracks like this for songs on the game i'm scoring currently. i realize that everything here was performed live, but with some slight alterations it'd be possible to do it all using various loops from different sets. i'm not into that as much.

there's been several mixes in the past that have taken extremely minimalist source tunes (my track for link's awakening comes to mind, source is just an arpeggio, nothing else) and added melodic material that was wholly derived from the arranger's mind rather than the composer's original music. i LOVE this idea! expanding on the original composer's intentions is the point of remixing. all that said, this is still a great piece by OCR standards of percussion performance. it ain't landmark in the world of percussion ensemble rep, obviously, as referenced by the significant lack of time changes, timbral exploration, and pitched instrumentation, but it's still a really awesome piece that's fun to listen to and is a good 'war music' kind of piece.

doug i love you

...you know that right

edit: before someone repudiates my post, listen to a few days worth of percussion ensemble music. then attempt to coach your response in words that make sense for this discussion (aka, arguing that the usage of a variety of afro-cuban hand percussion counts as timbral exploration, which i don't think it does). been performing in a group for years, and i feel that i know what the standard is for this stuff. you probably don't (unless your name is doug or you perform this rep regularly). so don't go saying OMG AWESUM U SUK before you actually know what you're saying. and no, listening to metal or something doesn't classify as knowing anything about classical percussion ensemble repertoire.

Edited May 20, 2009 by prophetik music

[Harmony]

Dude, haha! Doug, this is great work! I must admit that it's taken me a little while to catch some of the themes, but once I did, I really enjoyed the arrangement.

Two comments, one original, one borrowed:

1) There's a left panned bass drum after about the one-minute mark that feels out of place to me. I know there are no hard and fast rules about anything in music, but I would think that it is generally a good idea to keep the stuff with predominantly low frequencies in the center field. I could see a brief use of the bass panned left or right in some sort of a cinematic cue - it could really make the sonic field feel more dynamic to go along with the on-screen action. But in a audio only music-for-music's sake kind of thing, the constant hard panning is distracting imo. I wonder what the formally trained musicians think about this.

2) Had I not read Escariot's comment, I probably wouldn't have thought of this, but I agree that some chromatic percussion could have "kicked this up a notch." I wouldn't be looking for it in a lead melodic role, but as a supporting instrument I think it may have added some tone to the already rich texture.

As said, nice work. DrumUltimA indeed

[Catharsis]

Any attempt to censor somebody else's actions on their own turf based on what would be offensive on your turf is, by definiton, intolerant.

I completely understand that, however, that wasn't all that he said. He made an absolute claim that was beyond OCR's "turf" when he said:

I believe that when any religion - Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, you name it - demands that everyone else behave and conform to its own set of expectations and beliefs, that's a form of intolerance.

If he is representative of OCR, then OCR is reaching beyond its own turf and making universal claims. This is what I was addressing.

However, if you are saying that is the official, iron-clad position of OCR, then OK -- no point in talking about it here.

You do NOT have a right to impose your beliefs on everyone else as a standard of living.

Why is the first reaction of so many people to say this? Who was imposing anything? In fact, OCR is imposing rules on music submissions, but everyone seems OK with that. Are you going to say this to them?

Also, where are you getting all these "rights" from anyway? Where are they written down? I've never read them anywhere.

Oh, nevermind. I don't have the energy to continue all of this.

Edited May 20, 2009 by Liontamer
double post merge

[big giant circles]

Good then, there's a place for all types of discussion. This place is designated to be for reviews and comments pertaining specifically to the mix.

Doug, again, I really enjoyed this track. It's refreshingly unique. I'm not saying I'd rock out to this song for hours or anything, but this with the Zelda Heineken are two of the most stand-out and innovative tracks OCR has seen in a while, and despite whatever anyone may say about their own musical preference or tastes, I don't believe anyone can legitimately argue that they are not.

[yoshi1001]

Actually, the first thing I thought of when I saw the title was, "Is this an OCRemix or a Fall Out Boy Song?" I'm glad to hear it won't become "OC Remix Made Us Change The Name of This Song So We Wouldn't Get Flamed".

Pretty cool. There probably aren't very many source materials like this in video games, so this is a rare treat indeed.

Edited May 21, 2009 by yoshi1001

[Alexis]

Are you guys done arguing about Jesus Christ? Is it safe to comment now? I didn't think this was PPR...

Anyways, I'm so happy to hear a percussion remix up on the site. A couple of my friends from college are percussion majors and they both really got me into percussion ensemble stuff. It's so refreshing to see something like this pop up on the site. It's different, and you did a great job with it.

Plus the title is damn funny. I'm Christian, and I have no problem with that. Come on people. Get the stick out of your asses.

(Yes, go ahead and tell me I'm going to hell. I was a Greek Orthodox Christian at a Catholic university. According to the nuns there, I'm gonna burn in hell anyways for not being Catholic.)

[a_d]

DrumUltimA is def one of my favs. About using Jesus' name (I'm a Christian), this isn't a Christian site, don't expect it to act like it. You're gonna have to risk running into stuff like this if you're gonna hang around here

[Salluz]

Offense to the fact that "Jesus Christ" was in the title of the song? OK. I mean, it's better than the F-Bomb. C'mon, it's not like we're "using his name in vain" or "forcing beliefs". Besides, what would you say if a dinosaur did show up and you had a working time machine?

...

"JESUS CHRIST IT'S A DINOSAUR GET IN THE EPOCH!"

Lemme hear the song again. Edit: heaven... Edit 2: the people who said that notes would take away from this mix were right; more stuff = less emphasis on drums. Drums can be very suffiecient by themselves when done right. Unfortunately, as of now, hip hop doesn't make a good example of this theory.

Edited May 21, 2009 by Salluza

[prophetik music]

...it's not like we're "using his name in vain"...

not to derail again, but that's exactly what people's issue is. using Jesus's name as an expletive.

[ZealPath]

This is one of those songs I had always had in the back of my mind, wondering if anyone would try to do a mix of it. Well someone did, and it is awesome! Personally, I've always remembered the source very well, despite the fact that it is only some primitive sounding drums, and have always considered it just as much a song as the rest of the OST, so I'm very glad (most) people were able to get over that aspect of it.

The mix to me sounds a little like what I think it would have sounded like were the game made today and they were going for a similar feel. It's similar, just with many more layers and variation, very cool, and low key enough that I can listen to it several times a day and not get bored of it, awesome stuff!

Personally I found the title hilarious, though I can see the arguments from both sides, it doesn't strike me as intended to offend at all though and would be best forgotten about if it truly does offend you.

[Nobbynob Littlun]

Songs like this are what OCRemix is all about.

[Vosur]

I'm normally an individual who likes to remain invisible by just downloading the music I enjoy, but this one has quite a bit of curiosity stirred inside of me. I normally stick to music by Rize and Sixto Sounds, but this one is definitely a percussive romp through the Prehistoric Ages.

Now, as for the details on the name... it just doesn't seem to match the "mood" given off by the music in my opinion. That would lead me to think that this one would be faster, more "drive" in it (hence the title to "get in the Epoch"), but otherwise no complaints. Sounds like something I could cut a rug on (or a saber-tooth tigerskin on the floor?). Which reminds me... I need to make Crono and crew dance in the Millenial Fair's prehistoric section.

[metalsnakejuice]

Slick sounds man, l love it.

[phillbato]

It has a decent beat. That said, I would hope that Doug would be a little more thoughtful in titling future submissions. I realize that not everybody in this world or on this site is a Christian and I can respect that. However, it seems to me that using Christ's name in this context had little purpose other than to inflame Christian visitors / users. Yes he has a legal right to title his piece whatever he likes, and I'm not saying that he should try to please everybody, but at the same time, don't go out of your way to piss people off. Furthermore I'm not asking that he or anyone else on this site believe as I do (not saying that he doesn't, but that's the impression I get from the way he used Christ's name in the title); I am simply asking that if you don't, that you be respectful of people such as myself and who / what we believe.

[KyleJCrb]

Someone is obviously not familiar with the meme. It's a referential joke, man. I doubt DU was deliberately intending to "inflame" Christians.

Edited May 31, 2009 by KyleJCrb

[CuNaMo]

To KyleJCRB:

Your point and link are both irrelevant to what Philibato is saying. There are two reasons why:

1- The joke that you gave a link to can be insulting to Christians in itself, because it uses Christ's name inappropriately as well. So if DrumUltima is referring to a joke that is insulting to Christians it is no different than if he was telling the joke in the first place. A better example is if someone told a racist joke that they heard from someone else. Just because the teller of the joke didn't invent it, doesn't make it any less racist. So DrumUltima is still guilty of religious intolerance.

2- Even if the joke wasn't insulting to Christians DrumUltima should either understand that not everyone is in on his reference, or he should provide a link as you did to clear up confusion.

I am a Christian and I am not angry or anything because I know that neither you nor DrumUltima are purposefully trying to insult me or my beliefs, but you still need to understand that there are many people who make jokes like this with that intent, and to Christians these jokes are as insulting or insensitive as racist jokes are to non-white races. So please just be polite, that is all Philibato was saying.

[prophetik music]

read the thread, man/woman.

[Bahamut]

I hate to hijack a review thread, especially for a preachy post, but some people seem to be missing the point even after reading posts responding to their complaints.

OCR isn't a site based on religion or anything like that. It is a site purely based on artistic expression to honor video game music. You're surely going to get people who use words differently than others may in a free-to-express place like this.

In this particular situation, you have complaints about the usage of 'Jesus Christ', that it isn't deferential. Not everyone is a Christian though - what do you do if one artist doesn't share your views here? People say 'Jesus Christ' all the time in colloquial usage as an expression of frustration/exasperation/etc., just like 'goddamn' - do you choose to rebuke every person each of those times?

In addition, Christians are supposed to be examples of their faith. Wouldn't it be considered petty if when faced with a non-Christian, and you choose to rebuke him/her for complaining about the usage of 'Jesus Christ'? I can't say doing so would constitute as effective evangelism, nor does it look good because you're complaining about something so minor in comparison with many other things such as someone following bad advice (i.e. they're angry at someone over something, but under someone else's advice chooses to avoid talking about it with that person and hold it against them).

Lastly, I know that Doug did not use this to offend. I'm a Christian and I find it hard to even be offended by his usage. It's not like the mix title is something like "Jesus Christ Did Not Exist". Even then, I would think the wise course would be to temper anger and foster discussion on the existence, not point fingers and say "You're wrong," or "This is offensive". Such direct phrases seldom get you anywhere, and here is no different.

[Monobrow]

Doug, way to be an asshole... You should have titled this song as:

Jesus Christ! It's a Leviathan get in Noah's Ark!

[phillbato]

Not to keep beating a dead horse, but all I requested by my post was that people be a little more thoughtful in the titling of their submissions. Yeah, I'll survive. Yeah, I've heard about a billion people use Christ's name irreverently. True, not everybody is a Christian. Not everybody is of African descent either, yet that doesn't mean it's ok to use the "n" word recklessly, or at all for that matter. Likewise, using Christ's name in such a manner is inappropriate, although I suppose it is your right to do so if that is what you choose. I suggested being considerate in titling future submissions, not trying to force him to change the title; it just needed to be stated that no, this isn't cool with me, and a number of people that share my viewpoint. No, this isn't a Christian site, but to my knowledge it isn't anti-Christian either; there are a plurality of views held by folks both who use and contribute to this site, and it would seem like a good thing to be respectful of that.

[Nekofrog]

Oh look, equating jesus with nigger.

good going

[Kizyr]

Oh look, equating jesus with nigger.

good going

On that note, I enjoyed Doug's remix about as much as this one. Though for entirely different reasons.

Anyway, awesome mix. First there's the fact that it takes a lot of skill to pull off an all-percussion remix that still has recognizable elements of the source tune. It wins on originality alone (at least in terms of what's made it through the judging process here). The fact that it's still really damn good is a bonus, though, and shouldn't be understated. KF

[Tensei]

Why, hello there, Christian standards, what are you doing here? Oh I see, trying to get imposed on a secular website?

Edited June 4, 2009 by Tensei

[phillbato]

Yes, because a request for a little courtesy is the same as imposing religious values on people (sarcasm). Come up with a response that's a little less cliche and makes sense given the context, will you.