OCR02071 - Final Fantasy IV "Everclear Hangover IV"

[Radiowar]

it always bums me out to hear a rap remix on here where the whole thing is basically hey look we're rapping isn't that funny

hip hop is pretty good you guys it's okay to take it seriously

but w/e that was alright i guess, sounds like you guys had fun

[Palpable]

I stand by marking this as direct post. Technically djpretzel is the one that direct posts anything, it's always his call whether a mix goes up or not in the end. He's just calling me out because he wanted some comments to pull. I'm pretty confident that this would have passed the panel had it gone that route because of the strength of the production and arrangement. Performances are... loose, but it fits the vibe of the song.

[luhny]

Hm, to me it sounds like a joke. Or something silly you put together solely for fun.

People who like jokes of this kind will definately enjoy. And those who don't will not enjoy.

I am of the latter part.

Then again, music is a subjective medium - to each their own. And as long you enjoy what you do: keep doing it.

[djpretzel]

I stand by marking this as direct post. Technically djpretzel is the one that direct posts anything, it's always his call whether a mix goes up or not in the end. He's just calling me out because he wanted some comments to pull. I'm pretty confident that this would have passed the panel had it gone that route because of the strength of the production and arrangement. Performances are... loose, but it fits the vibe of the song.

I actually, legitimately think it would have been preferable for it to go through the panel, just so the haters had some additional perspectives on why it made it through when other more "serious" mixes are rejected, etc., and also because it sets a new precedent in terms of obscene material. By the same token, I didn't find direct-posting it hugely problematic, either, as it was bound to be polarizing regardless.

Also, http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01424/ - more by The Crakaz, with smarter lyrics.

[OceansAndrew]

The Crackaz and the Scuba Divers should freestyle battle!

[Flik]

I completely forgot this even existed. And OA, you wanna battle? Next time I'm in town the Scuba Diver's are goin' DOWN!

[PurpleXVI]

I have to say... I've been listening to OCRemixes for years and this is just the worst one I have ever heard.

Technically I guess the music isn't so bad but... the lyrics just drown everything out. I like hip hop, I like rap... but it's like someone made a relatively okay piece of music and then copy-pasted bad gangsta rap lyrics on top, and no one remembered to remove them before they recorded it.

At least the other lyrical pieces on the site tend to try and make it somewhat related to the game.

It's not that it's "vulgar and offensive." It's just that it's bad by any measure.

[Rozovian]

Haven't listened yet, so this isn't a review of the music. That might come later. But I have enjoyed reading comments both here and on youtube, and got some idea of the track from that and from reading the lyrics. There's some clever wording but much of the song is pretty distasteful. Brings to mind a comment in the judges' panel that BGC once made (albeit not about lyrics), and makes me wonder if there should be a set standard for lyrics. I mean, these lyrics might be fun if you're into this kind of lyrical content, but maybe BGC's suggestion would be fun too.

In case you don't remember/read the Decisions:

If I write a really stellar track, but record a 19 second series of flatulence in the middle, is that passable?

So yeah, not much of a review here. Maybe later.

[Brandon Strader]

I think flatulence should fall under the same musical category as Vuvuzela, if done tastefully. Flatulence is an effective instrument of percussion.

[BlackPanther]

Uhm let me bring this out

"ocremix.org is dedicated to the appreciation and promotion of video game music as an art form"

This is exactly what this remix is, albeit bad art but it's art regardless. I'm listenin to the song as I type it. Love the production aspect, but these lyrics? Lol man sometimes it's good, sometimes it's not. This might be some inside joke thing that you guys decided to do, but I don't really think inside jokes work in music especially if the rest of the world doesn't understand lol.

Anyways I respect djp postin this on ocr direct post or not, it shows he doesn't discriminate and the writeup doesn't seem forced at all like some people were saying, just him bein more open-minded unlike half of you guys. It's whatever, haters are gonna hate I suppose, sad world we live in.

Uhm good job guys, I didn't fully appreciate the song but there were some elements that I liked about it. It's a nice little fun track for like a house party or somethin lolz.

[The Xyco]

"OCR IS SERIOUS BUSINESS. HOW COULD THIS BE POSTED. MY EARS HAVE BEEN BRUTALIZED. CAPS LOCK. BLAHBLAHBLAH. WHAMBLEWHAMBLE, QQ, LYNCH DJP ET CETERA."

God, lighten up already. This mix isn't brilliance, and I'm certain no one would try to defend as such. But it is hella catchy and rather funny in its self-aware lameness. These are the types of mixes that keep me coming back to OCR.

Also, anyone actually offended by these lyrics hasn't been on the internet longer than a week.

[OC_Temp]

It would be tolerable if it were actual Hip-Hop, but the vocals in this track sound more like:

but without being funny to compensate.

[SoulinEther]

Omg, lol. Juvenile is right, so I guess that means I'm slightly juvenile.

It's not something I'll listen to regularly, but I didn't think it was as bad as people are making it out to be. I found the rapping style to be just fine.

[Palpable]

I actually, legitimately think it would have been preferable for it to go through the panel, just so the haters had some additional perspectives on why it made it through when other more "serious" mixes are rejected, etc., and also because it sets a new precedent in terms of obscene material.

That's fair, and I can try to lay out my thoughts for the haters. This part of your write-up pretty much sums it up for me: "I think it'd be perfectly fair to call this mix juvenile, but then again, that label isn't mutually exclusive with solid arrangement & production." In terms of meeting this site's criteria, the lyrics are only an issue if they don't serve the song. Laziness is the only criticism that to me makes sense to level at this song, but given some of the clever rhymes and vocal delivery of the verses, I didn't feel it was very lazy. Performance wasn't superb, but definitely fit the song, and it was above the bar. Production and source usage were on par with other posted tracks.

I can understand if people don't like the song because of the vulgarity, but that shouldn't be a criteria for us rejecting this, just as we shouldn't be rejecting a song because we don't like its genre. It's not like this is too out there, anyhow - you get the same lyrical content in every third Ludacris song.

Maybe the direct post aspect is throwing people off? Direct posts aren't necessarily reserved for the highest quality songs we have; rather, they are used when a song clearly meets all site criteria, like this song did.

[Skyline Drop]

Wow.

So this was definitely not what I had expected to hit the front page in this day and age. And by direct post nonetheless. Yikes.

Not really bad, per se. I could see why a lot of people wouldn't like it. It's pretty crass - although intentionally so for the sake of humor. Not my specific brand of humor, but I'm not gonna knock it for that.

The actual rapping was pretty sub-par, but again, I feel like that added to the effect. I was more amused by that than by the actual content of the lyrics, frankly.

[CC Ricers]

It's not bad, but it's still not "Rhymes With Elixir" in my opinion.

[Josh Whelchel]

I can understand if people don't like the song because of the vulgarity, but that shouldn't be a criteria for us rejecting this, just as we shouldn't be rejecting a song because we don't like its genre. It's not like this is too out there, anyhow - you get the same lyrical content in every third Ludacris song.

It isn't the vulgarity, it's the laziness - and I agree about everything else you've said - except this is the equivalent of having someone with a really great sounding track but an AWFULLY recorded lead guitar or keyboard. 99% of the time I'm pretty sure that's grounds for at, the very least, a resub - but here we're looking at poor execution. As vulgar as Ludacris is, he's got execution.

Part of me is simply arguing for the sake of voicing a strong opinion, this doesn't detract from my respect for the artists involved or anything quite like that - it really just is a matter of standards that are clearly not in place for this genre, and this is an awful place to set the bar. Life goes on (:

[zircon]

I don't think the vocal execution is "poor." It's not the greatest, but it fits the spirit of the song. We've let live orchestral/band mixes pass that also don't have the greatest execution. Nor are the lyrics all that lazy... just profane, and worth a chuckle.

[Abadoss]

I actually, legitimately think it would have been preferable for it to go through the panel, just so the haters had some additional perspectives on why it made it through when other more "serious" mixes are rejected, etc., and also because it sets a new precedent in terms of obscene material. By the same token, I didn't find direct-posting it hugely problematic, either, as it was bound to be polarizing regardless.

Also, http://ocremix.org/remix/OCR01424/ - more by The Crakaz, with smarter lyrics.

Maybe this isn't the best place to suggest this, but, djp, this is your site after all. Perhaps you should work in the ability to bounce a direct post nominee back to the judges panel if need be. This would be for the rare cases, like this, when a controversal song that may meet the standards needs the extra perspectives you were talking about in order to seem legitimate. Or if someone dropped the ball somewhere, by some aweful fluke.

[Theophany]

I feel like weighing in here because I'm interested in the debate. i hope the day never comes when this community becomes so official that inside jokes and completely vulgar video game remixes can't be posted to the front page. i think people should never forget we're remixing video game music, for fun, for ourselves and for fans who enjoy hearing said tunes remixed. in my opinion, it's important to keep this community free and open when it comes to style and taste. sometimes you get emotive, dark remixes, sometimes you get amazing trance mixes, sometimes you get jazz, sometimes you get happy uplifting remixes, and sometimes you get joke mixes. that's the nature of ocr, and i was glad to see something like this get posted. it's a joke, and jokes are always a matter of taste. people in this community who are trying to make the standards more rigorous and move the site towards being more official than it already is are really, to some extent, ruining what draws people to this community: the fact that there is something here for everyone, and that anyone can make a remix. and if it's creative enough and has decent production values, they can get it passed by the panel or direct posted. my personal view is that since joke mixes are jokes, i don't mind them being held to a lower production standard. the same courtesy is extended to people who submit truly creative arrangements but lack production value. that seems fair to me.

tldr; i am absolutely against implementing any standards limiting what kind of content lyrics can have, be it vulgarity or "only game-related lyrics" or anything else of the kind. creative freedom and style are what make this community great. the same production leniency that is extended to ambitious or truly creative arrangements should also be extended to joke remixes, because they are by very nature a joke... and at times lower production values are desirable for the cheesy factor or as a signature style.

[RDX]

So uhh, to the people who are acting like the folks who dislike this song are flipping out about it, do you wanna quote some posts of people getting totally offended by the lyrical content?

Because most of the "This sucks" posts so far have been pretty polite and mostly objective (My post excluded but I'm not much of a musician anyway so I have no idea what a 'production' is).

It's all about taste, really. That being said, don't mock those of us who don't like this when none of us have said anything totally wild and crazy. Not that it's hurtin mah feelings or anything, but we need some mutual respect goin on up in this joint.

[Josh Whelchel]

I feel like weighing in here because I'm interested in the debate. i hope the day never comes when this community becomes so official that inside jokes and completely vulgar video game remixes can't be posted to the front page. i think people should never forget we're remixing video game music, for fun, for ourselves and for fans who enjoy hearing said tunes remixed. in my opinion, it's important to keep this community free and open when it comes to style and taste.

This is an incredible point that I entirely agree with - at the same time, with such high standards across the board I most definitely believe it should be held to lyrical content. If you let that slide then why shouldn't joke remixes also be allowed, and this immediately comes to mind (granted, I get the production, arrangement, etc and stuff is way subpar, I'm just making a point).

I'm not trying to make too serious an ordeal and detract from what you've suggested - that we do this for fun, ourselves, and for people who appreciate the music. That's a pretty strong point, but I still have to sit on my side of the grumpy fence on this one, as it more subtracts from the genre in the way its presented, saying: "hey we can do this too," and then doing it poorly, or as a joke (as you've suggested), is an awful way to start.

I think my argument is more that Lyrics -are- a part of arrangement, and should be a serious factor in the evaluation of any piece of music.

[joe_cam]

This thread is gold!

I know not everybody would like this, and I honestly submitted it knowing the profane lyrics could be an issue, but thankfully the people in charge see this mix for what it is: fun.

This isn't an inside joke and it's not a dig (sarcastic or not) at anyone or anything. We were at the BBQ, were talking about the FFIV remix project with varying opinions and decided to do our own remix. Think of it as our submission if we were ever asked. Then we picked a subject. Since it's the BBQ and people drink a lot, we wrote about alcohol and getting REALLY fucked up. Think of it as a MAGFest song as well, you know, unless you're one of those people who goes to MAGFest just to play video games and not to hang out with friends and party for 4 days.

Are we the best rappers on the planet? No way. Never claimed to be. I figured that is kind of forcefully made apparent with how over the top I was in the first verse. Second guy, Pappy, isn't a rapper at all. He even sings like a girl. It took him like 10 takes to even sound that decent. If you don't like Flik in the third verse, I think you're just a terrible person. My opinion, but how can you NOT like Flik asking you to sit on his dick?

To the people who get it, enjoy it or just accept it whether they liked it or not: Thanks. Thanks for "getting" that we're just a bunch of people hanging out at a BBQ having some fun and making some damn fine music with some over the top lyrics.

To everybody else, and I've read all the comments so far: Either don't download a song listed as profane and then act shocked at the profanity, or don't download rap. If you hated it for the lyrics in general, that's cool. No harm done. Everybody has their opinions. Thanks for at least checking it out.

And DJP, come on. We were PLENTY profane in Da Black Market. I mean, sure it wasn't this bad, but Black Market is the song that got me hate mail saying I ruined the entire Bound Together project by having "Ness" say fuck in that song. You can't ignore the profaneness of that song and jump right back to Niggaz 4 Life!

[Brandon Strader]

The short and skinny of it is that the production is incredibly weak, especially for rap, which shifts the focus to the vocals which, as people have mentioned, are subpar and lazy. As a result, this mix should not have been DPed. It probably shouldn't have even passed the panel. Listen to any rap song on the radio today, then listen to this one. Ok, you got drunk at a bbq, we get it, that doesn't excuse such incomplete production on arguably the easiest genre that people do around here.

[Flik]

I think it's cute when Brandon tries to sound all serious and producer like