Sportsmanship in video games

[Ninja-san]

Does it even exist anymore or it was never there to begin with?

[K.B.]

Not in the pros, but the NCAA Football series still has it.

[Brushfire]

Good one.

But no, internet anonymity killed sportsmanship.

[big giant circles]

Good one.

But no, internet anonymity killed sportsmanship.

For the most part, yeah, this.

Griefing would probably not exist if people knew who was doing it. Or at least, there would be far less of it.

[1337 1]

Good one.

But no, internet anonymity killed sportsmanship.

OBJECTION!

You assume that all gaming is done online; there's plenty of games where local multiplayer (or arguably even single player, though to a lesser extent) is a part of video games still. Indeed, when you can see your foe face to face, sportsmanship is much more dominant (however this is probably from a smaller sample size as well; there is a greater emphasis on online play these days).

Even so, the internet never really "killed" anything with video games. Like any media, the nature has simply changed, not died off completely. There is plenty of sportsmanship in online gaming. Unless you play CSS. So. Much. Rage.

[Halt]

Not in the pros, but the NCAA Football series still has it.

Madden, has sportsmanship. I love madden. <333

[Ninja-san]

Probably. I just don't get how ppl can be ok with it tho. For me it just shows lack of skill. I don't care if I get my butt kicked but not by someone just camping in a corner of a map. Just takes all the fun out of a good match :/

[Poke'G]

It's been a grand long time since I went on Battle.net, but I remember most players being a good sport, especially since Blizzard runs a pretty tight ship.

But like I said, that was long ago, pre WoW. Anyone still use Battle.net for any games, and how's the player base there?

I think part of the issue is also age of the players. I had friends comparing Left4Dead on Steam and XBox, and how they couldn't stand the XBox players. They noticed encountering generally older players on the PC, while kids tend to play the console version. They blamed that as a main reason for the difference in behavior.

[Halt]

It's been a grand long time since I went on Battle.net' date=' but I remember most players being a good sport, especially since Blizzard runs a pretty tight ship.

But like I said, that was long ago, pre WoW. Anyone still use Battle.net for any games, and how's the player base there?

I think part of the issue is also age of the players. I had friends comparing Left4Dead on Steam and XBox, and how they couldn't stand the XBox players. They noticed encountering generally older players on the PC, while kids tend to play the console version. They blamed that as a main reason for the difference in behavior.[/quote']

Well, i can see this being logical since alot of PC gamers build their PCs, as i did too. With a pre-built on XBox kids just plug and play. not as quick and easy on pc, but yeah I agree.

[linkspast]

Iv noticed that most people in L4D2 are either mostly polite. Or just don't say anything at all.

[Halt]

Probably. I just don't get how ppl can be ok with it tho. For me it just shows lack of skill. I don't care if I get my butt kicked but not by someone just camping in a corner of a map. Just takes all the fun out of a good match :/

You know what I do, when that happens on CoD, which is where i see that happening the most, is simply just show them up, its not hard to position your self with a cooked grenade, or a rifle and pick them off, and then just tell your team mates. Camping is fixable.

[Ninja-san]

You know what I do, when that happens on CoD, which is where i see that happening the most, is simply just show them up, its not hard to position your self with a cooked grenade, or a rifle and pick them off, and then just tell your team mates. Camping is fixable.

That's if your teammates are the teamwork type. The camping in CodMw2 is why I'm starting to go back into World at War.

[Gollgagh]

or make a witch build

[JackKieser]

Hey, this is something I know about personally. See, I spend a lot of time playing Smash Bros. competitively (and hosting tournaments)... and that whole community is built on the assumption that not only are people probably going to be dicks, but that if you don't play as a dick on purpose, you are failing as a gamer.

The entire fighting game section of competitive games shares this philosophy. They learned it (in part) from a man named David Sirlin. Go ahead and Google him; find his work and read it, and I guarantee you'll want to gag at how self-serving it is. If pro sports IRL worked the way these people view competitive gaming, we'd be looking at a very different world (of sports).

See, they call it "playing to win". If you don't do everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) at your disposal to win, you aren't really trying your best to win and are disgracing yourself and the competitive community at large by being a "scrub". They actually ascribe to being a dick in games as though it's something to aspire to.

I wish I were making this up.

For instance, there is a controversy in Brawl over infinite chain grabs, grabs that combo into themselves infinitely and basically lead to grab -> death. These chain grabs literally make 7 entire characters unplayable in tournaments. If the Ice Climbers pull it off, it's an infinite on the ENTIRE CAST. Worst of all, they're really not that hard to do. Sure, I'm simplifying a bit, but the only reason people aren't just maining IC's, DDD, and Falco all day is because Meta Knight is so stupidly good (and easy to play). Let me re-iterate: 7 ENTIRE CHARACTERS cannot be played AT ALL in a tournament because it's a 100% guaranteed loss to do so.

This is perfectly acceptable to competitive fighting game players. Hell, MvC2 is pretty much built off of only using teams that infinite. They don't care that they are basically degrading the game; if it wins, it wins. Pick a new main. Forget the fact that you literally cannot do ANYTHING accept unplug the opponent's controller / punch the opponent in the face once it starts. It's in the game's coding, so it's legal.

[The Derrit]

and that whole community is built on the assumption that not only are people probably going to be dicks, but that if you don't play as a dick on purpose, you are failing as a gamer

I personally find this silly.

This is the same confusing concept I come across when people talk about the Patriots in the NFL. Everyone thinks they're dicks because they fake field goals and go for it on 4th down, because its against these silly conventions they've made in their head on how things "should" be done. In fact, they're doing what gives them the best chance to WIN. It's COMPETITIVE. If they lose a game because they don't do something like that because its "too cheap," then they would be fools.

So why does this not apply in gaming?

I also play Smash competitively (Melee, the better one) and if I play against a Sheik, I expect them to chaingrab me. Why would they not? I know they can, they know they can, and its a good idea. Given that I know he can chaingrab me, part of the game becomes (get this) NOT LETTING HIM. If you know that one part of his game is dangerous, then avoid it. It's all part of the strengths and weaknesses game you play when you play anything competitively. To go back to the football example, if you know the other team has good run defense, then don't run as much. Its not cheap for them to be so good at defending the run, just take the fact into account and work around it.

If I were chaingrabbing someone and they were like "this is so unfair" I would laugh. Because they have the opportunity to counterpick a character that could do the same to me, and if they choose not to, its not my problem.

And while tons of people will disagree, that's not dick in the least. That's called being competitive.

Now I wouldn't chaingrab or infiniteshine a friend who's just playing around with me for fun, because that's dick. But in a competitive setting, kids who can't take the heat can get off the playground. Simple as that. Learn it love it or leave it.

Good sportsmanship comes into play after a match is over, not during. There is no way to break the rules of the game because the rules are programmed in. The only way sportsmanship becomes an issue is outside the game, in the form of trash talking or not accepting a "good game" after a set.

edit: i can see why you'd get pissed about things like this, because brawl is a frustratingly imbalanced game, and becomes frustrating because a player who's put tons of time into a poor character, lets just say falcon, can still lose to someone who's been playing for a month or two with metaknight and just learned how to press b at the right time. but that's what comes with competitive brawl. no disrespect i like brawl too but could never play it competitively because of things like that

[Poke'G]

For instance, there is a controversy in Brawl over infinite chain grabs, grabs that combo into themselves infinitely and basically lead to grab -> death. These chain grabs literally make 7 entire characters unplayable in tournaments. If the Ice Climbers pull it off, it's an infinite on the ENTIRE CAST. Worst of all, they're really not that hard to do. Sure, I'm simplifying a bit, but the only reason people aren't just maining IC's, DDD, and Falco all day is because Meta Knight is so stupidly good (and easy to play). Let me re-iterate: 7 ENTIRE CHARACTERS cannot be played AT ALL in a tournament because it's a 100% guaranteed loss to do so.

There's an easy fix to that problem, and it's playing matches with four opponents like the game was designed to be.

I really, really hate the competitive Smash Bros. players. I can't think of any player demographic that has warped and sucked the fun out of a game more.

[lazygecko]

Battle.net has poor sportsmanship because it is so ridiculously easy to just create a new account in Starcraft. Since people only care about their win-loss ratio, they'll keep preying on "n00bs only" games and if they get as much as a single loss on their record, they'll abandon their account for another.

Dedicated server communities generally do a good job of discouraging asshattery.

[Bahamut]

It's been a grand long time since I went on Battle.net' date=' but I remember most players being a good sport, especially since Blizzard runs a pretty tight ship.

But like I said, that was long ago, pre WoW. Anyone still use Battle.net for any games, and how's the player base there?

I think part of the issue is also age of the players. I had friends comparing Left4Dead on Steam and XBox, and how they couldn't stand the XBox players. They noticed encountering generally older players on the PC, while kids tend to play the console version. They blamed that as a main reason for the difference in behavior.[/quote']

Battle.net and good sport what? That is almost an oxymoron! Attitudes are piss poor amongst much of the population, and elitism runs rampant.

[Tensei]

Heroes of Newerth's pub community generally has a very shitty attitude. In general, if someone is being arrogant and a douche, no matter what team they're on, I will start mocking them if they ever make a mistake.

It happens very rarely that I'm actually up against people that are both skilled at the game and have a good attitude, but these tend to be the best matches, and I'll actually compliment players on the enemy team after they make a particularly skillful kill or escape. Not to mention I'll have a way better attitude about losing a match against this type of player, and will usually genuinely type "GG, well played" at the end.

[Native Jovian]

The entire fighting game section of competitive games shares this philosophy. They learned it (in part) from a man named David Sirlin. Go ahead and Google him; find his work and read it, and I guarantee you'll want to gag at how self-serving it is.

Oh, good. I'm glad I'm not the only person who hates this guy.

[Malaki-LEGEND.sys]

In terms of fighters, it's all about what fans of the genre are accustomed to. When Valve sees that people are using exploits in their games that they never intended/imagined, and are thus making the game unfair or unbalanced, they patch it.

Fighting games don't have this tradition. Instead, they just wait for the next game release. How many things are going to be glitchy in Super Street Fighter IV that are going to be addressed in a 300kb patch as opposed to another full game release? What about Brawl? I'm sure as hell they didn't intend for there to be infinite chain grabs either. That kind of shit is like watching a floating jockey in L4D2. It's broken code and needs to be fixed.

[JCvgluvr]

What about Brawl? I'm sure as hell they didn't intend for there to be infinite chain grabs either.

Don't be so sure. Just look at Wave Dashing in Melee. The developers openly admitted to knowing about it before Melee was ever released, and left it as-is on purpose. They claimed it was just another facet of the game. It's no stretch of the imagination to claim that they viewed chain grabs in Brawl in the same way. Not to mention, the Brawl team thought tripping was a good idea, remember? Ick.

OT: Gaming sportsmanship is alive only in local multiplayer matches. That's a sad fact of life.

[JackKieser]

Technically, Sakurai knew about it, but didn't think anything would come from it, which was why he left it in; his argument was that he'd rather spend the time / effort / money making the rest of Melee awesome than remove an unintended facet of the physics engine that "probably wouldn't" acutally effect the game any. I'm sure if he realized what we did with WD'ing would happen, he'd have fixed it. He respects competitive players, but he respects casuals more, which is evident in all of the anti-competitive stuff he put in Brawl on purpose (like tripping).

Besides, there isn't even sportsmanship in local matches. Maybe among the highest eschalon, maybe. Again, at the Brawl tournaments I'VE hosted, top players are assholes to newbies or unskilled players just starting out or trying to learn. I can't even count how many people I've personally heard say "I'm never playing this game again" thanks to pros treating them like shit in game, between all the trash talk and DDD D-throwing them against a wall or something. And Metaknight.

[PriZm]

People who call others "scrubs" should be drop-kicked in the neck.

I play a lot of Soul Calibur 4, and I think it is terrible what Sirlin's article has done to the gaming world. In fighting forums, you see the word "scrub" almost as often as you see "fail" and "epic fail". It's very irritating.

Sure, there might be a counter to every move, but this article fails to mention the skill level required to pull them off. What I consider cheap and unsportsmanlike is when you can pull a very easy move for which the counter is very hard to pull off, and you spam it like a motherfucker.

[Geeky Stoner]

yeah that is definitely turned me off in fighting games online recently.

I don't mind if someone is cheap or way better at the game than me but they don't have to be a "dick" about it.

Me and this friend of mine, we used to play Soul Calibur 4 quite a bit and in all honesty he was better than on a lot of levels,I might eek out a win every once in a while, but for the most part he beat me, did I ever get upset.. no.

We both just enjoyed the fun of the game, we never got all egotistical he knew he was better than me but he never rubbed my face in it.

I feel that most people online play that way too.

but when it comes to people with that "pro" mentality they are just a bunch of fucking assholes.

you can play to win sure, its competitive, its that very nature of the game.

but some people let that go to their heads and they become dicks.